Mtn Lion "kitten" shot near school,causes outrage in CA

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gunsmith

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Aww,isn't it cute? it must have wanted to play with the kids.
http://morganhilltimes.com/news/newsview.asp?c=99908
Mountain lion cubs invade neighborhood

Friday, March 12, 2004

By Carol Holzgrafe
Morgan Hill Police found themselves under fire from some quarters this week after officers shot and killed a 6-month-old mountain lion hiding in a back yard. People from as far away as San Francisco phoned or e-mailed the MHPD and this newspaper, calling police “animal killers†and worse.

One other lion was tranquilized and captured for later release in the hills west of he city; a third escaped onto Llagas Road at Hale Avenue and was hit by a car and killed.

Police said they were justified in shooting the cat because it had turned aggressive and was threatening the public. They were fully backed up by officials from California Fish and Game, the state’s wildlife protection and management agency.

Fish and Game warden John Norris said he had debriefed the officers involved and absolutely agreed that they had followed the required protocol. It has been against the law for the public to hunt the lions in California since Jan. 1, 1990; law enforcement officers operate under different, though real, rules.

“Determining public safety is up to the individual officer,†Norris said. “Any threat on any level is justified, though every situation is different. This cat was between two occupied houses, it was near the school and there were three lions, not just one that is more usual.â€

Norris said he is convinced officers exercised the best judgment they could given the circumstances.

MHPD Lt. Joe Sampson said most people who called were satisfied once it was explained that the lions were large enough to cause damage.

“Once they understood these were not cute, cuddly kittens but teenagers they agreed it was a reasonable action,†Sampson said.

The state rules for legally killing mountain lions are strict.

Lt. Dave Fox of the state Department of Fish and Game arrived from Monterey to offer what help he could.

“In order to kill, it must be declared a public safety threat,†Fox said. “These officers made an attempt to tranquilize the animal first.â€

Fox, who was on the scene early and handled the release that night of the one surviving mountain lion, said education is a big part of his job, allaying the public’s fears that the lions pose a huge threat.

“Mountain lions are not man eaters,†Fox said, “but they do have to kill to eat.â€

Usually, the lions dine on deer, rabbits, raccoons and the smaller animals, like house cats that are allowed out. Seldom, he said, do they become aggressive around people.

The problem, Fox said, is that the lion population is getting too big to manage. Since Proposition 117 went into effect Jan. 1, 1990 - it banned mountain lion hunting in California - there is nothing left to reduce the numbers.

“The Mountain Lion Foundation, the group that pushed for 117, thought the presence of an adult male lion in a territory would keep the numbers down because males tend to kill cubs, but not even that is enough. People tend to freak out about the danger; others want to put limits and restrictions on what we can do to manage the animals. You can’t win,†he said. “We have reached ‘caring capacity.’ â€

Another result of Prop. 117, Fox said, was the disappearance of any lion-related budget.

“We have no money to study the situation,†he said. “The law has tied our hands.â€

Norris agreed with Fox but added that spreading residential development into the foothills shrinks mountain lion territory and causes the dominant animals to push the younger, weaker ones out.

“We’ve had to “depredate†young cubs or older lions on ranches when they were looking at livestock rather than deer,†Norris said.

There is no shortage of lions in the state, he said,

It is not only mountain lion behavior that is changed by encroaching civilization, Norris said.

“Bobcats, coyotes and other predators have less area to roam in and there has been a bit of a rise in the population,†he said.

The residential subdivision where the mountain lions were discovered is approximately 20 years old.

The back yards of the two homes were the mountain lions were immediately behind Shadow Mountain Church and School.

Some of land in the area west of Hale remains in open space.
 
See, here is another example of folks who fail to think "outside of the box"!
They should have tranquilized the beastie, then set it loose to roam the halls. Making sure the little B$$$$$$S stay in class!
:p

We seem to be having quite the mountain lion "problem" this year in CA. I wonder if there was a really good breeding season, or if this is simply the "soup de jour" for the media this year, like child snatching was last year?
 
Fjolnirsson, you may be on to something there... A child "snatching" problem last year, and a mountain lion problem this year? Anyone see a connection? :p
 
“We have reached ‘caring capacity.’ â€

What journalism school did this bozo graduate from? It's called CARRYING Capacity -- the number of a certain species that a given piece of land can sustain. I don't even know what "caring" capacity is -- but I'm sure some eco terrorist could use this as "proof" of the officer's "cruelty." I can hear it now "how can you place limits on caring??!!"

Someone needs to remind this journalists that spelling counts.
 
Anyone here read the Beast in the Garden, by David Baron?
these folks will learn just like the folks in Boulder, CO.
 
The one that was "tranquilized and captured for later release" should be set free in the back yards of those complaining about "animal killers" .

:evil:

Methinks that would end some of that noise in short order.



p.s. That is a much larger "kitty" than I would EVER want to play with....
 
I think its awful that the lion had to be put down.

We have waaaaaaaay too many damn people in this state, and unfortunately, its growing everyday. :mad:

This is a perfect example of the mental disorder that is leftism; kill the mountain lion, and you are no better than satan himself.

Leave the lion alone, and after it mauls a few leftist kiddies, you are an incompetent and irresponsible imbecile.

*sigh*

:rolleyes:
 
Caring Capacity : A dangerous excess, created and enforced by "caring" legislation, or perhaps the point at which even the soft headed begin to notice that there is a problem.
 
thanks wolf and coyote

you know that spray that gets on yer screen after ya laugh?
thanks to you guys I gotta wipe it off ;-)
 
We seem to be having quite the mountain lion "problem" this year in CA. I wonder if there was a really good breeding season,


I haven't heard anything about it, but I wonder if all of our recent fires (which burned I dont know how many millions of acres of forest) pushed more mountain lions towards towns in search of food. Just speculation.
 
MHPD Lt. Joe Sampson said most people who called were satisfied once it was explained that the lions were large enough to cause damage.

“Once they understood these were not cute, cuddly kittens but teenagers they agreed it was a reasonable action,†Sampson said.

Sounds like a lot of people were going off half cocked.
 
Cougars and Yotes

For what it's worth, I consider a small pack of Coyotes to be a greater
danger than a Mountain Lion/Cougar/Puma/, etc. The cats are actually
shy and prefer retreat to confrontation 99.9% of the time. You can walk within striking distance of a grown Mountain Lion and never know he's there. Coyotes will kill because they're bored.

That being said, if I were to discover a Catamount of that size between
my house and my neighbor's and close to an elementary school to boot, I'm afraid it'd be a clear case of Kitty-Kitty, Bang-Bang...state regulations be damned. I love the cats, and wish them well, but that doesn't mean
that I'm willing to let one chew on me or mine just to prove it.

Just my 2% of a buck...

Tuner
 
1911, a jogger in Idaho Springs, a jogger in Roxborough Park, a little boy in Rocky Mountain National Park, and a little girl in Mesa Verde National Park were all attacked by lions in CO. All but the jogger in Idaho Springs were within the last 5 years. The first two were killed. I suspect I've missed some and these are ONLY in Colorado.

I've not heard of any (non rabid) coyote attacks on humans.
 
Attacks

Howdy org,

As with all wild animals, anything can happen, and nothing is absolute.
I guess that could apply to people too...so we're not all that much different.

I've watched a pair of mountain lions watching hikers up on Pilot Mountain
with nothing more than detached curiosity...and I've watched packs of
Coyotes around Sparta, NC rip a deer apart and walk away from the carcass. I've never heard of any of them attacking people either, but
as noted...anything is subject to happen. Incidentally, when the two cats realized that they'd been spotted, they slipped away like a wisp of smoke.
You think a Whitetail deer moves silently? Check out a Hill Kitty sometime.

The biggest factor in any of this is the slow but steady abutment of
our respective territories/population increase, and the resultant higher
liklihood of encounter. 25 years ago, a cat track on the mountain would
have made the Mt. Airy newspaper. Now, sightings are pretty commonplace. I can't count the times that I've discovered that a lion
was stalking the same deer that I was, and we weren't 5 minutes apart.

Coyote reports are increasing in populated areas around Alleghany and
Watauga(NC) Counties, and Grayson County, Virginia...so it's probably just a matter of time before we have a Yote incident.

One thing that differs greatly between the NC hills and Silly-Fornia...(No
disrespect to the good people of that state) Let one person be attacked, and the NC Fish and Game Commission will issue culling permits at any time
of the year. Bet on that. The officers keep a close watch on the cats, and
investigate every sighting that's anywhere within 10 miles of a built-up area.

If these people who sound the drums of animal rights could be made to
understand that the populations would be much healthier and far less
dangerous if they were managed through controlled hunting seasons,
we...and the critters would be in a much better situation.

Oh yeah...Pilot Mountain is probably better known as Mount Pilot...Deputy
Barney Fife's favorite night spot...and Mt. Airy is Andy Griffith's hometown
and real-life model for the Town of Mayberry....and there really is a
Floyd's Barber Shop there.

Good thread. Hope some of the bambists and Green Peacers are monitoring.

Luck!

Tuner
 
durn teenagers

“Once they understood these were not cute, cuddly kittens but teenagers they agreed it was a reasonable action,†Sampson said.
:cool:

I think cougars are cool,I admire their stealth,strength and cute factor.
I would love to raise one and keep it as a pet (if it was possible,I have no idea) However if one was stalking me and I was lucky enough to see it before it attacked,I'd shoot.

If more people are attacked maybe there will be a change of opinion about legal carrying of firearms. Maybe:rolleyes:
 
“Mountain lions are not man eaters,†Fox said, “but they do have to kill to eat.â€

Brings to mind the story about the young man in Colorado jogging around his high school between classes. He used to wave through the windows at his friends as he ran by.
Went around once, then no one saw him come by the second time as usual.

IIRC, after he missed classes for several days he was marked down as a truant, and there was discussion of him being a runaway.
They found his body a few days later near the school, and they found the cat that killed and ate him.
It was still near his remains and was threatening the searchers when they found the young man. The cat was later killed by a sheriff's deputy, again IIRC. It's been awhile since I read the article.

The aricle was quite an interesting read, all about the growing problem of mountain lions and people coming into more frequent contact
 
Sitting here in the Midwest I wonder why the bleeding hearts in California cannot keep the mountain inhabitants in harmony with the environment.

Shouldn't the feel-and-do-gooders take the Mountain Lion aside, place it in Timeout, and explain to the Mountain Lion why it isn't nice to exert themselves on small children, and do this in a caring and considerate way?

Perhaps 50 hours of community service for the Mountain Lion could place the lion on the way to self-rehabilitation and it's proper place in society.

It's just not fair for the Mountain Lions. Someone has to speak for the Mountain Lions!

Ha. I'm with 1911Tuner. Kitty-Kitty Bang-Bang.
 
A dismaying increasing number of our Lower West Coast urbanites seem to forget that humans are still considered to be within Nature's Food Chain by many of the other occupants of our planet ...

Act accordingly ... or don't be surprised when part of Nature follows the inclination of Nature ...

Some folks just don't seem to appreciate that wild animals, especially wild carnivorous animals, are exactly that ... and even some "domesticated" animals can become "feral".

Wild animals are unpredictable ... in some respects. They ARE wild animals.

A friend of mine who lives in a rural area was surprised when his wife told him some mountain lion kittens had been playing at their screen door. He told her trying to feed them was a bad idea. :uhoh: She thought they were cute and harmless.

While my friend was away from the house one day, his wife discovered that mama lion wasn't as far away from the cubs as she apparently thought, and was somewhat protective of her cubs. Fortunately, mama lion was smart enough to take the cubs and go away from the house ... before "someone" got hurt ...
 
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Gunsmith -

I think they can be reasonably well tamed, probably not adults taken from the wild though. People used to keep them as pets over here before some laws changed.

Sounds like a reasonable shooting and plenty of unreasonable reactions from callers to the police station.
 
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