George P
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My local LGS charges $20; he is a part time business open 4 days a week for 5 hours each day (very small town)
My Gunsmith takes a hit.
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Jeb Stuart
member
First of all BS, I take full responsibility for not checking to make sure my Gun Smith after 10 years had not gone out of business in the last two months I last saw him. I told my gun smith the same. No, my gun smith does not charge more, the LGS he now works for does.
Second, my gun smith friend did not recommend anyone. He just told me that this store will charge a much higher fee. No, I am on no MISSION for God sake. I simply will not recommend this LGS. Is that wrong? Mission? I have more to do in life than go on a mission about a lousy gun shop. My Gosh this is getting crazy.
Lol, now I need to look into a mirror? Maybe go to confessional? Get lost. I am not sorry for anything and have no reason to be. And you need to get off your high horse and not judge me. Maybe you need a good look in the mirror. Move on.
By the way, read all the post. I already found another LGS and a happy camper. I've moved on.
Second, my gun smith friend did not recommend anyone. He just told me that this store will charge a much higher fee. No, I am on no MISSION for God sake. I simply will not recommend this LGS. Is that wrong? Mission? I have more to do in life than go on a mission about a lousy gun shop. My Gosh this is getting crazy.
Lol, now I need to look into a mirror? Maybe go to confessional? Get lost. I am not sorry for anything and have no reason to be. And you need to get off your high horse and not judge me. Maybe you need a good look in the mirror. Move on.
By the way, read all the post. I already found another LGS and a happy camper. I've moved on.
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BSA1
member
Good.
er, Understood. He used to charge $20.00 and the LGS now charges $50.00
Then why did you write in Post #1;
"And there behind the counter was my Gun Smith. He saw be and quickly came over, apologized for the inconvience and told me in a low tone. Go someone else for the re-shipement.”
You wrote in Post #3;
“And I will tell everyone in my Club. Word of mouth means a lot. I will refer to the other LGS to all my friends.”
Fair enough.
It is presumptuous of me to tell people to take responsibility for their own actions.
As I previously commented; Congratulations.
Jackal
Member
We charge $30 transfer fee, but we ARE open 7 days/week. The convenience and quality customer service is usually worth the little extra.
The $50 is pretty much standard fee at gun shops where I live. Naturally they prefer to sell what they have in stock. Can't say I blame them. Obviosly in case presented it would have been smart to pay the $50 and be done with transaction. Naturally if one objects to paying $50 another entity should be found for future use.
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Eddietruett
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I got a buddy that runs several Pawn and Gun shops. He loves to do transfers. Keeps people coming in his store. I think he charges $20 for Concealed Permit holders that don't require a background check and $25 for non permit holders that require a background check which takes longer. He has found that at least half of his transfer customers buy some ammo when picking up their gun, so he makes a few extra dollars on the deal. Customer service is the only way the small guy can compete with the big box stores. Small things like transfers, basic gun cleaning and bore sighting scopes not only pick you up a few bucks but are things that the big box guys don't offer
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Jeb Stuart
member
Ok, it was never about the $50 vs $20. It was the fact that my gun smith was now at a new location and bringing over customers that he had from doing 10 years of business. He told me he had gone to the owner and asked that any of his previous customers that had shipped a firearm since he made the transition to the new store, be able to have a one time fee of $20.00, and then after this the $50.00. He said he told the owner, that these were loyal customer he had for a long time. And as a welcoming to the new location, it would be a jester of good faith to honor his fee to keep this his customers into coming back. He said there will be a number of his customers that did not realize he departed and shut down his business so fast and would most likely have to pay a additional shipping charge to find a new LGS. He though it would be a win win for all. The new owner told him NO. Yes, my gun smith said if you still want to pay $20.00 which I know will be on top of the $25.00 additional shipping fees, there are other FFL's available.
Ok, fine. I made the mistake, I will pay more for additional shipping, but since the new owner does not want to offer anything, that is fine as well. I will take my business somewhere else. I told my gunsmith I did know a number of places even closer to my home that will gladly accept me as a new customer and only charge $20.00.
The bottom line is, as a avid gun owner, I will not be doing business with him, and his competitor gets a new customer. And as a Customer that belongs to a club with a lot of friends, I will obviously tell them that if they want to pay higher fees's where to go, and if they want to save more than double that price where to go. I did call the new FFL to make sure he was in fact in business, and he was very happy and welcoming me. He made sure I had the correct address, gave me directions and told me the name of the person that would be taking care of the FFL's. He explained to me that they have a full store with supplies, military surplus, a gun smith on location, do custom work, and as I mentioned custom coating.
So it is a WIN WIN for all. I already visited his website and am actually excited to visit his store when I go to pick up my new gun. Very interested in looking at the military surplus that i saw and talk about getting a trigger job for my Smith and Wesson 642. and have another gun get a custom Coating.
A WIN WIN, my old gun smith has a new job, His new boss does not have to worry about more business and dealing with a new customer, another store gets more business, and I get to tell all my friends where to go for saving and great customer service.
! Win Win!
I love it when every body is happy!
Zippty doo DaH!
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Mowgli Terry
Member
The day of brick and mortar LGS's has probably passed. You cannot stay open selling guns. The money is in accessories. How many of us go to Amazon or Midway to get shooting items. Two of the local businesses have indoor ranges. The range has been a real draw. There are no problem people at the indoor range I use. The local rifle club has a two year waiting period. Much of the gun business has gone to the pawn shops. There is a local gunsmith shop. They are great people. Their long range custom rifles run into the thousands. They charge enough to make a living. This situation keeps me away from project guns beyond my ability. My FFL brokers many firearms. He also has a bookkeeping business. Looks like we, in the end, are talking about people who sell services.
My local gun/pawn will charge $20 or $25 for a transfer IF they do not have the same firearm for sale as a new item. Then it jumps another $20 so they can make more profit. If they have the item I want they usually match the price I was going to pay without taxes so it has never been an issue. If they don't have the piece and can't get it they are happy to do the $20 transfer.
redneck2
Member
Fortunately or the unfortunately, I suspect this is true. I need a new battery for my four wheeler that I use to plow snow. Local shops are $120sh range. I can order it from EBay for $85, free shipping, two day delivery, no sales tax. If the local shops were within even $20 I’d pay the difference. But, a 50% difference is a little steep. And, the eBay battery has a better warranty
BSA1
member
I hope not. The gun business has always been tough. Before the Internet there was Shotgun News.
Having been in the business you are correct that it is impossible to stay open just selling new guns. However money can be made selling used guns. Buying used guns on the Internet is always risky as it impossible to actually inspect the gun before buying. Plus UPS / Fed-Ex makes shipping expensive.
A new LGS open recently that is doing transfers for only $10.00. Frankly I don't think that is wise (profitable) but it has made me repeat customer. The Lady brought a Ruger SR22 from them earlier this month and I have a AR Lower on order with them.
Their real money is gunsmithing. He does Ceracoating so I plan on having him do my Purple People Eater AR this winter. No idea how good of "gunsmith" he is. He seems heavy into tactical AR's but if that is where the market is so be it.
They have a ok website but it is their blog that is really good.
Retail inventory is small and mainly for AR's.
Ordering over the Internet will lose some of it's appeal as States start collecting sales tax on orders. As that is a huge cash cow look for more States to quickly start passing laws to do so. (South Dakota vs. Wayfair)
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/17-494_j4el.pdf
There is a lot to be said for being able to handle the product and good old-fashion salesmanship. While in the shop a few days after The Lady brought her SR22 he asked me how she liked the gun. I told him that we can't go to the range until the weekend but that I had been doing a lot of reading and was really impressed with it. He smiled and said I have something to show you. He went back into his shop and brought out a SR22 with the Ruger Suppressor on it. WOW! I love it. I am trying to choke down the cost $$$ and hassle of buying a suppressor but, dang, that combination is darn near the cat's meow for use here on the farm. Especially dealing with critters that like chicken.
And what the heck if I am going to jump into owning a suppressor I might as well have another 22 pistol to use it on. More $,$$$.
So far they have done a gun transfer for me (earlier this year), sold The Lady a pistol, sold me a AR Lower and I am planning on him ceracoating a AR after Christmas plus he is baiting me for buying a Ruger Suppressor.
Oh The Lady really likes his wife (husband & wife small business) and said she wants us to do all of our future gun purchases from them even if it costs more.
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Mowgli Terry
Member
The point about gunsmiths had to do with the cost of work to keep the doors opened. I got a bolt handle welded onto a Mauser bolt for $100.00. Great work but building up a rifle quickly exceeds my meager income. Yes, you can make money trading firearms. Trading can also teach one humility very quickly. I think that's why the pawn shops are getting into gun business. The pawn shops have a different source for used firearms. A friend has gotten a deal with a local pawn shop to do transfers.
Gun Dealers: One of my favorites was a local gun dealer who was a jerk on his best day. He would brag about his great service. This guy was a verbal Bubba. I was harsh thinking of him as a liar. He was not a liar. He was crazy.
Repairs: My FFL guy will ship handguns at the same cost as Fedex etc. It's convenient to pick the guns from him after having had to play tag with Fedex last time. They'll will box it up for shipment.
Gun Dealers: One of my favorites was a local gun dealer who was a jerk on his best day. He would brag about his great service. This guy was a verbal Bubba. I was harsh thinking of him as a liar. He was not a liar. He was crazy.
Repairs: My FFL guy will ship handguns at the same cost as Fedex etc. It's convenient to pick the guns from him after having had to play tag with Fedex last time. They'll will box it up for shipment.
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Jeb Stuart
member
First of all, I have no idea why he closed down the business. I did not get into that with him. Every one is assuming he was a lousy business man, or just could not complete. Maybe he just wanted to retire and let someone else have the problems of owning a business. He will still be doing work as a gun smith, and maybe can do so with less pressure. Maybe he was offered something he could not turn down. Please let's give the guy a break. His wife and daughter did work at his shop and maybe they all wanted to move into different directions. And to assume he just went out of business simply because he had low FFL fees is ridiculous. We all seem to think we are better business men than this gunsmith and yet no one really has any idea. He did survive for 10 years, Most new business cave within the second year. Many do not make it to 5. He made it to 10 years. He is not a stupid business man.
Jim Watson
Member
Anecdotes:
The store/range here provides four "free" transfers a year to "members."
I have my eye on a couple of www guns to take advantage of the service.
I have bought three guns FROM them. I could have saved a little money at the high volume store... 70 miles away.
Another dealer here is listed by the importer of an interesting new gun. I will pay them a visit to see if they really have inventory I can fondle or just a catalog and a phone number. (I was recently handling some highly touted pistols at the first place above and many of them just did not set well in my hand. I would not buy a pig in a poke. The www sales I mention are types familiar to me.)
On the other hand, a long time dealer near here just closed down. I bought some small stuff from them at closeout prices but will miss their wide selection.
Some years ago I had the local repair gunsmith as a neighbor. He did not want customers coming to his house so he hooked up with Ace Hardware which at the time had a FFL and a small selection of hunting guns and ammo. He would do a repair and submit a bill for parts and labor to Ace. They charged the customer double that amount, 100% markup for checking a gun in and out. Business was still good, he would work on legacy stuff but eventually quit because he could no longer get parts. (For all their reputation for durability, the Winchester Model 12 and the Browning A5 were the Gunsmiths' Friends. He nearly always had one or more in the shop. There were a number of Remington Model 10 and 29 pumps in town, those appeared to be the very devil to work on.)
Another friend is an established holster maker. He got off to a bumpy start, the conflict between making and delivering led to inefficiencies and reviews with "poor customer service." He connected with some distributors, now he sends product out by the case; wholesale revenue on each is lower, but volume is higher and headaches few.
The store/range here provides four "free" transfers a year to "members."
I have my eye on a couple of www guns to take advantage of the service.
I have bought three guns FROM them. I could have saved a little money at the high volume store... 70 miles away.
Another dealer here is listed by the importer of an interesting new gun. I will pay them a visit to see if they really have inventory I can fondle or just a catalog and a phone number. (I was recently handling some highly touted pistols at the first place above and many of them just did not set well in my hand. I would not buy a pig in a poke. The www sales I mention are types familiar to me.)
On the other hand, a long time dealer near here just closed down. I bought some small stuff from them at closeout prices but will miss their wide selection.
Some years ago I had the local repair gunsmith as a neighbor. He did not want customers coming to his house so he hooked up with Ace Hardware which at the time had a FFL and a small selection of hunting guns and ammo. He would do a repair and submit a bill for parts and labor to Ace. They charged the customer double that amount, 100% markup for checking a gun in and out. Business was still good, he would work on legacy stuff but eventually quit because he could no longer get parts. (For all their reputation for durability, the Winchester Model 12 and the Browning A5 were the Gunsmiths' Friends. He nearly always had one or more in the shop. There were a number of Remington Model 10 and 29 pumps in town, those appeared to be the very devil to work on.)
Another friend is an established holster maker. He got off to a bumpy start, the conflict between making and delivering led to inefficiencies and reviews with "poor customer service." He connected with some distributors, now he sends product out by the case; wholesale revenue on each is lower, but volume is higher and headaches few.
George P
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A lot of that depends on what type of gun; guys who specialize in repairing the higher end target shotguns, for example, are ALWAYS busy; folks who customize and custom tune 1911s seem to be backlogged for many months. Any good smith who can fix Colt revolvers, whether SA or DA is in high demand. These are folks who do more than just swap/install parts on ARs; these folks are half machinist, half artisan.
TomJ
Contributing Member
I own a small business, and marketing to new prospective customers is time consuming and expensive. The owner of the LGS your gun smith went to had the opportunity to absorb the customer base of your gun smith by charging an introductory fee of $20, so not only would it not cost him money to "market" to these customers, he'd make money doing so. The fact that he's not making as much as he'd like, so he'd rather make nothing is curious to me.
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Jeb Stuart
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Thank you Tom, that is one of my original points. I was in a business for years, where other companies would actually Purchase a customer base. And then spend money to advertise to that base. I do wish my Gunsmith had sent me a note letting me know that he was going else where. Regardless it is over and I have moved on.
A simple email like I know he had on file would have been nice.
ArchAngelCD
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jmorris
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I wasn’t “bashing” him, just pointing out the place he works for now takes a bigger piece of the pie than he did himself, from what you posted. Had he made more profit in his business he could have hired people to do the work he didn’t want to do or couldn’t. Like his current employer.
Not being judgemental, just making an observation.
Ric
Member
I’ve had two great gunsmiths near me. One passed away and the other retired recently.
No one else close that I trust. I’ve taken to shipping them off.
No one else close that I trust. I’ve taken to shipping them off.
That's the nice thing about freedom of choice: if a company doesn't meet your expectations, you are free to take your business elsewhere.
Conversely, one company doesn't have to charge what another one does.
Having said that, I agree with the OP that a fair amount of goodwill could have been garnered by the new company if they had given him a break on the transfer fee.
It didn't happen and the OP has other options. Some of us will agree with the OP and some won't, it's a matter of personal preference.
That's where we should leave this.
Conversely, one company doesn't have to charge what another one does.
Having said that, I agree with the OP that a fair amount of goodwill could have been garnered by the new company if they had given him a break on the transfer fee.
It didn't happen and the OP has other options. Some of us will agree with the OP and some won't, it's a matter of personal preference.
That's where we should leave this.
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