My "New Shooter Training Shells (NSTS)" are a success! :D

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Yesterday, Logan, my 9 year old nephew expressed an interest in shotguns, specifically skeet and trap shooting, basically, he wants to try his hand at shooting my shotgun

Thing is, the smallest shotgun I have available for him is my H&R Topper Deluxe Classic 20 gauge, and the TDC can best be described as "overbuilt", it's an 8-9 pound shotgun, he had little trouble hefting it to his shoulder, but keeping it held there would be problematic, or as he said

"it's too heavy for me to hold up right now"

The solution is simple then....
I need to buy another shotgun, one that fits him ;) and this afternoon, at KTP, I found a likely candidate, a used but in 98% condition H&R Topper 158 in 20 gauge, it's got a 28" Modified choke barrel, the false color case hardening looks brand new, and the pallet wood stocks have nice grain and character to them, all for $75, so, I put the gun on 7 day hold because KTP was absolutely packed today, I'll go back and get it midweek, can't go wrong with a nearly-new Topper for $75, heck, that's two weeks worth of gas with today's gas prices...

Anyway, to the point of this thread, I wanted to get Logan into shotgunning, but not intimidate him, so far he's only had experience with BB and pellet guns, neither have any recoil, so jumping right into a shotgun with full power trap/recreational loads, or even the Winchester WinLites may be a little much for him.....

I have a 20 gauge reloading press though, and that got me thinking, there has to be a way of loading up some low-power, quiet plinking/training rounds, I had read a while back about SM's "popcorn rounds" and it got me thinking, one problem I see with popcorn is the fact that they are not uniform in shape, oval, teardrop with a point at the end, but they are light weight, so minimal powder charge is neccesary

then I had a brainstorm...

Airsoft BB's! they're uniformly round, light weight, and designed to be used as projectiles, I went back to KTP, picked up some shotgun wad columns, and a small bottle of Crosman "heavyweight" (.20 gram) biodegradable airsoft BB's and some 209 primers

back at home, I grabbed some Winchester AA hulls out of my bin of fired shells and set up the reloader, I wanted to work up a load that had no recoil, and was quiet, hopefully quiet enough to not require hearing protection (even though Logan and I will be using hearing protection) I started with two loads;

1; primer only, no gunpowder, this one worked, sort of, the airsoft pellets left the barrel and hit the target 20 feet away with a wide pattern, the report was nearly silent, the click of the hammer and the thwack of the pellets hitting the target were louder than the report, the load threw a very wide pattern, but the wad column had stopped about half of the way down the barrel and had to be pushed out with a dowel

2; 3.5 grains of Unique, this one *almost* worked, it was only a little louder than the primer only load, the pattern once again was wide, and the wad column stopped 3/4 of the way down the barrel, once again being pushed out with a dowel

3; 6 grains of Unique, this one almost was a complete success, just a slightly louder "pop" upon firing, and this time the wad column stopped right at the choke tube, pulling the choke tube allowed me to easily push it out, clearly the choke tube restriction was too tight, oh well, back to KTP for a third time (thankfully I live a quick 5 minute drive away ;) )

I picked up a used Improved Cylinder choke tube, came home and swapped out my Trulock Modified tube for the Winchester Imp. Cyl

I tried load #3 again, and this time the shot pattern tightened up dramatically, *AND*.....

The wad exited the barrel completely! :D

So, looks like I have a training round that works, the recipe is;
Winchester AA hull
Federal 209 primer
6 grains of Unique
Federal 20 gauge one piece wad column
Airsoft BB's (approx 20 BB's)

I'm going to try a couple different variants, maybe up the powder charge to 6.2 grains or so to insure the wad leaves the barrel, maybe try some Trail Boss powder instead as it's fluffy and will fill the gap between the wad piston and primer flash hole better

Now, Logan will have some training rounds to use with the Topper 152 when I get it home, the 152 is a bit lighter than the TDC, and with the training rounds I'm loading up, recoil will be a non issue

Personally, I'm not a fan of airsoft or airsofters, I think it sets a bad precedent for beginning shooters, using realistic looking firearm mimics to shoot at each other, it's willful breaking of Cooper's Four Rules and I find that troubling, it teaches airsofters (the younger kids mainly) that it's "okay" to shoot at other people because "it's just airsoft", but the ammo is useful for shotgun training shells
 
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I don't even own a shotgun.

This is tempting me to find a gun store that's open at midnight on a sunday night in order to rectify that.
 
You sir have piqued my interest, maybe I will see if one of the local reloaders is willing to try and make a few of these up for me. I have a few friends that shy away from my shotgun because it's so loud, this would be a better way to ease them into it.
 
A few caveats on my NSTS;
They should *ONLY* be used in a break-action shotgun, as there is always a chance that the wad may stick in the barrel, the barrel must be verified as clear after each shot

You should have something to push stuck wads out with handy

These shells will not cycle the action of an autoloader, and once again should *ONLY* be used in a break action gun

The effective range is measured in feet, not yards

The pellets are traveling slow enough for the shooter to see them leave the barrel and watch the pattern form in flight

They should not be shot at hard surfaces due to an increased propensity to ricochet

They have sufficient energy to break an EOF that's resting against a styrofoam archery block target 15 feet away and can mash a potato that's started to get black and oozy

At the 6 grain powder load level, they tend to prefer more open chokes, Cyl or Imp. Cyl would work the best, more powder may make them work better with tighter chokes but the shells would get louder as well, 6Gn is a good compromise between noise and velocity

I just thought up an impromptu NSTS game just now…

"Can-Skeet"
Take an empty aluminum soda can, or plastic soda bottle, have one person throw it and the shooter with the NSTS shotgun blow the can out of the sky, be sure to clean upthe cans/bottles when done though
 
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Just had an informal test of my NSTS against a shaken up can of soda....

Shell; 20Ga NSTS shell loaded with 6 grains of Unique and 16 .20 gram Airsoft BB's
Firearm; H&R Topper Deluxe Classic 20Ga single shot, 28" barrel with Improved Cyl. choke tube
Distance; 20 feet
Target; shaken-up can of Diet Sunkist orange soda

One round fired
Results?
web.jpg

web.jpg

web.jpg


Thus proving that just because they're airsoft BB's, it doesn't make them "safe", when hit, the can looked like it *exploded*, and jumped about a foot in the air and ended up about 1.5 feet back from the target stand

the entrance hole is the large ragged hole in the front, the exit hole is the tear to the rear
 
Hmm, upon closer investigation and forensic tests, I think picture #2 is the entrance wound, I can see the inward-torn pellet holes and there are dents on the opposite side of the can, more than likely the hydrostatic shock created by the shot cloud hitting the can blew out the sides of the can, either way, it was dramatic

I found an even cheaper source for cans of carbonated liquid, a local New England chain grocery store, Market Basket (previously known as DeMoulas) has their store brand that's dirt cheap, I picked up a 12 pack of M-B seltzer water (plain carbonated water, nothing more) for $3, since I find seltzer water highly unpalatable, I won't be tempted to drink it, just shoot it, the Diet Sunkist, even though it's disgusting diet crap, at least has caffiene in it, so it's slightly more palatable than coffee

at some point I'll pick up a cheap seltzer bottle that uses CO2 cartridges and use it to refill soda bottles for even cheaper "Blow-Em-Up" 'splodey carbonated water fun
 
I got my kids a Rossi 20 ga. They also don't like the recoil of even target loads. I think I'll look into this idea. I agree, trail boss is probably a better powder, but I have Unique already.

Blackhorn 209 might work too. I want to try some of it in my muzzleloader anyhow.


I made a reduced load for the muzzleloader for my son, I used about 40g of pyrodex and a .490 ball. It recoiled only a bit more than a .22 and the smoke cloud was really small. My son loved it. The .22 is still his favorite, though.
 
I've often wondered why some manufacturer doesn't make youth loads. A 20 gauge shell could be loaded with 3/4 oz. of shot at 1000 to 1100 feet per second. It would not only have minimal recoil, but it would be very effective for rabbits, squirrel and doves.
 
Echoing multiguage -- this sounds like a viable commercial product! I am a novice reloader, and only rarely shoot shutguns (I'm reading THR's shotgun section on a lark today ;)), but if I get into shotgunning any more frequently, would like to expand my reloading plans, too. But in the meantime, it'd be fun to shoot some of these!

timothy
 
I did that years ago in my Winchester 1300, might have been the extra full turkey choke or the cheap airsoft bb's I used but they were shattered into dust and the wad stuck in the barrel. Glad to hear ya got it workin for ya
 
Jimkirk, I've shot those WinLites in my 12 and 20 gauges and they are exactly what they say, 50% less noise and recoil, thing is, they still have *some* recoil as they need enough propellant to effectively deliver their shot payload to the target at normal shotgunning distances.

my NST shells are designed mainly to be quiet and have no recoil, and as I posted upthread, have a range listed in *feet*, perfect for introducing new/inexperienced/timid shooters to shotgunning, they have just a tad more noise than a CCI CB Long .22 and no recoil whatsoever, not even in a H&R Pardner Compact 20 gauge

Icebones, if you were shooting your training rounds through an extra-full turkey choke that's probably the issue right there, that and maybe having too light of a powder charge

with a Trulock Mod choke in my H&R Topper Deluxe Classic, I get about a 50/50 rate of stuck/clear wads, when I replace the Mod with a Imp. Cyl. choke tube, I get a 95% success rate, today I shot a dozen of my NSTS and only had *one* stick in the barrel and it was right before the choke tube, I probably had slightly undercharged the powder load in that shell

6 grains Unique seems to be the bare minimum for the wad to clear the barrel, 6.2 to 6.3 would probably give a decent margin of error without getting too loud

Logan tried out my TDC today with a NSTS, he's able to hold the gun up on his own long enough to pop soda cans, but a full game of trap would be pushing it, those are his words directly

Lets just say Logan is now truly hooked on shotguns now, thanks to my NSTS, we started off with tap water filled VitaminWater bottles, starting off by letting him shoot them with my Benjamin 392 .22 pellet rifle, so he can see how accurate and precise a rifle is, but also how it's easier to miss if you're not dead-on with the gun.

I then took my TDC, had him put on hearing protection, set up a new water filled vitamin water bottle, and shot from the same distance, hitting the bottle and knocking it over, the NSTS don't have enough power to break through the plastic of the bottle or even ricochet back, we inspected the dents it put in the bottle and he saw how the spread of shot pellets from a shotgun made it far likelier to score a hit, especially on a moving target

We then moved in closer and shot again, once again, not breaking the plastic, no ricochet, but the dents were closer together and showed more cracking/crazing in the plastic, Logan now understands how a shotgun can be devistating close in

we closed out the shooting session with the traditional "Soda (water) *pop*", we each took a can of disgusting, unpalatable, icky seltzer water, set it up on the target stand, and fired with the NSTS

I shot first (I gave him the option to go first, but he wanted me to go first), not bothering to shake up the can, Logan asked why I didn't shake the can, I told him it wasn't neccesary, you'll see...

The shot hit home, and the can of repulsive, evil carbonated water *exploded* in a shower of loathsome nastiness, Logan shouted with joy "Whoa, that was *COOL!*, I ejected the shell, put the gun down on my shooting rug, muzzle downrange, after showing Logan it was clear, we then called cold range and went down to look at the damage

Once again, the can was *shredded*, gaping holes on both sides where the can overpressurized and ruptured, the shot cloud was decently tight and hit mostly dead center, there was no doubt that the evil can of seltzer would no longer be tormenting anyone with it's horrible lack of flavor

Logan put his can on the target stand, took the shotgun, loaded the shell closed the action, brought the gun to his shoulder and thumbed the hammer back, I told him how to line up the bead on the can, and said fire when ready....

Logan's can o' nastiness leaped sideways, spinning with the impact and spewing vile carbonated ickiness through a gaping hole in the side, he handed the gun back to me, beaming with joy, I broke the gun open, safed it and we went downrange to inspect the damage

Cool, I ripped the side open!
yep, you killed it dead, so what do you think about shotguns
I like it, it's really cool, it totally destroyed that can....

Yep, he's hooked for sure

...just wait until this evening when I set a can of soda on the stand and hit it with my H&R .17HMR with a 17 grain Hornady V-Max though.... <evil grin>

I then told him about my H&R Pardner Compact, smaller, lighter, more his size, but a bit louder than the TDC even with my NSTS, that one we'll need to shoot at the range, and I'll use the Winchester WinLites and a slip-on Limbsaver pad to keep the recoil manageable for him, maybe load up some 28-gauge level loads in the 20 gauge hulls

Y'know, I just realized something, I had as much fun with my NST shells as Logan did, maybe even more, they're a way that I can use my shotgun at home without disturbing the neighbors or having to take the 15 minute drive to the range, they're just plain fun to shoot, sure they have a range measured in feet, not yards, but they're just plain fun

and there's just something vaguely strange, sinister, and "not right" about a shotgun that makes less noise than a .22 when fired, it's almost like a "supressed" shotgun
 
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I have a 1/2 oz 20 ga load that I use for those thoroughly intimidated by any shotgun. In a pre '77 20 ga Rem 870 Magnum (12 ga frame) they have minimal recoil at best. I have no idea what the recoil would be like in a single shot but it probably wouldn't be much. They are also effective on small birds like dove and pen raised quail out to 20 yards or out to 30 yards on clays depending on how much belly is showing. Best yet, the wad clears a 28" barrel every time regardless of choke and they even operate the gas system of my Beretta 390 with the heavies spring in place.
With your loads, I would feel much better with a tad bit more powder to ensure the wad exits the barrel every time. Even with a break action it is all too possible to let the guard down for a second and miss a stuck wad. The amount of powder and its burning characteristics would probably not cause any damage but I am a worry wart in that regard.
Otherwise, its a great idea in getting one started in wingshooting.
 
Just a quick update, I've increased the powder charge to 7 grains of Unique, and so far have had a 100% success rate on the wad leaving the barrel, even with my fixed Modified choke H&R Pardner Compact 20 Gauge, at the previous 6 grain load I was getting a 15% or so stuck wad rate, and had a fiberglass blackpowder ramrod with me to get the stuck wads out

the new 7 grain NSTS loads are barely louder than the 6 grain loads out of the Pardner Compact, and also make this cool "Pop-Whistle" sound when fired

And I don't think I could have found a more perfect gun for the NSTS than the Pardner Compact, it's light, pointable, and just plain *fun* with these shells, I think I have more fun with them than Logan does, I think I'm going to stop calling them NSTS loads, and just call them what they *ARE* FunShells™

Now I need a 12-gauge press so I can make some FunShells™ for my 12-gauge guns

The only downside of these shells is that they are dirty, not sure if it's due to the Unique powder, or what, but after a dozen or so shells, the barrel needs a good swabbing

I think the next thing I'm going to try is some FunShells™ loaded with Trail Boss powder, So I just loaded some up, 7 grains of TB, everything else was the same, the TB loads had a slightly sharper report to them, still nice and quiet though, the Unique loads have more of a "ploomp" sound when fired, the Trail Boss loads have more of a "crack", they also seem to hit a tad harder, and leave far less residue behind, much cleaner burning than Unique, I'd imagine if I drop the TB load to 6.5 grains, the sound level should drop, yet the wad should exit the barrel consistently

So, now there are two FunShell loads; 7 grains of Unique, or 7 grains of Trail Boss, Unique is quieter but dirtier, Trail Boss is louder and cleaner
 
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Thanks for the update.

Unique burns dirty for me in shotguns. Wasn't so bad in 38s and 44 Mag.
 
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