Must an AOW be a "Firearm"?

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SageMonkey

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
124
I was wondering, and searched a few forums without finding a satisfactory answer, if an AOW must be a firearm, or could it also be a non-firearm weapon under federal law.

I do know that a machine gun would still be a machine gun if it were a black powder muzzle-loader for the NFA.

But, a blunderbuss is NOT an SBS under the NFA because it can not fire fixed ammunition.

Would a cane-gun not capable of firing fixed ammunition (ie, it is a muzzle-loader) be classified as an AOW, or would it escape regulation under the NFA?

What about a pistol sized weapon, say an NAA Companion in a full wallet holster, would that require registration under the NFA?

Thanks in advance. I did read the text of the NFA, but IANAL and can't really decipher all possible connotations. Citations, atf letters, etc on this matter would be much appreciated!
 
An AOW is a firearm.

Wallet holsters I think are AOWs when used with the gun. I read some statement that if it conceals the fact that it's a firearm from normal view, it's an AOW, such as a cane gun. Looks like a cane, not a gun, but is a gun=AOW.
 
Would a cane-gun not capable of firing fixed ammunition (ie, it is a muzzle-loader) be classified as an AOW, or would it escape regulation under the NFA?

What about a pistol sized weapon, say an NAA Companion in a full wallet holster, would that require registration under the NFA?
Click to expand...

Neither would be NFA items, and there are many examples of "concealed" muzzleloading weapons such as soda-bottle pistols.

freakshow10mm

Remember - muzzleloaders are exempt from NFA. A muzzle-loading cane gun is NOT an AOW.
 
That's because the ammunition isn't fixed (ie cartridge). They are also exempt from GCA.

I think the wallet holster is if the gun can be fired while in the holster.
 
You're correct re:wallet holster for cartridge arms... but! The NAA companion is a cap and ball revolver. ;)
 
bogie

Why's that? I carried a loaded NAA companion for two years before I fired it. All five shot fine. :)

Care in loading creates a watertight gun. There have been examples of loaded BP guns fired well over 50 years after loading (and some have been stored in abysmal conditions).
 
You can do a lot of stuff with "antiques" you can't do without the NFA hassle on a modern gun. Machine guns are an exception (otherwise everyone would be taking any pre-1899 receiver and building a MG off it).
 
Ok, wonderful. So what I am hearing is that machine guns are the only exception- that is to say that the nfa does not otherwise regulate a weapon not using fixed ammunition.

That certainly makes something like the NAA Companion very very tempting. I have always loved "gadget guns", but would never want to deal with the paperwork bs to go nfa. I bet some pretty interesting things could be done with one.
 
Thats the thing, I am not certain I do understand the definition of "antique" within the nfa, nor the definition of an AOW.

I might be able to read those definitions to say that I could only design a new disguised gun if it were muzzleloading and intended to be fired from the shoulder- but that if the design was from prior to 1899 then it would be ok even if not shoulder fired. Howeverm I can also read it as saying that a pistol with a rifled bore can not be an AOW, and that any weapon with a matchlock, cap or flintlock ignition system is an antique regardless.

So, basically it's clear as mud to to which is why I am asking here.
 
Neither would be NFA items, and there are many examples of "concealed" muzzleloading weapons such as soda-bottle pistols.

freakshow10mm

Remember - muzzleloaders are exempt from NFA. A muzzle-loading cane gun is NOT an AOW.
Click to expand...

I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that an NAA Companion with a wallet holster is an AOW. I can explain more later, but I have it in writing from ATF Firearms Tech Branch. It was a project I was thinking about at one point- but since tax would still be remitted, it would be stupid to Form 1 a BP pistol when you could do a rimfire for the same expense.
 
In addition to the "wallet holsters" which allow the contained gun to be fired without removing them, things like the "operational briefcase" for MACs and the MP5K are also considered AOWs.
 
Might need to register a sweatshirt someday...
or a purse.

Some THR member had stated before:
"They're going to legislate us to high heaven, whether we want to go or not."
 
mp510- I would greatly appreciate a copy of that letter.

I would like to know where and why they draw such a line. I have seen a reproduction matchlock "key-gun" kit and wonder why that is legal (still on market through reputable channels) vs a Companion. Is it age of the design, BATFE whim, or what?
 
I would like to know where and why they draw such a line. I have seen a reproduction matchlock "key-gun" kit and wonder why that is legal (still on market through reputable channels) vs a Companion. Is it age of the design, BATFE whim, or what?
Click to expand...

The matchlock key pistols I have seen were all sold in kit form. I have never seen a completed one, nor an ATF letter regarding those. However, this would not be the first time that ATF has claimed that a muzzleloading 'disguised firearm' was an AOW- you may remember Kowalski Credit Card shotgun. The rationale had to do with it being an item that does not look like a firearm, though it fired a projectile by explosive force, or somesuch. I'll send you a scan of the letter Friday afternoon.;)
 
Doesn't matter what their letters say, caselaw isn't on their side, nor is the actual wording of the law. :)
 
So a double barrel blacpowder shotgun cut to 10" is 100 percent legal and papwerwork free? Very nice. I guess I had forgotten that part of the NFA regs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

N
  • Locked
Homemade SBS without tax stamp
Replies
21
Views
3K
GoWolfpack
G
T
  • Locked
What makes a various gun fall into its catagory?
Replies
15
Views
1K
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
K
  • Locked
Forward pistol grips on pistols, is the atf wrong?
2
Replies
25
Views
3K
F-111 John
F-111 John
P
  • Locked
AOW... Remington 870
Replies
9
Views
989
wdlsguy
W
G
  • Locked
Legality of making your own firearm? (VT and federal)
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
Back
Top