My kind of church I may have to convert
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dasmi
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Police question actions of gun-toting Royal Oak minister
Friday, March 25, 2005
ASSOCIATED PRESS
The Rev. Mark Byers believes in packing heat, even in the pulpit. He urges congregants to do the same. Police say that's a bad idea.
During one sermon at Calvary Christian Church, Byers says his handgun fell down his pants leg. He said he kicked it under the pulpit and kept preaching.
"I believe 100 percent in the Second Amendment," Byers, of Troy, told The Daily Tribune for a recent story. "I think it is a great privilege to be entrusted with the right to bear arms. I encourage anyone who will listen to get a CCW (concealed weapons permit)."
Royal Oak Police Chief Ted Quisenberry said the minister is within his rights. But he's concerned.
"It's our belief that any time you get large groups of people in a smaller space, especially in a space where they're emotionally heightened, the chances of something bad happening increase," he said. He said he considers it "almost inevitable" that something will go wrong.
Byers urges his congregants to get concealed weapons permits and carry firearms to church. He also tells them to go to the firing range to keep up their shooting skills.
"I certainly question the need to do something like this, but it seems like there's nothing we can do," the chief said. "We can't just arbitrarily set up outside the church and start shaking people down to make sure they have the proper permits."
The church building holds a school and a day care center, where police say it is illegal to carry a gun even with a concealed weapons permit.
After a warning from Quisenberry, Byers said he would keep guns out of the school and day care center. But he said the church has seen violent incidents in the past. Several years ago, a would-be carjacker at a nearby gas station tried to get into two Calvary church doors when 75 children were there for school and day care, Byers said.
"Fifty-five officers can't protect 30,000 people," the minister said.
Quisenberry said that even if people are trained in weaponry, accidents are too common in a roomful of guns.
"There's nothing to indicate there's criminal activity there, but there's always the chance that a woman could carry the gun in her purse, then get up and it's gone," the chief said.
Calvary's Web site describes it as an "evangelical, full gospel, non-denominational church," founded in 1934. Byers, 54, replaced his father-in-law there as minister in 1983.
Comments? Questions? You can reach us at The Freep
Uh oh, hear that? He's "concerned." Seems like whenever someone is concerned these days, we the people lose more of our rights. I have a suggestion for our Police Chief Buddy, catch criminals. Don't be concerned with church goers carrying guns.
Friday, March 25, 2005
ASSOCIATED PRESS
The Rev. Mark Byers believes in packing heat, even in the pulpit. He urges congregants to do the same. Police say that's a bad idea.
During one sermon at Calvary Christian Church, Byers says his handgun fell down his pants leg. He said he kicked it under the pulpit and kept preaching.
"I believe 100 percent in the Second Amendment," Byers, of Troy, told The Daily Tribune for a recent story. "I think it is a great privilege to be entrusted with the right to bear arms. I encourage anyone who will listen to get a CCW (concealed weapons permit)."
Royal Oak Police Chief Ted Quisenberry said the minister is within his rights. But he's concerned.
"It's our belief that any time you get large groups of people in a smaller space, especially in a space where they're emotionally heightened, the chances of something bad happening increase," he said. He said he considers it "almost inevitable" that something will go wrong.
Byers urges his congregants to get concealed weapons permits and carry firearms to church. He also tells them to go to the firing range to keep up their shooting skills.
"I certainly question the need to do something like this, but it seems like there's nothing we can do," the chief said. "We can't just arbitrarily set up outside the church and start shaking people down to make sure they have the proper permits."
The church building holds a school and a day care center, where police say it is illegal to carry a gun even with a concealed weapons permit.
After a warning from Quisenberry, Byers said he would keep guns out of the school and day care center. But he said the church has seen violent incidents in the past. Several years ago, a would-be carjacker at a nearby gas station tried to get into two Calvary church doors when 75 children were there for school and day care, Byers said.
"Fifty-five officers can't protect 30,000 people," the minister said.
Quisenberry said that even if people are trained in weaponry, accidents are too common in a roomful of guns.
"There's nothing to indicate there's criminal activity there, but there's always the chance that a woman could carry the gun in her purse, then get up and it's gone," the chief said.
Calvary's Web site describes it as an "evangelical, full gospel, non-denominational church," founded in 1934. Byers, 54, replaced his father-in-law there as minister in 1983.
Comments? Questions? You can reach us at The Freep
Uh oh, hear that? He's "concerned." Seems like whenever someone is concerned these days, we the people lose more of our rights. I have a suggestion for our Police Chief Buddy, catch criminals. Don't be concerned with church goers carrying guns.
EghtySx
Member
I nominate this guy for master of bassackward logic. Obviously people get excited over religion. Having a gun doesn't make you mind your manners. Everyone in the place having guns however, does make you think before you speak or act. No way are you gonna pull yours on someone knowing that every God fearing adult in the room is carrying.
Hmmm, kinda makes ya wonder where we get old sayings from. "An armed society is a polite society."
When you hear people speak out, you know, "those" people, their statements almost invariably seem to be the exact opposite of a statement made at some point history by someone widely considered to be a great thinker. I mean, it seems to me that if you are going to make a public statement of almost any kind you would check and make sure you aren't contradicting Einstein or Plato or someone like that.
Braz
Member
The Chief doesn't trust civilians,
Cops are in emotionally charged situations every day. They are armed, yet somehow manage to avoid "something going wrong".
Cops are in emotionally charged situations every day. They are armed, yet somehow manage to avoid "something going wrong".
Sam
Member
Works for me.
As for the "Chief", he's full of fecal material.
Sam
As for the "Chief", he's full of fecal material.
Sam
SpookyPistolero
Member
It's so hard to stomach high-ranking police officers playing politician. They are such a major part in aiding to erode our rights, because hey, what else would a cop have in mind other than everyones safety?
I really have never understood what people must believe those of us with concealed carry permits do with our weapons. Do they think we get them out and play with them when the mood suits us? Or that we can't help but get them out simply for the reason that, in one way or another, our emotions are running slightly higher? I suggest that they do not trust us in those situations because they know how weak they are personally and don't trust themselves when their emotions run high.
Yup, whenever I start getting emotional, and especially when in large groups of people, my first instinct is to remove my weapon from its holster ( do they even conceive what a holster is???) and start shooting at the first thing that upsets me. I mean, how could anyone not turn into a cave man when holding a weapon?
Why let facts and history get in the way...
:banghead:
I really have never understood what people must believe those of us with concealed carry permits do with our weapons. Do they think we get them out and play with them when the mood suits us? Or that we can't help but get them out simply for the reason that, in one way or another, our emotions are running slightly higher? I suggest that they do not trust us in those situations because they know how weak they are personally and don't trust themselves when their emotions run high.
Yup, whenever I start getting emotional, and especially when in large groups of people, my first instinct is to remove my weapon from its holster ( do they even conceive what a holster is???) and start shooting at the first thing that upsets me. I mean, how could anyone not turn into a cave man when holding a weapon?
Why let facts and history get in the way...
:banghead:Havegunjoe
Member
Why is the cheif opening his trap at all.
All he should have said if asked was it is the Pastor's Constitutional right. End of statement. Instead he has to garce us with his wisdom. :banghead:
Maybe if that church in Wisconsin that had the shooting a few weeks ago had a plastor like this one, many lives would have been saved.
All he should have said if asked was it is the Pastor's Constitutional right. End of statement. Instead he has to garce us with his wisdom. :banghead:
Maybe if that church in Wisconsin that had the shooting a few weeks ago had a plastor like this one, many lives would have been saved.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Another vicious little wannabe Hitler heard from.
fistful
member
That pastor is doing one of two things if he feels the need to strap during his sermons: Preaching too long or condemning sin a little too specifically. 
Emotionally heightened? Guess I better not carry in my truck, what with the idiots in traffic and the numbskulls on talk radio. They make me so angry!
So, if the church is sedate enough, the guns would be ok? One of those liturgical, high-church kind of places? How about synagogues or Buddhist temples? Too much emotion there? Are we assuming here that the only people who would carry guns are screaming, shouting, fanatical, abortion-clinic bombers, prone to jump pews and handle snakes?
Emotionally heightened? Guess I better not carry in my truck, what with the idiots in traffic and the numbskulls on talk radio. They make me so angry!
marshall3
Member
Pastors who carry
I am a pastor, and I encourage all my church members to exercise all of their Constitutional rights, even in church. If you don't use your rights, you lose your rights. I carry the ideal pocket gun:
http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal2.htm
and an elder in our church carries either a ppk380, or the new Ruger 345.
We will probably NEVER need to use our weapons. I sincerely hope NOT. But still, you never know when some Wisconsin situation might happen. Better to be ready than sorry.
I am a pastor, and I encourage all my church members to exercise all of their Constitutional rights, even in church. If you don't use your rights, you lose your rights. I carry the ideal pocket gun:
http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal2.htm
and an elder in our church carries either a ppk380, or the new Ruger 345.
We will probably NEVER need to use our weapons. I sincerely hope NOT. But still, you never know when some Wisconsin situation might happen. Better to be ready than sorry.
Redneck Revolver
Member
thats extreamly close to me...looks like im going back to god 
Rabid Rabbit
Member
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"Quisenberry said that even if people are trained in weaponry, accidents are too common in a roomful of guns."
Is this a comment about how their police have accidents during their rollcall or shift meetings? As far being emotionaly heightened should we then disarm all police when there is a funeral for a police or fireman? The guy is an idiot.
Is this a comment about how their police have accidents during their rollcall or shift meetings? As far being emotionaly heightened should we then disarm all police when there is a funeral for a police or fireman? The guy is an idiot.
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