My Kimber 1911 dislikes Federal ammo - why?

[gunsrfun1]

I have a relatively new Kimber Pro Carry II .45 that seems to dislike Federal 230 gr FMJ. It works fine with WWB 230 gr FMJ and with Remington 230 gr JHP. But it's hard to go more than 3 mags without a failure to go fully into battery with the Federal. Pushing the slide forward resolves the issue, but ....
The gun has less than 500 rounds through it, and I know that Kimber, in the manual, suggests a 500 round breakin period. But my Custom Target II has never had a problem with the Federals, nor does my Springfield XDM. (In fact, they both seem to like Federal.)
My question: Could it be that Federal has a slightly larger outer case diameter than WWB, and my Kimber has a tight (but not necessarily out of spec) chamber, which is causing the problem?
The gun is accurate and otherwise reliable, so I don't relish the idea of sending it back to Kimber, and having it come back worse off. And I can live with using WWB for this gun.
But I was just wondering.
Thanks

 

[Slamfire]

I have a relatively new Kimber Pro Carry II .45 that seems to dislike Federal 230 gr FMJ. It works fine with WWB 230 gr FMJ and with Remington 230 gr JHP. But it's hard to go more than 3 mags without a failure to go fully into battery with the Federal. Pushing the slide forward resolves the issue, but ....

Thanks

When I have had issues with failure to go in battery with my reloads, it has always been due to overly long cartridge OAL. Different manufacturer's use different chambering reamers, some have a shorter or shallower throat. If you are happy with R-P and WWB use that ammunition. Use what works.

 

[edwardware]

. . . without a failure to go fully into battery with the Federal. Pushing the slide forward resolves the issue. . .

How far out of battery? Is the cartridge already turned up into alignment with the chamber, or still sliding up the breach face?

My question: Could it be that Federal has a slightly larger outer case diameter than WWB, and my Kimber has a tight (but not necessarily out of spec) chamber,

This is what micrometers are for; get one and find out. Barring that, save a couple 'jamb' cartridges and plunk test them.

 

[Wireman]

Sorry, but you will have to do a little looking and measuring. 1/4" out of battery? Or the round does not even break over? Remove barrel, hold vertically and drop a round into the chamber. It should plunk in easily without any force applied. Likely the chamber needs to be finished reamed - this is very typical. Get yourself a proper 7 round Colt magazine from Brownells and toss the 9 round "magazine". If the round doesn't break over to horizontal, you will have to have a discussion with the Kimber people. There is no such thing as a firearm "break-in" period. Manufacturers who use that term are really saying that the gun won't work very well when new, and that is unacceptable. They are also counting on their customers to actually believe this story. Sure, the gun may operate more smoothly 3 years from now, but it should work 100% out of the box. Tell them I said so.
WM

 

[gunsrfun1]

I don't know what you mean by "break over," unless you mean it doesn't even make it into the chamber. It does make it into the chamber and is aligned with the chamber, and it does get horizontal; it's more like the 1/4" out of battery that you reference.
As for the magazines, it was not specific to any of my mags (Kimber, Wilson Combat, etc.) I did measure the round and the length is within SAAMI specs (1.263").
I will remove the barrel tomorrow, try the plunk test you recommend, and report back.

 

[L-2]

I'm guessing a new recoil spring and consider Wolff's #32725 version instead of Kimber's stock recoil spring.

As I recall, Kimber recommended only a 800 round interval between recoil spring replacements for its "Pro" models.

 

[cfullgraf]

I agree with Slamfire for a starting point to investigate the cause of the problems. Another thing to look at is the rim on the Federal cases, their size and shape may be different than WWB or RP ammunition. If the extractor is adjusted tight, a slightly larger rim, at the extents of the tolerances for rims can restrict chambering.

But, like what Slamfire said, if it works with R-P or WWB ammunition, why bother with anything else.

 

[ray15]

It's hard to make ammunition that works in every single pistol of a given caliber, and as others have pointed out that's a livable situation. But if you want to narrow it down to ammo vs. gun, consider purchasing a SAAMI minimum cartridge gauge like this one from Hornady. If the Federal ammo goes in all the way in and falls back out under its own weight, it fits within a chamber conforming to the SAAMI minimum 45ACP chamber dimensions, and any blame must be placed on the gun. Your gun may have a really tight (as in technically undersized) chamber, the ammo may be responsible, or you may find a combination of the two factors.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018251079/hornady-cartridge-gauge-45-acp

 

[Coop45]

Wilson combat sells a flat wound spring that is supposed to last longer. It works well in my old series 1 Pro Carry. I sent a DW back for repair. It was a almost a constant FTF, but they got it running. It is an ECO and maybe the barrel length didn't help/

 

[CapnMac]

My old Colt Series 70 does not much like Federal ammo either--I put this down to Federal's truncated cone bullet design. Other makers use a shape more reminiscent of the ogive on FMJ.

Used to be, in days of old, everyone wanted to know if a given .45 would reliably feed the old Blazer 200gr "flying dustbin" JHP. Those had a teeny-tiny ogive on them--and my Series 70 would feed them. The Fed 185 JHP? Not so much.

So, it could be the ammo.

 

[gunsrfun1]

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions. I conducted the "plunk test" this morning with 10 rounds of Federal and 10 rounds of Rem HP (don't have any more WWB), and all 20 rounds dropped in (and out) just fine. So I think I have eliminated the too-tight-chamber issue. I am guessing, as some of you suggested, that it's simply a matter of the geometry of the Federal round, or maybe the recoil spring (or maybe both). I recall having sent back a gun in the past (can't remember make or model, but it wasn't a Kimber) for a similar issue. All they did was replace the recoil spring, and the problem was solved. I also read of instances where a Commander came with the wrong recoil spring. So who knows.
I bought this as a range toy, and to be honest, after a few range sessions, I am finding that I prefer my full-size Kimber or my Springfield XDM 5.25 over the shorter-barrel Commander anyway. So I'm not sure this one will make it into my permanent collection.
Thanks again. As always, I can depend on THR for good answers.

 

[JTQ]

I recall having sent back a gun in the past (can't remember make or model, but it wasn't a Kimber) for a similar issue.

Just a data point, but the WilsonCombatRep on another forum has commented, 50% of their returns for service are fixed by properly lubricating the gun.

I don't know if that is your issue, but prior to the "Glock-era" and the "5 (or is it 6) drops of oil is all you need to lube your gun", and "you'll have problems if you use too much lube" mantra, guns need lube to work because they are machines with metal on metal friction. Sometimes properly lubing your gun will fix some of these problems.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Federals may be fouling the chamber. I had the same problem with a brand new Kimber UCC II. Powder residue left in a new tight "Kimber" chamber is what is causing the problem After a bit of experimenting with different powders the problem went away. Continue to shoot the gun and after a while it will except any and all manufacturer's ammunition. When Kimber says a new gun needs to be "broke in". They are correct. I can see the "burn" coming now. ALL MACHINERY MUST BE BROKE IN WHEN NEW.

ByTheWay. I carry that same Kimber UCC II daily.

 

[Zerodefect]

It's a new Kimber.

How smooth is the outside of the barrel? Machined finish on a sliding part...... Shoot it more, then see what happens. Lube it well.

 

[JR24]

Bullet shape or OAL would be my first two guesses, followed by dirtier powder fouling up a new gun.

I would just stick with what works.

I can't recall the shape of federal loads but I have had issues with truncated cone bullets in several guns in the past, IIRC a SR40c that flat refused to run them (and everything else fine)

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I would never think about sending a gun in because it didn't like one brand of target ammo.

There are too many variables to come to a conclusion now. A lot of the suggestions are good ones.

I wonder if your extractor is a little stiff.

In my experience, a lot of federal target ammo is charged really lightly.

Bottom line for me is that I think a break in period is BS and all it means is that the manufacturer chooses not to finish the gun. However, if they state outright the gun needs to be broken in, then keep shooting it and see how she does.

Might be the gun, might be the magazine, might be the ammo.

 

[Zerodefect]

Bottom line for me is that I think a break in period is BS and all it means is that the manufacturer chooses not to finish the gun. However, if they state outright the gun needs to be broken in, then keep shooting it and see how she does.
.

Kimber usually doesn't finish the outside of the barrel, and a few other moving parts properly. They let wear and tear finish it. So it's not BS with them, Kahr, and many other 1911's. FTRTB is common with brand new Kimbers.

If it shoots everything but Federal, there is no need to send it back. Try some Blazer (hotter Federal) if you'd like. And 1000 rounds later, run some full power HST through it. I'll bet it'll be fine by then.

As mentioned above, a new recoil spring ain't a bad idea.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Kimber usually doesn't finish the outside of the barrel, and a few other moving parts properly. They let wear and tear finish it. So it's not BS with them, Kahr, and many other 1911's.

Oh I wasn't saying that it's BS and they don't need a break in, I was saying that even requiring a break in is BS conceptually and that I don't agree that it's ok for a manufacturer to require it. I think the gun should run out of the box.

None the less, if the manufacturer says it need to be broken in, and Kimber does apparently, the end user doesn't really have a legit complaint until that break in period is over. They need to follow the manufacturer's requirements. Not to mention, if every gun was finished to the point it was a smooth running machine right out of the box, a lot of guns would be priced higher than anyone cares for.

 

[edwardware]

. . .
prior to the "Glock-era" and the "5 (or is it 6) drops of oil is all you need to lube your gun", and "you'll have problems if you use too much lube" mantra, guns need lube to work because they are machines with metal on metal friction.

Ditto that, but I didn't mention it since the OP has other 1911s. It took me a few rounds at the range to learn that 1911s like to run wet.