My armalite 180 may be moving on

[FL-NC]

I have a Costa Mesa 180 that has been a safe queen since I got it about 15 years ago. I got it because the price was right and I had always been intrigued by them. I guess I fired maybe 200-300 rounds out of it. Of course, you can only fire 55 grain 223- don't even think about a heavier round or 5.56. It does like 55 grain PMC. Also, mags aren't easy to get. I have 1 factory 40 and 2 thermolds. No optics, no replacement parts to speak of. For these reasons, I have been thinking about getting rid of it. If I'm going to have an older rifle of this type, I think I would rather have something like a Colt SP-1. At least i would have more versatility and the ability to fix it if I managed to break something. On the other hand, I have a modern AR or 2. Maybe I should sell it and put the $ towards something else?

 

[bannockburn]

FL-NC

I remember looking at an AR180 (not sure if it was a Costa Mesa or a Sterling built model), at the time when I was thinking about getting a Colt AR15 SP1. The prices of each them was the same and I did like gas piston design along with the folding stock feature of the AR180. But in comparing the two rifles side by side, the Colt AR15 felt more substantial and more solidly built than the AR 180 (I didn't care for the stamped metal construction and the forearm and buttstock just seemed like they were made out of some low grade plastic). And since I had already bought a lot of magazines and accessories for the AR15 that pretty much sealed the deal in favor of the AR15.

Let us know what you decide to do with your AR180.

 

[LoonWulf]

I'd actually never heard of those, had to go look around the web for a bit.
I like certain features of the design (I was looking at the 180b), and it's so homely it's cool looking, but I'd probably get out of it if you don't shoot it, and arnt keeping it as a collectible.

 

[Iggy]

One of those rode under the head rests in my Patrol car for 13 years. It had the desired effect when needed. It's still on duty in the corner next to my computer desk.

I converted M-16 magazines by cutting a notch in them to match them at the same locations as the ones in the Armalite magazines.. Worked perfectly.

 

[243winxb]

Had one in the 1980's. May still have parts list & 2 reprints of articles in Guns & Ammo. Guns long gone. Another reprint from Top Security International, dated June 1978. Armalite mailed them to me years ago. Armalite AR-180

 

[JeeperCreeper]

If you want a modern kinda-variant, there is the piston-driven Wolf A1 upper that is based off of the Taiwanese T91.

So you can have a similar rifle in spirit that you can actually shoot.

 

[Riomouse911]

A former buddy of mine (we lost touch years ago) had one in the early 1990's. He really liked it.

If you want to invest in something less rare, I'd say sell it and get yourself something you'll shoot more often.

Stay safe!

 

[FL-NC]

Had one in the 1980's. May still have parts list & 2 reprints of articles in Guns & Ammo. Guns long gone. Another reprint from Top Security International, dated June 1978. Armalite mailed them to me years ago. View attachment 791717 Armalite AR-180

Cool ad!

 

[AlexanderA]

I have a Costa Mesa and a Howa, both of which I bought new back in the day. (I got interested in the AR-180 during the hiatus when Colt had pulled the SP1 off the market.) When the Sterling-made version of the AR-180 came out, I considered buying one, just to complete the collection, but the build quality was obviously so much worse that I passed on it.

There are a lot of downsides to the AR-180. The fact that it uses proprietary magazines is one. My guns came with 2 20-round magazines each. Somewhere along the line I acquired a couple of Sterling-made 40 rounders. That's it. I've been looking for more factory magazines ever since, but they're either junkers, or too expensive. Yes, you can modify a STANAG magazine to work, but why ruin a perfectly good magazine?

Then there's the general fragility of the design, caused by the spot-welded sheet metal construction. For mounting optics, there's a spot-welded dovetail flange on the top of the receiver. A few years ago, I decided to put a Picatinny rail adapter on that flange, and I discovered that the flange on my Howa was grossly misaligned, and useless. (And the Howa is supposed to be the best-made of the bunch.)

The key advantages of the AR-180 over the AR-15 are supposed to be the piston gas system, and the side-folding stock. Both of those features are present in the Korean Daewoo K2, which also has forged construction and uses standard magazines. The Daewoo is head and shoulders better than the AR-180, and I wish I had bought more of them when I had the chance. Daewoos are available on the secondary market for about the same price as AR-180's.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Its like Dennis Prager says: if it doesn't bring you joy, let it go.

I was recently bummed when I sold off my Colt Diamondback. But, like the Ar180, it was quite valuable, its ammo choices were limited, and spare parts were hard to come by. It sat in the safe and didn't bring me joy, except to admire it visually. So a fella offered me a pile of cash and down the road it went.

I kid you not, the very next day I found one of my grail guns, an immaculate S&W M19 snubbie and flipped the Colt money into it with cash to spare.....joy restored!

Good luck, bro!

 

[FL-NC]

Well, someone decided he wanted it more than I did. Gave me this SA operator and $400 today at a gun show. I left right after the deal, because I can't be trusted in a gun show with $400 in disposable income. Decided to act like a grown up and put it towards tires on the truck before I slide into a ditch.

 

[carbine85]

Unless you need the money I would hang on to it. I bought mine years ago for $275. It's goes up in value every year. The mags are not a problem and is a simple issue to deal with. The gun isn't so delicate that you can't shoot it. The AR18 gas piston design has been copied by all the successful rifles. The only reason why it didn't become more successful was timing. A lot of improvements would have made their way into the rifle if the timing was better. It's not the most accurate and the trigger is horrible, but I still love the ugly rifle.

 

[kBob]

I bought my Sterling in 1977. It still gets used. Doctor Fackler and I did 100 yard shooting with Green tip from it at 100 meters when the ammo was just becoming available to see if stabilization was as big a deal as the press made it out to be. He actually shot some in a 1-14 twist barreled bolt action. The 1-14 rifle showed definite key holing but the 1-12 twisted AR-180 showed maybe one in ten maybe slightly key holed. I shoot mainly one form of M 193 ball or another in mine (even some Russian Steel) though back in the day my "carry" load was the Remington 55 grain SP .223.

The big issue with the Stirlings was that the action pins "walked". Never saw that in a Cosa Mesa, but saw it in several of the early Sterlings before they started using overly long trigger and hammer pins grooved on both ends and a C clip applied. Mine were peened in in 1978 and still holding. I took a Carbine Class with Bill Jeans some years ago with it and it did well alongside AR15s from 10.5 inch 'chine guns some feds were using to an ancient SP1 and everything in between.

I mounted a Single Point OES on it in 1978 and tried to interest folks in the idea of a red dot for military and police work and got roundly poo-pooed. Around that time I shot it under parachute flairs with the Single point to about 200 meters while moving and thought the poo-pooers just had no idea........ I also shot it under flashlight, six volt lantern, car headlights and cruiser spot light and folks were under whelmed as well, go figure.

About that time Blue Line and one of the other LE magazines had articles praising the guns and recommending them for back up rifles in patrol cars.

Indeed, magazines are the biggest stumbling block to keeping one running. For a bit RamLine made a magazine that sort of worked in the AR-180, AR15, and, remarkably, the Mini-14. They tended to not be drop free, but worked. My own bought when new worked for a couple of years, then after having been stored empty ten or more years no longer worked in anything. Federal whatever ( made all sorts of AR accessories) made magazines that worked in both AR15 and -180 in steel and those worked pretty well. I currently depend on one old Armalite marked black painted 20 rounder ( that came with a block in it, I seem to recall for ten rounds in 1977) and a number of AR-15 mags cut to use in the -180, some with the AR15 stop flattened to drop free and some not. I actually prefer the 20 rounders in both rifles and thanks to my miss spent youth and having experienced those mythical events first hand still only load them to 18 rounds and get called an idiot.

I managed to loose the take down pin, well actually I still have the pin but the ball detent and spring that was part of the pin rather than the rifle like on an AR15 went walk about and my rifle has spent the last 20 years being held together by one of the old Cold to everyone else conversion pins. So far no one at a shoot has recognized that pin as what it is or that it was not original equipment

Mine would be among the last to get offered for sale if I had to sell some guns.

-kBob

 

[CapnMac]

People seem to either adore or despise the AR-180. Definitely strong opinions, too.

The AR-18, particularly the AR-18B, looked very promising, other than skipping over the folding stock.

My experinece with the 180 was positive. The action was used for a number of very successful arms later on.

 

[FL-NC]

People seem to either adore or despise the AR-180. Definitely strong opinions, too.

The AR-18, particularly the AR-18B, looked very promising, other than skipping over the folding stock.

My experinece with the 180 was positive. The action was used for a number of very successful arms later on.

I got it around 2002 for $800. I bought it because I was always intrigued by them- at the time I was an instructor at the SF weapons school. I also knew I could always turn it around and not lose any money. I shot it some, and it reminded me of an old M16A1 without the BOING in my ear from the buffer. Anyhow, not having the ability to equip it like a modern rifle (optics, etc) and it not being what I consider a "classic military rifle), it just wasn't doing anything for me. I also knew that if I shot it and broke ANYTHING on it, I was screwed. So, a guy yesterday at the gun show HAD to have it. He traded me the slightly used Springfield Operator in the photo, and $400 cash. I'm 100% satisfied with the deal I made. I'll keep the operator, for now at least, and put new tires on my truck this week with the cash. I won't be keeping the truck much longer, so I'll likely be getting the cheapest tires Wal Mart has. If I decide to get rid of the Operator later, I'm sure that won't be too difficult to move at a reasonable price where I will still do fine. Much easier than moving the 180 SHOULD have been. In fact, I brought a stainless 700 5R in 308 to the gun show with the 180. The 5R is barely used, and includes a Larue base and Harris bipod, and is modestly priced. I really figured I would sell the 5R and the 180 would come home, but you never know.

 

[bannockburn]

FL-NC

I think you did alright with the trade and getting cash back as well. You got a decent gun in the deal and peace of mind knowing you can now get new tires for your truck. Win/Win outcome.

I think you done good at the gun show yesterday!

 

[AlexanderA]

I currently depend on one old Armalite marked black painted 20 rounder ( that came with a block in it, I seem to recall for ten rounds in 1977)

My AR-180 magazines (that came with the Costa Mesa and Howa guns) had U-shaped spring steel inserts to block them to 5 rounds, ostensibly to make them legal for hunting in some states. These were the same type of inserts that came with the early Colt SP1 guns. They were easily removable. In addition, the bayonet lug on the Howa AR-180 had the locking notches filled in with little press-fit steel blocks. These could be easily knocked out with a punch. I believe this had something to do with the Japanese law that prohibited the export of "military" weapons, and a functional bayonet lug made this a "military" weapon.

 

[kBob]

AlexanderA,

Now I have to see if the magazine block is still floating around! Whether it was 5 or 10 I loaded the mag once , got miffed, stripped it apart and found the block, removed the block and went on my merry way. It was a bit of stamped steel and U shaped(with square cornors and a flat short bit between the legs) is a good way to describe it. My magazine was damaged in shipping and I had thought that was why the low number of rounds would go in. I was happy to see the block. The US GI M7 Bayonet fit the Sterling ( with less wobble than any of my issued M-16A1s) as did the "Stoner" Bayonet. I only wish the Stoner bayonet had been available in Black instead of that not quite OD green as it looked more "right" on the AR-180 than the M7. Not as serviceable as a knife , but looked uber cool and "Science fictiony."

I used the rifle a few years later ( about 1980) in collage ROTC to provide the Kaydets (remember Parris Rifles?) with something other than the same old M16A1s in a field problem for the bad guys. That day we had a M1A in a E2 stock with bipod and M60 sling, a pair of K98 mausers, and replica models of a Pachet SMG and Thompson laying about the objective. Some failed to note the types of weapons in their individual after action reports! Good learning experience. Several were however fascinated with the AR-180.

-kBob

 

[AlexanderA]

No optics

Provided that the tapered dovetail flange on the top of the receiver is properly aligned (my Costa Mesa is, my Howa isn't), Picatinny rail adapters are available that will let you mount any modern optics. The original 3- or 4-power scope will mount directly on the dovetail flange, but that's an expensive collector's item.

Sterling-made steel 40-round magazines for the AR-180 are highly desirable, whether you have an AR-180 or not. That's because they fit the AR-15 as well as the AR-180, and are among the few 40-round magazines that are completely reliable. Be prepared to pay a lot if you can find one.

 

[kBob]

I had a 1 inch scope mount that was on a system like the variation of the Colt type Scope that fit the -180 it had a long ring that allowed for little front to back variation but I never had an issue with eye relief with the scopes I used. Again I used the Single point Occluded Eye type for a good bit and later a Bushnell 3x9 variable. For a bit I had the later self illuminating H3 tritium light source Singlepoint model on it. Don't laugh, but I have a bit of "Ranger eye" tape, the glow in the dark tape we used in the Army to mark the back of our hats and helmet cammo bands with to help the guy following you on patrol not get lost, on the iron sights. I has a upright bar on the rear of the long range sight under the peep and a horizontal bar on the front sight base. I shot the rifle that way under bright moon and under 25 meters it seemed to help despite many folks saying it was stupid I seemed to get more hits in less time so......

I considered one of the clamp on rails so as to mount a SS-1 like Beeman sold for a bit. The SS-1 has its own permanently attached mounting system. Mine was not Beeman marked as I bought it in Europe to go with an FWB air rifle. I ended up putting the SS-1 on a .22 (Nylon 66, and it looked nice) and then found it was such a small diameter and had such poor light transmission that I even pulled it off that. Oddly I had not noticed those faults on the air rifle which I had never had another scope on.

-kBob