My Reason For Cleaning My Guns

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PCCUSNRET

PCCUSNRET

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Was reading a thread the other day where folks were debating how long to wait before cleaning their guns. For me, it is normally every time I come back from the range. The cleaning patches in the photo were from only 25 rounds of .223 (5 Hornady, 10 reloads with H322 and 10 reloads with H335.

Patches.jpg


It may be a few weeks before I shoot this gun again so I can't believe it would be good for this residue to sit in the gun during this time. It only took one round to foul the bore before my groups were under 1 1/2". The only time I don't clean the bore after going to the range is during hunting season. I normally go to the range a day or two before the season opens and fire 3 or 4 shots to make sure sights are still aligned and to foul the bore. I have been shooting for over 45 years now (22 of which were in the military) and this is what I was taught as a kid and will pass it down to my grandchildren. Why anyone would put their guns up dirty for a long period is beyond me.

Butch's bore cleaner and oil is my choice for a proper cleaning and Hodgdon H322 and H335 are both excellent powder for the .223 Rem.
 
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That's how I've always done it as well, every time I shoot. Sometimes when I'm really bored and can't get to the range I will field strip one from the collection and wipe everything down with a lil bit of CLP.. Even though it's clean... I think I have issues.
 
and you're not alone... some people build models, some watch movies, i clean guns. It's a constructive pass time, and stress relieving.
 
It is good to read all of your post. After reading them I feel less excessive. I really don't think I'm OCD, but I clean everything I shoot as soon as I get home.

Now I probably only break everything all the way down about once every 6 months.

.....Tentwing
 
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...and it also gives you a chance to eye ball the gun and small parts. You may catch a failure "ni progress" or just before damage to you or the gun. That would be a win in several ways!

Mark
 
If I shoot more than a few rounds i'll clean it soon after shooting. Alot of times I only shoot a couple rounds and don't feel the need to clean it. Now this only applies to non corrosive ammo. I also get bored and grab something out of the safe to tear apart and clean it. If you have more than just a couple guns it really helps to remember how to tear it apart and put it back together.
 
Let me tell you why some folks put em up dirty. It's the simple fact that once you get a gun to where you KNOW it will hit at a certain range or KNOW it will group a certain way the best thing you can do is NOT MESS WITH IT. I. E. put it in a corner or something. My dad hammered that home to me one time when he whipped out a 6mm Rem Ruger M77V sporting a Weaver K6 just to prove a point. That rifle had not been shot in close to a decade and was not clean. He layed it over a blanket on a truck hood and fired off a 1.5 inch group at 200 yds with the first three shots. He said "When I pull that rifle out I KNOW Im gonna hit."
 
mshootnit, that's why i don't clean dedicated deer rifles during deer season. the rest of them get more attention then. you make a great point though.
 
I can understand why people clean their guns out of sheer compulsion, how they get theraputic value out of it, and so on. But to not clean it because it's sighted in? I understand that with rimfires, a little fouling is good for groups. But centerfire? I bought a Weatherby Vanguard before they stopped putting the MOA-guarantee targets in the boxes with them. Now if my gun could shoot sub-MOA off the factory floor, is cleaning the barrel really going to throw it off that much?
 
Now if my gun could shoot sub-MOA off the factory floor, is cleaning the barrel really going to throw it off that much?
Click to expand...

It very well can. Whether a barrel is fouled or not can drastically impact POI. First shot is a flyer, the next four are touching, that sort of thing. Cold bores can sometimes do the same, depending on the barrel.

There are basically two schools of thought on "to clean or not to clean". One is to sight the rifle in with a squeaky clean barrel, and keep it that way all the time, making the first shot the one that the rifle is sighted in for, the other school is to keep it fouled and sight it in that way, and clean just when it "needs it".


Jason
 
If I understand correctly, that's how weatherby shoots their test targets, 3 shots out of a cold barrel. So I think my question is still valid, if a brand new gun with a cold barrel can shoot a .75 three shot group, how much harm is cleaning the barrel going to do?
 
barrels get worn out and crown/muzzle damage from over and improper cleaning.
I use the foaming bore cleaners and seem to get good results. An oiled patch through a clean barrel can simulate a fouled barrel according to Gunwerks.
 
Very interesting topic. I've never heard of this line of reasoning.

Does this usually only hold true for rifles, for those that practice the "once per hunting season cleaning" regimen?

Or does it seem to work with handguns and rifled slug shotgun barrels, too?

Thanks.
 
If you clean from the chamber end of the barrel, you won't damage the crown. If the rifle I am using for a hunt shoots better with a fouled bore, I will shoot it a few times before the hunt.

I clean my rifles every time I shoot because most of the ammo I shoot is surplus and is most likely corrosive. My pistols I clean when they show to be dirty. I clean my shotguns every time I shoot them. chris3
 
If I understand correctly, that's how weatherby shoots their test targets, 3 shots out of a cold barrel. So I think my question is still valid, if a brand new gun with a cold barrel can shoot a .75 three shot group, how much harm is cleaning the barrel going to do?
Click to expand...

It's not that the accuracy is necessarily going to be different in terms of MOA (group size) clean vs. fouled (although it can be), it's that it is not at all uncommon for a rifle to shoot to different POIs clean vs. fouled. You might get a .75" group from a clean barrel, and a .75" group from a fouled barrel, but the two groups may be inches apart at 100 yds, if that makes sense. Or it could be that groups tighten up when the barrel is fouled, that's not uncommon either. Every rifle is different, even within the same brand and model. It might not make a difference in your rifle, but you won't know until you test it out. And it might be that the difference is so small as to be insignificant for what you consider acceptable accuracy, but again, you have to figure out what's best for your rifle, and the purpose for which you intend to use it.

Jason
 
Yesterday I took a "clean" Remington 700 in .223 to the range and started the session off by firing 5 Hornady rounds just to foul the bore and remove any traces of oil that may be still in the barrel. The first 5 shots were all in the 10 ring at 100 yds and the next 20 (2 different groups of reloads that I was testing) also grouped at less than 1 1/2" (3" below the bulls eye before I adjusted my scope). I'm really not worried about any of my hunting rifles not grouping at less than 2", I'm only worried about where the 1st shot is going to go. This is why I mentioned that I foul the barrel the day before the season opens. If I hunt for 2 straight weeks and don't shoot anything then I won't clean the gun until the season is over (unless it rains or snows and then it will get a patch with oil). I have guns from my Dad that are over 50 years old and the bores look like new because he took care of them (just like his tools, he was a carpenter). As someone else mentioned, you never clean a rifle from the muzzle end unless there is no other way and then with extreme caution. I've seen several requests on this board from folks asking for the best way to remove rust from their rifles. The best way is to keep them clean and oiled and they won't rust in the first place. I figure I may have another 20 years of cleaning my guns if I'm lucky and when I'm gone someone (probably my nephew) will inherit some pretty clean guns.
 
Two things. First you need to read this starting at page 2 paragraph 9:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-10/20091015104116-cleanbarrel.pdf

Second: The Garand Collectors Association conducted a test with Garand barrels to determine if cleaning from the muzzle actually caused muzzle wear or a decrease in accuracy. They swabbed several thousand times on the test barrels from the muzzle end using USGI steel rods with no bore guide. They swabbed so hard they broke a cleaning rod in the barrel on at least one occasion. The test barrels were practically unaffected and no decrease in accuracy could be found.
 
Thanks, but having purchased a used Remington 700 last year that had rust inside the chamber, I will continue to clean and oil my guns. When I get a gun that isn't subject to rust, I'll rethink my position on this. Until then, I'll continue on as I have for the past 40+ years.
 
I just wanted to clarify something. From the last two posts, I think some folks are thinking that I and others are saying "never clean your rifle", and I know, at least in my case, that's not at all what I'm saying. My rifles get cleaned, but they are sighted in for a fouled bore, because otherwise you'd have to clean between each shot to get POI to match POA. I'm saying do clean your rifles, either periodically like I do, or after every outing as some others like to do, but just be aware of any variance in your POI relative to your POA, and make sure you are zeroed accordingly.

Jason
 
What other folks do doesn`t affect me in any way. Clean. Don`t clean.
Some folks are lazy. Some take a different view on the subject. Some were never instructed on the proper care of a weapon.
Lucky for me, I had good instruction! There are guys out there that know
what I mean. Hard to forget those instructions.

For me. If it`s been fired.........it gets cleaned. End of story. :)
 
My dad taught me to clean any gun I shoot as soon as I got it home. The only change to that routine is if we were going to be hunting from a camp over a period of time. Even then at the end of each day we'd run a patch down the bore and check to make sure there was adequate lube on the important parts.

A 20 year career in the military only reinforced what dear old dad had me practice. I still own the first .22LR bolt Winchester he gave me as a kid. Lord only knows how many rounds dad had put down the pipe and I never bothered to keep count myself. The little .22 is still very accurate and looks great.

I visually inspect all of my firearms at least once every 6 months even though they are stored in a good quality gun safe with a dehumidifier. Every once in a while I'll find one that needs a bit of oil.
 
I won't get into the esoterics of accuracy in a clean vs. dirty gun, but I will say one thing: if you're in the "clean it when it needs it" camp you'd still be wise to wipe down the exterior of the rifle after shooting. Living with midwest summer humidity I've learned this the hard way. I'm guessing the salt from sweat/skin attacts moisture, as I've gotten surface rust (on triggers especially) a couple days after shooting if I don't clean my gun or at least wipe the exterior with oil.
 
I won't get into the esoterics of accuracy in a clean vs. dirty gun, but I will say one thing: if you're in the "clean it when it needs it" camp you'd still be wise to wipe down the exterior of the rifle after shooting. Living with midwest summer humidity I've learned this the hard way. I'm guessing the salt from sweat/skin attacts moisture, as I've gotten surface rust (on triggers especially) a couple days after shooting if I don't clean my gun or at least wipe the exterior with oil.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between leaving a little copper fouling on the bore for a shooting season and having a dirty gun. I don't think anyone is advocating neglecting a rifle. I can't speak for anyone else, but I imagine they do the same- when I do leave a little copper in the bore, it still gets a mop down the bore, and everything else is cleaned as well. I just won't use a copper solvent until the end of the season.


Jason
 
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