Muzzle Flash and night sights

[Rupestris]

I do not use night sights and, right now, have no intention of using them.

While at Cabelas last week, I was waiting at the gun counter for service. While waiting I listened in on a conversation between a clerk and a customer who was looking at a Kimber (tactical IIRC)with the meprosights.

The sales man told him that night sights were only usefull for the first shot. After that the muzzle flash renders them useless due to night blindness.
Is this true?
I know the type of handgun, barrel length and/or caliber and type of ammo play a role in how bright the muzzle flash is?

for arguments sake lets stick to 4" 9mm's and 5" .45's running factory loads (not +P). Those seem to be the most popular candidates for night sights. Mepro, TruGlo, Trijcon or otherwise.
Chris

 

[sm]

I don't have nightsights on any firearm either, not planning on it.

My eyes are not as young as they used to be either.

I have used 1911's with them in low light and no light. Typical me, I find out real fast if one gets into muddy situations...nightsights do not work covered up in mud. Oh yeah the stage was set up for everyday stuff, I take ditch for cover ( simulated parking lot dealie) and oh yeah, the water had been filled with water...

So wipe them off to proceed. Great now I gotta "plop down" in the dirt, and shoot back over my head...mud jumps up and onto the nightsights.

I went back to MY 1911 and K frame for the rest of the evening. Mud didn't seem to affect these...

The other thing that got me..."bang your hit" - Huh?
SO - "hey man, I just took a bead on your nightsights and fired...."

I made a note to self on that experience. double check that blind spot ...see the SO was 45* behind me, a second BG "could be" hiding and jsut take a shot using my nightsights or a flashlight. I thought no way. yep, sure enough I swapped places...looked like a lighting bug...

 

[Chris H]

No

To answer your question, no muzzel flash will not bother your eyes enough to block out NS. I have 1 pistol w/night sights and I shot it when it was pitch black outside to see how I could do with it. Answer, not well, but I could see the sights just not the target. I think night sights are useless, but I won't get into that here.

 

[Chipperman]

I have done a lot of low-light tactical shooting, both with and without night sites. IMO, they are very helpful, and no they do not become useless after you shoot the gun.

If it's dark enough that you cannot see the target, then you should not shoot it. (..what was that Rule again?). That's when you employ a tactical light.
And no, the tactical light does not negate the value of night sites either; if used properly.

 

[MrMurphy]

What Chipperman said.... i've shot a night fire course with my night sights and still saw them after a magazine full.

 

[Jim K]

I guess you folks are talking only about .45 pistols, but I have shot some at night and I will guarantee you that when you touch off a short barrel rifle or a hot loaded handgun you won't see much of anything for a while.

The worst I can recall was a British Rifle No. 5 (Jungle Carbine) with the flash hider removed and using Mk VII Cordite ammo. The ball of red, blue, purple and orange fire was a good 2 feet in diameter and 3 feet long. I could not have used night sights or any other kind of sights after that. A .44 Magnum is not a lot better from a night vision viewpoint, but the fireball is smaller.

Jim

 

[VG]

I went to the three day Sigarms Academy "Armed Citizen" CCW course in Epping, NH. The facility is superb. The course was uniformly excellent and I recommend it.

They make the point that 70-80% of all assaults are in low light situations. We spent half a day or more firing in low visibility at ranges of 5-15 yards at metal silhoutte targets using sintered ammo. The targets are spray painted so you can see your hits.

I was able to fire a P239 [.357 SIG] with night sights, as well as my P220 [.45 ACP] and S&W CS9, which did not have them at the time. The night sights make it much easier to align your sights and hit the target, even on successive rounds and even with a short barreled pistol like the P239, which has more muzzle flash than a bigger pistol, as a general rule. And this is shooting at flat black targets on a black background in light that ranged from twilight to urban street.

Without night sights, a lot of people flat missed the target. With night sights, they mostly hit the target, or hit the target closer to center mass. This was true for the instructor; for a very seasoned IDPA shooter who was the best shot in the class; and for some folks in the class who had not previously received any formal instruction and were thus not very good markspeople.

Please note that some of the Law Enforcement Officers and others that routinely receive training in low-light scenarios seem to concur. They have traiining designed to make sure they don't shoot us citizens, but do shoot people trying to kill them, and their training is intensive enough to hold up in court.

Please note also that the P11 pistol [SIG P229] purchased by the Army for undercover use also has night sights. The manufacturers of such sights, and every firearm manufacturer, can give you similar empirical data.

At an indoor range you can see the difference in th amount of muzzle flash generated by your ammo, even though it's not that dark. Better ammunition tends to have less muzzle flash than the cheaper plinking or target grades. For some reason I found PMC to have the worst flash, while the various Federal defense rounds have much less, all other things being equal.

My conclusion is that if you are serious about protecting yourself or your family with a pistol used for CCW or home defense, you are very much more likely to hit your target - on the first round fired and successive rounds - with night sights. I'd put night sights above pistol, caliber, or "tactical" flashlight in order of importance for such use.

 

[tlhelmer]

My dept. qualification course includes two night fires and I usually make it to the range at night at least one additional time each summer. You do lose the sights after a muzzle blast, but it comes back fairly quickly.

I did notice that I tend to hit a little high at night, head and shoulder area.

Try a night fire exercise. Include the use of flashlights and cyalume sticks and you get an additional experience that you will enjoy.

 

[nhhillbilly]

Defensive use

For defensive use I strongly urge night sights. I run a bunch of people through dim light training each year and those with night sights do much better then those with out. The muzzle flash doesn't not wash out the night sight on a handgun. I have use them on 9mm, 40 SW, 45 ACP. I have not used them on 357 mag..


Another advantage of night sights being able to locate your handgun at 0300 hours when the front door bell rings with out turning on lights.

 

[jojo]

My experience is very minimal comparitively, but I concur that the muzzle blast does not wash out the night sites (at least for more than a few seconds).
I had a Glock 21 with nite sites and shot several times at night, mainly just to get used to using the sights in low light, and not thinking about the flash.
I dont miss the Glock, at least the Mod 21, but do wish I had the nite sights on my other 45.

jojo