my new remington 870 police magnum is a lemon!!!

[Robert Hairless]

Boots:

and i really didn't like their response...they make it seem like i did something radical to repair the gun, but in reality, all i tried to do was put the latch where it's supposed to go, and when it was put back, it poppped right back out after a few cycles...

Boots, in all fairness the dealer can't know anything more about that shotgun after you got it than what you told him. Neither can we.

What you told him and us both is "i restaked the latch and reassemble the gun." The dealer's response to your statement is reasonable.

If you did restake the latch, you did do something radical to repair the gun and you probably voided the factory warranty. If you did not restake the latch, you shouldn't have said so: you confused the dealer, us, and the situation.

Olde English Outfitters is a reputable company. It's been in business for quite a while. Mitch English, one of the proprietors, is a moderator on the 1911 Forum as "Guy Sajer." Although I don't know him, he's clearly someone who spends his own time helping gun owners.

Whatever momentary gratification these angry complaints on the Internet might give the poster, they create a lot of sound and fury and rarely seem to accomplish anything except confusion.

Note: I wrote this message shortly after you posted your last message but was interrupted before I could post it. After I posted it I saw that in the interim Lee Lapin responded with my major point. He speaks good sense.

 

[boots]

well, sorry for the confusion..i guess i used the wrong words to describe the situation...

the latch popped out, i popped it back in with my fingers...it popped back out...better???

 

[boots]

bottom line is that i got a pos gun that would've got me killed if i needed it in a sd situation...i'm lucky i tested it...


as of now, i am extremely angry and i hope that these people send me a new one and i can send this one back...i don't feel i should have to send it in to remington for repair...i think olde english outfitters should handle the problem...the problem was not caused by me...they sold me a pos...if i had even fired one round, maybe i could be to blame, but this gun has not even fired one round, and it is not working...i'd rather get a new one from olde english outfitters, and let them deal with sending the defective gun to remington...as far as i'm concerned, the defect shouldn't even be my problem...

 

[guy sajer]

boots

I'm sorry , but I don't know your name .

I don't mind handling this "out in the open" and I assume since I'm reading here you don't either .


I apologize for the mishap with the gun coming to your house ! Inexcusable and careless on our part !

For those accusing us of selling used guns as new , please pause before you click the submit button and accuse someone of dishonesty when you don't know the facts . You've evidently had some bad dealings with the wrong dealers . As a family company in business since 1974 , we have a solid reputation in our OH,IN,KY area as well as with dealers and customers across the country . We sell 5-6k guns yearly and besides being dishonest , the amt of money we'd benefit by passing off a used gun as "new" is miniscule . Our family name is worth more than any dollar amount to us ! In short , we find it best to tell the truth ... As long as I'm explaining things , we bought 15 of them last year from a distributor closing them out . Williams Shooters Supply . Sold 7-8 in our store and the rest online . None left . It was a great deal for everyone(except the distributor) . We made money and the customers got a deal .

...i restaked the latch and reassemble the gun...

You need to call the store and talk to Kirt Cornell the Warehouse Manager on Monday about the return.

I wish you had not restaked the latch and notified us of the problem before you did that on your own, this may cause us not to be able to return the shotgun to Remington. You doing that makes it not in the condition you received it or in the condition we received it from Remington.

As for our response (I wasn't aware of any problem until this thread showed up) , I don't see anything out of the ordinary with regards to accepted online sales return procedures . If you're not happy with the product , return it in the SAME condition that it left for a full refund . After telling our web sales representative that you "restaked the latch" , I can see his position . His response also seems professional and not disrespectful in the least . He didn't say "no" , only that it may cause a problem with the return . He requested you phone Kirt our warehouse manager . Kirt would've conferred with me and we'd have made a decision and the situation would've been resolved .

as of now, i am extremely angry and i hope that these people send me a new one and i can send this one back...i don't feel i should have to send it in to remington for repair...i think olde english outfitters should handle the problem...the problem was not caused by me...they sold me a pos...if i had even fired one round, maybe i could be to blame, but this gun has not even fired one round, and it is not working...i'd rather get a new one from olde english outfitters, and let them deal with sending the defective gun to remington...as far as i'm concerned, the defect shouldn't even be my problem...

I believe a phone call to us in the beginning telling us that it won't cycle the shells would've saved you any extreme anger .

How about this ? Assuming the gun and packaging are undamaged & complete and there are no "smithing" marks , send the gun back and we'll send you a refund .

I don't see that we did anything to cause distress here , but I apologize that you had a bad experience involving our store .

The store is open on Monday 11-8 EST . I will let Kirt know you will be phoning to arrange it's return for refund . I will be back in the store on Tues 11-6 EST . 937-667-3315
Other contact info in my signature line link .

mitch english

 

[nathan]

I thnk he wants a replacement /a working gun , and not a refund.

 

[boots]

to guy sager,


i am hotheaded by nature, and apologize for taking my frustrations out on your business in public...i just assumed the worst about your business when the gun arrived at my house instead of the ffl address that was provided...i'm sure you are an honest man, and if possible, i would prefer an exchange rather than a refund...i used the wrong words when describing the situation and in no way did i change the condition of the gun....i didn't even use any tools to correct the malfunction...when i said that i "restaked" the latch, i was only refering to the fact that i popped the latch back into the receiver cutout with my hands...no tools were ever used...i can assure you that the gun is in the same exact condition as i received it...


i sincerely apologize for calling you out in public, as this was a matter that could have been easily solved over the telephone...your response on this forum shows me that you are willing to make this situation right, and i would still like to do business with you in the future...as i've said before, i would appreciate a simple exchange, but if a refund is all you can offer, i understand...

you know where to reach me, and thanks for your time...

 

[boots]

pm sent to guy sager

 

[guy sajer]

I thnk he wants a replacement /a working gun , and not a refund.

... , we bought 15 of them last year from a distributor closing them out . Williams Shooters Supply . Sold 7-8 in our store and "the rest online" .

I understand your frustration and inconvenience . We will refund you as that is our only recourse . Please make arrangements for it's return tomorrow with our man Kirt .

Thank you .

 

[dfariswheel]

A loose shell latch is a factory defect and should be corrected.

Some observations:

$400.00 is a suspiciously low price for a new in the box Remington Police gun.
I saw actual dealer prices on Police guns last Fall, and the cheapest Remington Police gun had a distributor price of $480.00.
So, your FFL Dealer sold you a gun for about $80.00 LESS than probably charged them by the distributor they bought it from.

Something smells funny.

Second, a snap cap IS NOT suitable for use to check feeding of any gun. Snap caps are just that, snap caps.
If you want to check feed and cycling of a gun, you need Action Proving Dummies sold by Brownell's.
Unlike snap caps, action dummies are the EXACT size, weight, and even balance of real ammo.

Snap caps are undersized and offer no real aid in checking feed or cycling.

 

[nathan]

And to say it was sent directly to his address which is a violation of BATF and State laws. That even cause more question ... How can that happen? You send firearms by first checking the recipient is a legal arms dealer/FFL.

 

[guy sajer]

Something smells funny.

I believe I have explained the origin of the deal/price satisfactorily . What are you suggesting ? You want me to post a copy of the invoice ??

 

[nathan]

I see an employee isnt doing what he needs to do, i e , to double check if the recipient of said firearm is a FFL dealer.

 

[MAX100]

It sounds right what guy sajer said about how he was able to sale the 870 P so cheap. It is true, dealer distributors will mark down guns on closeout specials. RSR Group did the same thing a couple years back when they dropped Ruger and Navy Arms from their lineup. They were selling Ruger and Navy Arms firearms to dealers dirt cheap just to get rid of them fast. I was able to pick up some very good deals, basically stoled the guns, and was able to pass the savings on to my customers.

The QC problem with the 870P is Remington's fought and problem. Olde English Outfitters is getting blamed and having to clean up after Remington. It's part of doing business.


GC

 

[Dave McCracken]

Lee's right, again.

FWIW, the left latch on my 870TB would fall out when the TG was dropped. A good smith restaked it in about 5 minutes.

And, Amen on old 870s. Might look around for some more myself, heh,heh....

 

[DevilDog0402]

Get your money back and buy a Mossberg 590

 

[boots]

i will be getting a refund...


they were very courteous on the phone and i foresee no problems with the return...they have even offered to pay for the shipping...


the problem can be attributed to remington itself and not the olde englishe outfitters business...when i initially purchased the firearms, they shipped my product in a timely fashion, and have done everything to make the situation right...i wish i had not talked about them in public, as they are very good people, who are willing to fix the situation as best they can...


and for the people saying that the price seems low, it is low because it is not the new parkerized police model with extension and fancy tactical stocks....it is a standard blued model with wood stocks and no extension...the price of 399 including shipping is indeed very low, but not suspicious...it just could've been a great deal for me...too bad i have to get a refund...


THANK YOU GUY SAGER...I WOULD DEFINITELY DO BUSINESS AGAIN IN THE FUTURE...

 

[huduguru]

Get a Norinco 982, 1/4 the price and it's a better weapon....

 

[PMK]

remingtons qc

I to have lost faith in Remington guns, there QC is terrable, I spent bid bucks on a 11-87 sp 3.5 waterfoul gun, and it was the biggest piece of junk, and I was not about to try to have it fixed, because it has so many problems. It would jam 5 different way, how could that ever be fixed, i saw years of problems, and several returns. I traded it in on a winchester sx3, and it is 10X the gun hands down. I will never buy another Remington again, and i used to be there biggest supporter, and still own several older remingtons that do work right.

 

[nathan]

http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal....3914&CatTreeID=591161&L2CatId=591161&L1CatID=

Norc 982 on sale at Big 5 yall. The remy 870 and Mossberg 590 , too.

 

[axeman_g]

I hate to say this but I will... every person in this thread that hinted or insunated that Olde English and therefore Guy Sajer as boss where up to no good, trying to pawn off defective firearms for a "good" price or something worse need to pony up an apology. One tried and proven truism was just exampled here.... If your going to jump into something you know nothing about... keep your mouth closed. Or better yet... "It is better to keep ones mouth closed and appear the fool then to open it and remove all doubt." Ben Franklin.

Boots, I am glad you are going to get some satisfaction. I hope you picked up on the thought that with a little patience and improved communication most if not all conflicts can resolved quickly and ammicably.

 

[CA2005]

I think this point has already been made/proven, but I just wanted to add that Guy Sager and Olde English Outfitters are some of the best people I've had the honor of interacting with. I've been doing business with them for a decade now since USAF service "relocated" me to their area. They are 100% honest, good natured and genuine caring people with a steller rep throughout SW Ohio and beyond. I trust them to the fullest extent.

Boots, keep looking and another deal like that might emerge. You never know.

 

[proud2deviate]

I hate to say this but I will... every person in this thread that hinted or insunated that Olde English and therefore Guy Sajer as boss where up to no good, trying to pawn off defective firearms for a "good" price or something worse need to pony up an apology.

You're right.

While I wasn't overly impressed with the seller's initial email response, it has been shown that it was the result of a small misunderstanding/miscommunication.

In any case, my commentary about the OP's "worthless trading partner" was unduly harsh, immature, and rooted in ignorance. Mr. Sajer has my sincere apologies.

 

[redneck2]

While I wasn't overly impressed with the seller's initial email response, it has been shown that it was the result of a small misunderstanding/miscommunication.

In any case, my commentary about the OP's "worthless trading partner" was unduly harsh, immature, and rooted in ignorance. Mr. Sajer has my sincere apologies.

This is why I no longer work in retail. The dealer is going to have to eat this, even though he had no way of knowing the gun may have been defective. If somebody told me they'd done some home "gunsmithing", I'd be more leery than they were. I used to work in a gun shop. I've seem some of the fine work individuals have done, typically with a chisel and sledge hammer.

I can't believe the string of guys here that have accused him of being a thief, cheat, and liar. Seems like "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts" applies

i am hotheaded by nature, and apologize for taking my frustrations out on your business in public...

Controlling your emotions makes life much more enjoyable for yourself and everyone that has contact with you.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Guys, let's put this thread to rest. It's all over. The principals have come to an honorable resolution that satisfies them both. No need to keep the fires burning. Nothing more to see here.

 

[scorpionjcd]

Ive got a question. What is the chances of me getting a deffected gun from remington? Im planning on getting the MM and I dont want to pay that much money for something that is deffected.