My company's parking lot

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expvideo

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I work in an office building and they have a strict firearms policy. Like with most employers, I am limited from carrying at work. However my company also restricts the right for me to keep a gun locked in my vehicle if it is parked on their property.

For the last 4 months, I've parked off of the company property and walked about a quarter-mile to work every day. Everyone told me to just leave it in my car and not say anything, but since my company also has a "we can search your car" policy, and because I think the firearm policy is a gross violation of the constitution, I decided to fight it instead. I explained the situation to my manager, and cited the "Plano v. United Parcel Service (2007)" case that basically was the exact same thing.

It's taking forever, and they're still saying "it's private property" in defense of their restriction.

Please help me fight this. I need more ammo than just the Plano v. UPS case. If it makes a difference, I live in Washington state. (seattle area)

Thanks,
Aaron
 
This is the basic scenario that led the state of Oklahoma passing a law that people with CCW's could lock their firearms in their cars in company parking lots. Which then led to some big companies stopping the new law in federal court. Which was years ago and the case has never emerged back into the light of day. I've written to some insider members of the OK legislature and they say they can't do anything until the Federal courts rule. Which they seem reluctant to do!

Gregg
 
Didn't Philips 66 just win a battle in the supreme court for firing employees for the same thing, it was ruled the company even though it was considered a public lot (open to anyone) it was on their property. They did searches of all vehilcles and anyone with a gun was terminated, I believe it held up and they are still looking for work!
 
plexreticle wrote:

They may not be able to search your vehicle depending on your state's laws.
Click to expand...

in most states that is correct. an employer cannot make you submit to a search in violation of your 4th Amendment right. however, your employer in most states can legally fire you for refusing to submit to such search if they decided to enforce it. with most companies it is written in their policy manual and you usually have to sign something when you first get hired stating that you understand and agree to abide by such company policies.

in Austin, TX, Dell is the employer that comes to mind with the same policy. seeing they have about 9,000 cars in their employee parking lot i dont know how or when they would decide to randomly search a particular vehicle for a weapon. usually they would reserve this right to search a vehicle for their company's property if they believed there was stolen company property inside the vehicle in question. however im sure they could decide to search for a gun if they wanted to.

personally if i had a firearm in my vehicle against company policy i would rather refuse the search than submit to it. if you submit to it they will find the gun and fire you anyway. if you refuse to submit to it they won't find the gun and will probably fire you regardless. but at least you can probably fight the firing with an attorney if you don't consent, and some security guard doesn't attempt to "confiscate" your property.
 
Have they searched anyone's vehicle? I wonder how many of those are just CYA policies for the legal department. Seems like they would be opening themselves to a tactical wheelbarrow full of lawsuits if they actually searched vehicles. Frivilous or not, it often costs a company $20,000 or more just to defend themselves in court each time.
 
My company's position is......

"if you have a gun in your car and we find out about it, you are fired. So, sue us, we have more attorneys and money than you do". Good thing I am retiring in one year and 6 days.......chris3
 
i dont think there are a whole lot of employers out there that are doing many random searches of vehicles anymore. for liability reasons they would have to have pretty good evidence that you had something in your vehicle that was either stolen company property or a clear safety hazard that could seriously disrupt daily business operations.

then again, Dell hires Wackenhut Security guards to patrol/guard their campus in Round Rock.
 
Have they searched anyone's vehicle? I wonder how many of those are just CYA policies for the legal department. Seems like they would be opening themselves to a tactical wheelbarrow full of lawsuits if they actually searched vehicles. Frivilous or not, it often costs a company $20,000 or more just to defend themselves in court each time.
Click to expand...

You are kidding right? It was the searching of vehicles and subsequent firing of people with many years of experience that led to the Oklahoma law.

http://www.nrapublications.org/first freedom/Conoco.asp

Gregg
 
My company has the same policy, no weapons, and while I don't CCW yet I do plan to do so. I was on the side of it's the companies property they can decide it if they want but the more I think and reflect on it the less I agree with it. We have a persons right to defend themselves and arm themselves to do so vs the right of a property owner to decide what is allowed on their property, and I think allowing an employee to secure a gun in their car is a fair enough compromise.
 
We have a similar policy here. The caveat is that our policy is written to forgive you if you are carrying a weapon with the intent to transport it somewhere else (i.e. you are going hunting after work, the range, show your best buddy the newest toy you bought). Other than that, guns are verboten on property and in company parking lots. Thankfully, we are in a leased building and 'technically' not on bank "property."
 
You shoud be aware of this decision also:

The Utah Supreme Court on Tuesday asserted that employees do not have the right to bring guns onto company property if there is a policy prohibiting weapons.

The high court's ruling underscored the strength of Utah's long- standing, at-will employment law -- which means workers can be fired or quit at any time.

The decision was prompted by a wrongful termination lawsuit filed by three America Online employees, Luke Hansen, Paul Carlson and Jason Melling, who were sacked in 2000 after they transferred guns among their cars in the company's leased parking lot at its Ogden call center.

AOL had a policy, which the employees knew about, that prohibited firearms in the company building and parking lot.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20040721/ai_n11465914
 
The caveat is that our policy is written to forgive you if you are carrying a weapon with the intent to transport it somewhere else (i.e. you are going hunting after work, the range, show your best buddy the newest toy you bought).
Click to expand...

That was one of the most frustrating things about what happened in OK. The search didn't find that many "CCW types" of handguns. What they found were shotguns. Long barreled, obviously hunting shotguns. These were rural types who would go hunt doves or quail any time they got a chance. One of the guys fired had 22 years of experience working there. But finding a bird gun in his truck gave them "cause" to fire him without compensation. Say goodbye to that retirement pension!

The whole thing here in OK has made me really angry. I live in a rural area. If I worked in Tulsa, what am I supposed to do? It is an hour drive on the highway each way. Plus my hour of lunch. The company I used to work for built their plant way out on a road with nothing else. There was no place to park EXCEPT the company lot. But if the company can fire me for having a gun in my locked car, that means I can't carry a gun for the entire time I'm in transit to and from work and at lunch. I can pick up my gun when I get home and go to Braums' for milk but when do you think I might actually need my gun? When I'm in Vinita where the whole county has 15,000 people? Or on the road back and forth to Tulsa? Or in Tulsa on my lunch break?

Allowing companies to unilateraly forbid employees to secure guns in their cars amounts to allowing those companies to foist their anti-gun political agendas on us with no recourse. Those companies didn't want CCW laws passed in the first place. They lost at the ballot box. So they will just win by making us unable to carry for the vast majority of our waking hours!

And why is it that the Federal courts have been allowed to just sit on this for years without making a decision?! Heck, it would be better if they ruled against us since then we could start an appeal. No decision at all means the OK law can't take effect and there is nobody to complain to about it!

Gregg
 
I'll bet the company that searches the car doesn't strip search you!:what:

I wonder what would happen if you had a lockbox and 'didn't have' the keys.
-Your fired
-Lawsuit... I submited to a search, I just didn't have the keys...

Your job or your life
Your decision.
 
Please help me fight this. I need more ammo than just the Plano v. UPS case.
Click to expand...

You need a lawyer, not a bunch of free advice (worth exactly what you paid for it) from the internet.
 
I wouldn't want to work for anyone who claimed the right to search my vehicle. Be it for guns, drugs, illegal aliens, or WMD's.
 
I am a security manager for a financial corp. and a member of ASIS, a professional association for us security folks. A couple moths ago, there was a lengthy article in our monthly magazine crying and whining about CHP laws and how awful it was that employees may have pistols in the company parking lot.

The jerk writing the article was lamenting the passage of the CHP laws as it restricted a company’s ability to keep guns out of the parking lot. I was pizzed that they took that stance and have been “tardy” with my dues while I weigh the ramifications of telling them to pizz off.
 
First rule of concealed carry: Concealed means concealed.
Second rule of concealed carry: Concealed means you don't tell anyone it's concealed.

The company may include the "no guns in cars" rule because of a generic boilerplate insurance thingie, or they may take it seriously - you can't tell from the employee handbook.

There are court cases favoring each side of the issue. AOL had a well-publicized case a few years back, and that involved a parking lot they didn't own, or even technically rent (just common parking in a large multi-rental complex). UPS is the obvious recent case. Georgia is trying to pass an "employers can't ban guns in cars in open/public/unsecured lots" law.

You brought it up - bad move, as they don't want to deal with it, and you've painted yourself as being on the wrong side of company policy. Ultimately, employers can fire employees - no reason required, period, full stop. You didn't start this with a well-crafted letter from a competent lawyer, you didn't start this because of any particular incident. You've created a problem where there wasn't one (as far as they're concerned).

Be very careful, drop the issue, and park off-site from now on. They think you're a pain, and have no qualms about firing you for being a pain. Shut up, park elsewhere, and talk to a lawyer.
 
If you happen to have Crohns, Colitis, or IBD, the runs excuse is great. Any action taken against you in response would be discrimination and oh the fun you'd have in court. :D

Unfortunately, when I use it, it's always true. :rolleyes: (TMI)
 
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