My first bad experience with Lee

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Landric

Landric

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Apr 19, 2003
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I have a Lee Classic Turret, a Breech Lock Challenger, and a Reloader press. I also have plenty of Lee dies (and with the exception of the lock rings, which I don't like) I've found them to be excellent. The "perfect powder measure" and the Pro Auto Disk have worked well for me, even if the PPM feels excessively cheap, it works. The auto disk is great for handgun and the powder I use for .223. I wasn't that impressed with the double disk kit or adjustable charge bar, but otherwise they are GTG. I have a couple of classic loaders that are fun and ingenious, if a little slow. My RCBS Rockchucker is a lot more solid feeling that the aluminum Lee presses (though the LCT feels just as solid as the RC), and the Uniflow powder measures I have work exceptionally well with every powder I have tried. I have only ever used a RCBS 505 scale, and being happy with it I haven't felt the need to try anything else. I have no doubt my RCBS equipment is better made overall, and it feels like its much better quality, but the end result with all my equipment is the same, good ammunition that does what I need it to.

So, with all that said, I decided to give the Lee Pro 1000 progressive press a try. I've been wanting to get a progressive dedicated to just loading .45 ACP ever since I bought a house and have room for handloading again. I had a Dillon Square Deal B set up for .45 ACP that I loaded many thousands of rounds on. It went to live with a friend in 2004, and I eventually decided to just let him keep it. I was really happy with the SDB for what it was, but when I bought it, it was going for about $250. They are now running $100 more, a significantly greater gap from the Pro 1000 than they were. I wasn't really looking for a machine that I could use for multiple applications, I'm happy with the LCT and my single stages for that. I just wanted a press to churn out large amounts of .45.

So, I did a lot of reading and research on the Pro 1000. I knew going in that it worked very well for some people and gave others fits. I'm not new to handloading or progressives, so I figured so long as the design was solid I could make it work. I found one in stock in .45ACP and ordered it. It arrived, I had already watched setup and use videos on the press, but I watched them again and read Lee's less than stellar instructions before I started setting it up. Its quite straight forward to set up, or at least appears to be.

So, once I'm done with setup I run some test cases through to adjust the dies and make sure everything is copacetic. Everything goes well with my powderless test rounds. I moved up slowly, eventually getting to the point that I am ready to load live ammo. I started running one round through at a time and everything worked perfectly. Three pulls of the lever, place one bullet, loaded round. I did that a couple more times with the same successful result. Primers and powder are doing what they are supposed to, auto index is working, dies are adjusted correctly. I am starting to wonder what all the complaints are about. I loaded the single pieces of brass through the case feeder and it worked perfectly. I started thinking that I could get used to this process, it was nice having the cases fed automatically for me.

So, I decide its time to run it as a progressive. First case, no problem, second case, no problem, third case (now I have one at each station), I pull the lever down, still good, push the lever back and the ram comes free from the shell plate carrier and leaves the carrier stuck to the top underside of the press. I fiddle with the thing and eventually figure out that even though the allen bolt that holds the carrier to the ram is so tight that it cannot be tightened by hand with the allen wrench, its not tight enough to hold the carrier to the ram when all three stations are doing their thing. So, I tighten it more and everything seems alll good. The carrier comes free without excessive effort and seems OK. However, when I reach the bottom of the stroke the shell plate doesn't index. I run it back up and try again, this time it indexes about half way and stops.

I checked for info, watched more videos, read the instructions again, and decide to adjust the auto index. I do what the video on Lee's website tells me to do. Everything seems fine as I'm making the adjustments, it does what the video shows. However, once I have it adjusted as they instruct it still will not stop with the correct alignment. No matter what I do to adjust it (and I spent several hours trying to get it to work), it simply will not index correctly. So, I crack it open and look at the parts. Everything looks OK, but I decided to replace the indexing ratchet anyway just to make sure. That didn't solve the problem either. Eventually after trying everything I can think of and checking as many resources as I could find, I decided I got a bum press and returned it.

I got the replacement today from Midway. I set it up, went through the process, and everything was running perfectly. I started running in full progressive mode and I was having great success. It was fast, sure, and the case feeder was working perfectly. I made 15 perfect rounds. On round sixteen the same problems I had with the first press started again. I tried to correct the problems, but without success.

So, I have returned the replacement press and asked for a refund. I'll save that money and in a couple of months I'm going to buy a Dillon Square Deal B. No, it doesn't have a case feeder, but I know SDBs work from prior ownership, and the SDB does exactly what I want to do, churn out lots of handgun ammunition without a lot of headaches.

I think the Pro 1000 is a great design that has been poorly executed. If Lee ever decides to offer a progressive based on the Classic Turret I will seriously consider it, I couldn't be happier with my LCT, but no more Lee progressives for me unless and until that happens. I am curious about the Loadmaster, but after my two dud Pro 1000s I don't want to waste any more money returning poor quality products to Midway.
 
It is always better to ask for help when you have the item, instead of complaining after you have sent it back. Solution for your problem was pretty simple.
 
Well, out with it, heig! What simple solution was available for Landric's Pro 1000 problem?

As for Landric's introductory comments: Those were a good set of summary statements for those of us Lee owners who have not used other brands of presses. Thank you.

Jim H.
 
helg said:

It is always better to ask for help when you have the item, instead of complaining after you have sent it back. Solution for your problem was pretty simple.
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Well, one could say I found a solution, I sent it back. I'm curious what might have fixed the problem that I couldn't find either online or in the instructions (and I looked a lot), but that is all it is, curiosity. I wasn't impressed with the overall build quality of the press, especially when compared to Lee's more recent designs. At any rate, the fact that both presses arrived with the same problem is an indicator of quality control and the likelihood of the same problem resurfacing again in the future.

The Pro 1000 was the first handloading machine I purchased that didn't do what it was supposed to do right out of the box, and that includes plenty of Lee products. I am by no means a Lee hater, I really like a lot of their equipment and some of their designs are downright ingenious. I was not, however, impressed with the Pro 1000. I like to tinker with ammunition, not machines that make ammunition. I think the SDB will better meet my needs for a high volume single cartridge producer than the Pro 1000. As I said, in the event of a Cast Progressive based on the current LCT, I'll be very interested.
 
About that "Classic Cast" progressive: Richard Lee told me 18 months ago that they had the prototyping all done, but they couldn't keep up with the demand for their then-current product line.

It really is time for them to pop it out, I'd guess, but the last six months probably have them more backordered than ever.

Jim H.
 
What simple solution was available for Landric's Pro 1000 problem?
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I have mentioned this earlier in the thread - it is to ask questions before returning the thing back. The long story, which was described by the OP, who supposedly knows how to use forums, does not include any references to this.
 
So I take it that means that you don't know how to correct the specific problems I had with the Pro 1000s but rather you think that I should have spelled out in my post that I asked someone about it? If that is the case, thanks for contributing. If you do know the specific answer perhaps you could share it since others here seem to want to know the answer as well. Its academic to me now, but perhaps it might help others.
 
I actually have two pro 1000's set up for .45 and .40 and have had the same problem a few times, all I do is turn the plate forward to its proper place, give the handle a few dry runs and it'll start working proper again, no idea what the cause is but that is the way I fix it, I have noticed that it tends to happen more when the works aren't lubed enough.
 
I should have spelled out in my post that I asked someone about it?
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You are right. With a link to a forum thread with the question, where nobody gives you an adequate advice, this complain thread would look more realistic. Unfortunately, I can not find at this forum any tread, which you have started, with question about Pro1000 - while you are starting in average two threads a week at this forum. Where did you ask for help?
 
I didn't start a thread, nor did I claim anywhere that I did. What I did was speak extensively to a friend who is a Pro 1000 owner and has had some success with his, and contacted Lee directly. It might be your opinion that I should have also posted a thread here, but by the time I got to that point I was pretty fed up with the press so I didn't bother.

I'm not sure why you think my experience isn't "realistic" as you put it, but I also don't feel any particular need to prove it to you either. As I said before, I own and like many Lee products, I'm not running Lee down in general, I just wasn't impressed with the Pro 1000.

I do find it kind of amusing that you think the solution was "pretty easy", but clearly you have no idea what it might be, and so far no one else does either. One other poster has had a similar experience to mine it seems, though it would appear not to the same extent.

So, if it will make you happy, "Anyone know what the problem was that I described in my original post and how to fix it"? Perhaps if someone does I will get another and see.
 
Landric, I am not blaming you. Please, take my advice to ask for help when you still have a problem, not after you have surrendered.

I have Loadmaster, so I can not address your past problem with Pro1000. Once mine was hard to index. I figured out that it was a grain of walnut shell between feeder throat and a carrier. Other time a grain was between primer pin and primer throat. My longest loading session had more than 1000 rounds and went smooth. I managed to have clean brass and no powder spills though.

Indexing in the Loadmaster involves only five parts: shellplate, carrier, indexing rod, primer feeder throat and pin. Each part is a solid piece. It is not too complex for me to inspect each part and find what the problem is. It involves much less efforts than packing all the stuff and sending it back. I do not know for sure, but I believe that indexing in the Pro1000 does not involve more parts than in the Loadmaster, and finding what the problem is should not be too hard.

Another good advice is to find a right rhythm to cycle the press. Presses with auto-indexing, which make a lot of operations on a stroke, are sensitive to the rhythm.
 
After reading through this thread I'd like to offer two pieces of advice.

Helg, if you have something to contribute we cannot read between the lines and we don't want to assume we know what your talking about so just say what your going to say. Your original post was so vague I don't know how you expected anyone to understand it.

Landric I have found that putting a little sizing lube on a few pistol cases here and there even when loading with carbide dies makes them much less sticky and works much more smoothly with my Lee Classic Cast Turret and 45acp Carbide dies. This may have helped you maybe not?
 
Does anyone know if MidwayUSA sends the press back to the manufacturer?
If it is a manufacturing defect, I'm sure the manufacturer would like to discover it.

Sorry you had a bad experience, Landric. My P-1000 has occasional hiccups but I've been able to overcome them. Generally it's not the press's fault. As with any press, prior experience surely helps the operator keep it running.

Since you have prior SDB experience, definitely go that route. Good decision.
 
Id bet theres more of those pro 1000s collecting dust then actually being used. Ive owned 3 in the past and they were nothing but a headache. Save your money and buy a square deal. There a much better press. Personaly i think lee mades some good things. there 6 cavity molds there primer tool are great and there pistol dies are some of the best ive used but stay away from there progressive machines. they will age you fast.
 
Id bet theres more of those pro 1000s collecting dust then actually being used.
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Check the link. This is an estimate on use of each press from non-human, and therefore, unlike us, an unbiased source.
 
Not very modern reloader

I purchased a Loadmaster a few months ago. After I watched all of the videos and did everything that was suggested, the LM was reliable without a case feeder or bullet feeder. The case feeder causes me to have to stop and fix something every couple of hundred rounds. The bullet feeder is a poor design. It looks like it might work reliably if it had to fully extend before it went up. I continue to load rifle rounds on my single stage and turret presses. I have used the loadmaster in "turret" mode and it is flawless; but I have only loaded 1000 rounds on it total. I really want a star trek replicator. That way I can load one perfect round for each of my weapons, then replicate it anytime I want to shoot more.
 
I own and use the Pro-1000 press (Had two of them at one time) and still use it to this day. I've successfully loaded tens of thousands of rounds.

My first thought was either that the ram was machined undersize, the shellplate carrier was machined oversize, or you did not properly tighten the allen head bolt holding the carrier on the ram.

Sure you said you did, however there's my definition of tight and my wife's definition of tight in terms of tightening screws. I have never, ever, seen a malfunction like you describe unless you were resizing in steel dies with no lube, and even then, I see it ripping the rim before it pulled the carrier off the ram.

As to the index adjustment (the timing of the press) it can be tricky the first time, and it is actually not hard when you do it a few times. Basically, lift the press up a bit to get the carrier riding the ratchet, then turn the screw until the ball detent just drops in. The carrier will rotate a little to align the ball bearing. Then add another half turn to the screw, and good to go.

It is hard to imagine two presses with the same problem. Not to say Lee can't make mistakes, it's just more likely the problem is in the interface between the chair and the press arm.
 
evan price said:

I own and use the Pro-1000 press (Had two of them at one time) and still use it to this day. I've successfully loaded tens of thousands of rounds.
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I'm glad yours works. I liked the design, just not the execution.

My first thought was either that the ram was machined undersize, the shellplate carrier was machined oversize, or you did not properly tighten the allen head bolt holding the carrier on the ram.

Sure you said you did, however there's my definition of tight and my wife's definition of tight in terms of tightening screws. I have never, ever, seen a malfunction like you describe unless you were resizing in steel dies with no lube, and even then, I see it ripping the rim before it pulled the carrier off the ram.
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I'm not you or your wife so I can't say what either of you consider tight. However, on both presses the allen bolt holding on the carrier was so tight it could not be hand tightened with an allen wrench. Even so, on both presses, the carrier came free and stuck to the dies. That problem was solved on both presses by further tightening of the bolt using hand tools.

As to the index adjustment (the timing of the press) it can be tricky the first time, and it is actually not hard when you do it a few times. Basically, lift the press up a bit to get the carrier riding the ratchet, then turn the screw until the ball detent just drops in. The carrier will rotate a little to align the ball bearing. Then add another half turn to the screw, and good to go.
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I understand how its supposed to work. The problem was, even though I was doing exactly what the instructional videos on Lee's site said, and the instructions I found other places online said, it didn't work.

It is hard to imagine two presses with the same problem. Not to say Lee can't make mistakes, it's just more likely the problem is in the interface between the chair and the press arm.
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I agree, its hard to imagine, but since it happened to me, I don't have to imagine it. I'm not new at this. Its my first experience with the Pro 1000, but its not my first experience with progressive machines and I've been handloading for over 15 years. I could see how the machines were supposed to work, and nothing I was doing should have prevented them from working. They did not, however, work as they were intended to.

At any rate I wasn't impressed with the build quality of the press. Had it worked perfectly out of the box (or its replacement), I probably could have overlooked that. Since neither did I don't see any reason to tinker with one of them trying to make it work, especially given the Pro 1000s hit or miss reputation in the first place.

I do really hope Lee manages to get a cast 4 station progressive based on the Classic Turret on the market. Until then, I think I'll just get that Square Deal for my .45ACP needs.
 
Well, it does sound to me like Landric trouble-shot his problems with both presses.

For the carrier / ram issue, maybe the problem was a ram at min diameter spec. Occasionally, my carrier would pop off, but hand-tightening with an allen wrench (short end in, for greatest leverage) always solved that problem. As for the indexing issue: I suspect a secondary issue tripped Landric up. The problem is that the (nylon) indexing components can strip out easily--and you won't know it; you have to replace the components and start again on index adjustment. A new user would not know about that problem; for sure, the Lee-provided instructions don't tell you.

I haven't used my Pro1000 for years; it's now dedicated to the Activity Day demonstration display at my club. There, it looks sexy, all dressed up with the collator, bolted next to a (standard) turret and an early-model Lee Challenger SS. I do use the Turret for any demo assembly....

I did load 1000s and 1000s of rounds on my Pro1000. I could even run 500 rds an hour of semi-auto fodder if I was well-organized with case feeder tubes and spare primer trays filled, etc., etc. In the long run, I was dissatisfied with the 3-die design, with the subsequent tweaking needed for 'new' bullet components. Add to that the intermittent issues with primer feed and seating--and then the concomitant powder-dump and clogging--and you have a press that absolutely needs a lot of special maintenance knowledge to run it smoothly.

IOW the Pro1000 can be a problematic machine, and it is not a machine for someone who is 'end-goal' oriented instead of process-oriented. Most progressive users are, I suspect, much more end-goal oriented. The Square Deal is a probably a better machine in this sense, despite its 'proprietary' characteristics.

If this 'low-end' progressive segment of the market heats up, the Classic Cast Progressive should show up. It'll be interesting to see how Lee does it, given their 'best-bang-for-the-buck' design work. I suspect the real issue will be how they provide good and reliable case feeding; the Safety Prime--if it doesn't have to be changed to provide case feeding access--does seem to solve fast and (generally) reliable primer feeding.

Jim H.
 
I have two Pro 1000's and load 380acp, 9mm, 357mag, 10mm, 45acp, and 45LC with them. I've concluded they're sort of a tinkerers loading press. There are a lot of things can can go wrong while loading with them and you really have to pay attention to what you're doing. I wouldn't recommend a Pro 1000 to a new reloader, but as I said I love mine 98% of the time.

1. The shellplate assembly can pull loose as originally described. Just tighten the retaining screw with an allen wrench as described. (My experience: ~3 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

2. The shellplate can get out of index. Just adjust it with adjustment screw. (My experience: ~60 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

3. The "light bulb" chain that returns the Auto Disk to the back to refill it can slip a ball and result in undercharging. (My experience: ~6 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

4. The "light bulb" chain can break. This is real obvious and easily replaced. (My experience: ~3 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

5. A removed primer can fall on just the right spot near the Lee logo on the press baseplate and prevent full seating of new primers. If you have a Pro 1000 I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. (My experience: ~4 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

6. The spring in the primer feeding device can slip loose and fail to stop primers from feeding when no cartridge is present. Easy to fix - just slip it back into place. (My experience: ~3 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

7. The "nut" that holds the shellplate to the shellplate assembly can come loose resulting in no indexing. Just disassemble and tighten the nut. (My experience: ~4 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

8. The nylon bushing that controls the indexing of the shellplate can strip or split and result in no indexing. Just disassemble and replace. (My experience: ~3 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

9. The spring that releases primers can slip out of the arm that triggers release resulting in no primer. Just slip it back in. (My experience: ~4 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

10. Flipped primers / sideways primers. (My experience: ~25 occurrences in 100,000+ rounds)

11. Large pistol primers do not feed reliably. They bridge in the tray is you put more than 40 or so in and fail to slide down the chute. Regular repeated manual shaking of the primer assembly is required when I load 10mm, 45acp, and 45LC. (This is the usual cause of sideways primers - not enough in the chute to advance the primer to be seated all the way onto the seating ram)

That said, I love them 98% of the time. I can crank out 200-300 rounds per hour depending on caliber. You just have to pay attention to what you're doing and watch for glitches.
 
jfh said:

For the carrier / ram issue, maybe the problem was a ram at min diameter spec. Occasionally, my carrier would pop off, but hand-tightening with an allen wrench (short end in, for greatest leverage) always solved that problem. As for the indexing issue: I suspect a secondary issue tripped Landric up. The problem is that the (nylon) indexing components can strip out easily--and you won't know it; you have to replace the components and start again on index adjustment. A new user would not know about that problem; for sure, the Lee-provided instructions don't tell you.
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I actually tried replacing the nylon indexing rachet on the first of the two presses. It made the problem slightly better, but didn't fix it. I checked the rachet I removed. It didn't look damaged, but who knows. At any rate I knew from reading that the rachets could be problems and I had spares available.



IOW the Pro1000 can be a problematic machine, and it is not a machine for someone who is 'end-goal' oriented instead of process-oriented. Most progressive users are, I suspect, much more end-goal oriented. The Square Deal is a probably a better machine in this sense, despite its 'proprietary' characteristics.
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I really like to tinker with different loads, and I enjoy the experience of handloading as much as I do shooting. For me handloading is a hobby, not a means to an end. However, a progressive machines purpose is to turn out large quanities of ammunition in the shortest possible time. When I load on a progressive that is my goal. I only load cartridges I shoot a lot of that way, and only after I have done expermentation to find the best loads for my needs.

My goal is to produce a lot of .45ACP as quickly as possible using a load I have prefected on my slower presses. Once I get done with a batch of .45 I can go back to my slower presses and tinker with them and the ammunition.

If I wanted to tinker, I'd use the LCT or one of my single stages, to crank out the ammo I don't want the issues it seems I can expect from a Pro 1000. Given my experience in the past with a Dillon SDB I think its the right answer for my progressive needs.
 
Helg....

Check the link. This is an estimate on use of each press from non-human, and therefore, unlike us, an unbiased source.
Click to expand...

Please explain what this data represents and how it is collected. It could be just the minutes it takes to make one round on each brand of press!

Thanks,
Scott
 
Please explain what this data represents and how it is collected
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The graphs show how often the requests been searched on Google over time.. The link in my previous post shows that Google continuously receives more search requests on one press than on any other.

Google trends is powerful analysis tool. Want to see what is more popular: AR15, 30-06 or 10/22? Here is the link. Lots of interesting trends can be researched with the tool.
 
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