My 1892 41 Colt DA has returned from the smiths.

[Jesse Heywood]

My baby was returned from the Colt smiths this weekend. I am pleased as punch with the work performed by Spartan. Now I need to locate some dies and components to start making ammo to see how this old gal shoots. Thanks to Len & Brian for the TLC.

I wanted to send you a note to let you know your gun is finished and working great. Items completed are as follows:

-Fully cleaned inside and out to include sonic cleaning
-Corrected headspace
-Reduced tension on main spring to improve trigger pull (it was very heavy when it first came in)
-Adjusted hand to correct a malfunction in gauging (cylinder would not rotate on every chamber)
-Properly oiled each friction point per factory specifications

I respectfully request payment prior to shipping as I have been taken advantage of in the past when I have sent out the gun before getting paid. The cost for the cleaning and repairs is $100 per Leonard's prior email. I accept cash, check, money order or with a credit card via PayPal (online). If you choose to pay with a credit card through PayPal, just confirm your email address you have set up with PayPal and I will send you an invoice.

Thank you for your business and feel free to reach out if you have any further questions!


Semper Fi!

Brian P. Czubak
Spartan Firearm Company, LLC
517-599-3858
[email protected]

Spartan Firearm Company is a Veteran Owned Small Business specializing in the service and repair of all prewar Colt double and single action revolvers. Colt customer service is referring repair for pre-1968 Colt revolvers to our facility.



Len

Thanks for the write up. Go ahead and do the work on the action to make
the gun so it can be fired.


On 3/7/2019 10:23 AM, Brian P. Czubak wrote:

After our conversation I wanted to be sure I explained myself clearly and the best way to memorialize our conversation is this e-mail. You have a great collector's Colt. They did not make many of these. Yours is especially interesting because of its great condition, the .41 caliber, and the fact that the frame is that of an 1892 Colt as it has the cut outs in the frame for the cylinder bolt of the 1892. Colt was using up their 1889 stock of parts and transitioning to the 1892 but had exhausted their supply of 1889 frames and therefore built your revolver the 1892 frame. All your assembly numbers match and the serial number is during the year of transition to the 1892. A very nice piece. I do not believe your Colt was fired much if at all. The condition of the bores and cylinders is exceptional and I do not believe the sideplate has ever been off your gun. I understand your issue with the cylinder that when the hammer and trigger are at rest it turns slightly counterclockwise as there is no locking bolt to hold it in place. That is however how the revolver was made. The tension of the hand spring prevents it from turning completely to another chamber. This looseness is why the 1889 was only made for approximately 2.5 to 3 years. Where does that leave us? You can leave it exactly like it is because other than that looseness in the cylinder when at rest, it gauges perfectly when in firing mode, that is when the trigger is pulled and the hammer is forward to strike the primer. In the firing position the barrel plug, (ranging rod) shows the barrel and cylinder to be in perfect alignment and tight. Your Colt is very close in timing and condition as when it left the factory. If you plan to shoot it I recommend shooting it only with black powder. This revolver was made and proved for black powder only. Shooting modern .41 caliber ammunition with smokeless powder could damage the revolver and possibly injure you. If you plan to fire it with black powder I suggest you authorize me to take it apart, clean it and lubricate the action. I noticed the cylinder has some endshake on the crane barrel. This is a headspace issue. I can correct that headspace which will reduce the cylinder looseness somewhat. To take it apart, clean it and tighten the headspace will cost $100.00 or less depending on the time. If however you do not plan to fire it I advise you to leave it like it is as a great collector's piece. If you decide to leave it like it is there is no charge for the inspection. In any event let me know what you would like me to do and how you would like it returned to you. Best regards, Len

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Very cool, though I personally wouldnt shoot it much. I had to fabricate most of the little leaf springs for my '94 New Army ( along with replacing the hand and bolt) and I judging by the overall excellent condition of mine, I dont think it took many .38 Long Colt rounds to wear it out.

Glad you like yours, but I found mine just too fragile and eventually passed it on. Your gunsmith sounds like a straight shooter, though, kudos!

 

[ATCDoktor]

I have a similar revolver (Colt M1892) in 41 Long Colt that was made around 1898.

As you can see, mine has been reblued at some point in its life and I picked it up fairly cheap (around $200.00).



I have fired mine “some” with Winchester Lubaloy 41 LC factory loads (waaaay to hot for this frame) and my handloads (black powder and smokeless) and I would heed your gunsmiths advice reference using black powder only in your gun (my smokeless loads using IMR trail boss powder unnecessarily beat on the gun).

Factory 41 LC smokeless ammo with heel based bullets (Quality Cartridge Company I believe is the name of the company that makes the ammo) are extremely light loads and I feel are safe your this frame. Bullet weight for these loads was about 165 grains and my labradar chrono showed velocities of approximately 500 FPS in my gun (these loads were fairly accurate in my gun).

My handloads were accurate as well, but using a 200 grain hollow-based bullet and enough powder to get the bullet base to “expand” to grip the rifling (to prevent key holing and provide any sort of accuracy) I had to load them unacceptably warm for this frame (approximately 700-725 FPS).

That said, it would shoot very well with my handloads (especially for a gun using a .386 diameter bullet in a .401 diameter bore).

6 shots at 15 yards (single action)



I use Redding 41 LC dies and a 38 special shell holder for my Starline brass. My original Winchester 41 LC bass is too “fat” at the base to fit in a 38 special shell holder and use a 7.62X39 shell holder for those.

EDITED TO ADD:

Rooting around in the ammo locker I found this box of Factory ammo I was using:

Precision Cartiridge Inc is the name of the company (not Quality Cartridge as previously stated) Bullet weight is listed as 200 grain vice 165 as previously stated as well.





My Chrono records show the speeds were fairly slow as previously stated (around 500 fps).

I picked this ammo up at a local Gunshow (before I even had a gun chambered in 41LC) the guy was blowing it out at 30 bucks a box and having had a childhood fascination with the 41LC I couldn’t pass up the bargain.

If your going to shoot your 1892 and you want to try some factory loads these are the ones I’d get.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks to all above. I have a 41 DA that looks just like the OP's but with less finish. Sounds like those smiths are straight shooters. Mine has a loose crane so I haven't shot it or tried to load for it.

I'm surprised that trail boss is too warm for these. A case full of black powder would seem to be much more powerful than the TB loads I've shot in other calibers.

 

[ATCDoktor]

I'm surprised that trail boss is too warm for these.

When used in doses/charges oriented to get the bullet out of the barrel with enough oomph to hit the target, it is quite safe.

When using charge weights oriented to get a commercial (soft cast) hollow based bullet to “upset” enough to grab the rifling (from .386 diameter to .401 diameter) and impart a spin, in my judgement, its beating these 1892’s too hard.

Black powder excels at soft lead bullet obturation and a case full in a 41 LC booms and flashes real big but is is fairly low pressure.

Trail Boss is a fairly fast burning powder with a whole different pressure curve that some people have confused with a black powder substitute because it “bulks” up in these old voluminous black powder cases.

Nothing could be further from reality when you start “pushing” the performance envelope (reference trail boss) to obtain desired performance (in my case bullet obturation to achieve accuracy).

My Colt Army Special in 41LC (circa 1912) on the other hand is strong enough to handle my somewhat “stiff” trail boss loads.





It too is quite a shooter when I do everything right reference handloading and shooting technique.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I'm surprised that trail boss is too warm for these. A case full of black powder would seem to be much more powerful than the TB loads I've shot in other calibers.

As was stated, Trail Boss is not, and was never intended to be a Black Powder Substitute.

It is a modern smokeless powder and has a much more rapid burning curve than Black Powder.

Trail Boss was designed to bulk up and fill the cavernous old Black Powder cartridge cases, such as 45 Colt, but it is not a Black Powder substitute, and the pressure curve exhibits much too sharp a spike to consider using it in old revolvers which may not have been made with modern steel and before cylinder heat treatment became common.

 

[1KPerDay]

I wasn't intending to imply that TB is a BP sub. I know it isn't and wouldn't use it as such. However they did make factory smokeless .41 Colt loads and I was wondering why they wouldn't be safe in a .41 New Army and Navy, and if they are, TB would certainly be appropriate. However I've never done it and I must take the word of those that have that it isn't suitable to obturate the hollow base sufficiently.

 

[ATCDoktor]

However they did make factory smokeless .41 Colt loads and I was wondering why they wouldn't be safe in a .41 New Army and Navy, and if they are, TB would certainly be appropriate

It is my firm belief that the reason the vast majority of these old 1892’s are out of “time”/exhibit lock up issues ( the two dozen or so I’ve handled anyway) is that they were fired with the smokeless powder loads of the day (that and the revolver design is somewhat frail from the get go).

The old Winchester Lubaloy 41 LC factory loads were fairly stout and the ones I chronographed were hitting right at 750 FPS.

Here’s one I broke down to see what the were loading in it:





It had about 4 “ ish” grains (you can see I spilled some pouring from the bullet puller into the pan for the scale) of some yellow corn meal looking powder in a ballon head case and a 200 grain copper washed hollow base bullet.

That powder burned slow as candle wax when I touched a match to it but drop the hammer on one in an 1892 and you will know they were too stout for the gun.