My Standard Processes & Documentation Calmed Me Down

[otisrush]

Overall I'm not THAT AR, but sometimes I look at my reloading log (Excel spreadsheet) and wonder "Am I overdoing it?" This morning I learned "No."

When I calibrate my scale prior to a loading session I calibrate to the weight below my target charge weight based on what my check weights will enable me to do. I decided to do this so if I ever forget to adjust the scale to target weight after calibrating that I'm below target charge - not above it. My pistol charges are 3.9gr HP-38 (.38 Spcl) and 3.8gr Titegroup (9mm). So that means in both cases I calibrate using 3.5gr and adjust up from there.
That means my scale gets put away set on 3.8gr or 3.9gr. (Except when I'm doing rifle - which I haven't done in a number of months.)

Imagine my surprise when I get out my scale this morning and it is set on 3.5gr. Did I do a batch and forget to adjust-up the scale after calibrating? I can't imagine I did that (I check it multiple times visually during a session. But maybe I did forget.

First I'm thankful for my method of calibrating low. I'm quite confident I at least don't have a batch that is too hot. It might be low.....but not high. But I can't remember the last caliber I loaded.

I go to the handy-dandy Excel spreadsheet. I can see the last batch I loaded was 9mm. I pull a bullet from that batch and weigh the powder in it: 3.8gr.

I don't recall what I did after that loading session. I might have re-calibrated it or calibrated a few hours later - just to see if things had changed over some time of scale storage.

But the bottom line: Thanks to reading here about how people work their processes and document their sessions I was able to retrace my steps and give myself confidence that that last batch has in it what I intended to put in it.

OR

 

[Torked]

New reloader here, been lurking a while! Look forward to finding the processes thread.

Thanks for the info, and heads up!


.

 

[Mad Chemist]

I have no idea what "calibrating low" means to you. What it means to everyone else is incorrect calibration. I don't mean to be rude but this is a fact.

When you calibrate a scale you are verifying it against a check weight. You are ensuring that that your scale is weighing the check weight at it's actual mass as precisely as possible within the tolerance range of the instrument. So if the scale claims a tolerance of =/- 1mg your verified check weight better weigh in at =/- 1mg of its actual weight. If you "calibrate" a manual balance beam scale to read under the check weight amount you are setting it incorrectly.

Incorrect calibration of a balance beam by some amount (either grains, grams, mg, or whatever) will not always make it consistently weigh low/high by the variance that the user selected. It's not a strict linear relationship. The greater the charge is from the calibration weight (and user selected error input) the greater the degree of output error will be. So for example, if you are setting your scale to display a 3.4gr charge as 3.5gr you will have a larger variation in actual charge wt. vs displayed charge wt as the powder charge increases above or decreases below 3.4gr.

 

[otisrush]

I didn't mean I calibrate to read or indicate less than true. What I mean is I calibrate to a weight below my target charge weight based on what my check weights can do. So if I want to charge 3.8gr, I first calibrate my scale to read zero when set to 3.5gr and I have 3.5gr of check weights in the pan. (My check weights can't measure out 3.8gr exactly. 3.5gr is the closest I can get to what I ultimately want to weigh without going over my ultimate target weight.) Then I take the weights out of the pan, move scale setting to 3.8gr, and I'm good to go. Similarly if I wanted to charge 25.2gr, I'd put 25gr of check weights in the pan, set the scale to 25gr, and zero that. Then remove the weights and set scale to 25.2gr.

What I want to avoid is the scenario is that I calibrate to, say 4.0gr, because my weights could also do that. And then reduce my scale setting to 3.8gr. I don't want to do that in case I forget to reduce the scale setting after calibration and then indadvertently charge my cases with 4.0gr - which is beyond what I want in the cases.

Hopefully that clarifies things.

 

[FROGO207]

Well however you are arriving at your correctly loaded ammo is a good thing. As I have loaded ammo over the years I have learned that adding steps to assure of checks and balances to keep any mistakes from happening is the best approach. Most of these are developed from personal experience (my mistakes) or from others mistakes that they have advised me about. Taking ones time and paying attention to the process/steps have no substitutes. I hope to enjoy many more uneventful years reloading. Happy shooting.

 

[gamestalker]

To incorrectly calibrate the scale, or calibrate it low as you claim, is simply wrong. That is not a safety measure, that is wrong and carries it's own element of risk.

Trust the data, for crying out loud, trust your scale. I can't even fathom the thought of deliberately mis-calibrating my scale just so I can create a margin of safety. May as well shave some weight off of the check weights too. Good lord man. That my friend is foolish and demonstrates an incompetence. No where in any instructional reloading book have I ever read anything that suggests doing something like this, quite the contrary, always properly calibrate the scale.

Take up knitting or some other hobby that doesn't involve high pressures, cause your gonna get hurt if you continue down this path.

Sorry mods, but this one needs to be addressed aggressively IMO. There are other new reloaders reading this.

GS

 

[moxie]

This is like setting your watch ahead some number of minutes so you'll never be late. Works until you need to know the exact time.

Follow FROGO's advice above. Check and recheck but avoid jinking and zigzagging. Get used to being exact and accurate. Most reloading manuals have a "how to" section in the front. Pick one and follow it. No need to elaborate.

Overthinking and obsessing over the details can get you into trouble. Follow the KISS approach. Reloading done right is a relaxing and rewarding hobby.

 

[otisrush]

To incorrectly calibrate the scale, or calibrate it low as you claim, is simply wrong. That is not a safety measure, that is wrong and carries it's own element of risk.

Trust the data, for crying out loud, trust your scale. I can't even fathom the thought of deliberately mis-calibrating my scale just so I can create a margin of safety. May as well shave some weight off of the check weights too. Good lord man. That my friend is foolish and demonstrates an incompetence. No where in any instructional reloading book have I ever read anything that suggests doing something like this, quite the contrary, always properly calibrate the scale.

Take up knitting or some other hobby that doesn't involve high pressures, cause your gonna get hurt if you continue down this path.

Sorry mods, but this one needs to be addressed aggressively IMO. There are other new reloaders reading this.

GS

Thanks very much. I appreciate it. I'll look at making sure I understand the correct uses and procedures.

I most definitely "want to do this (reloading) right". If I'm off (and it seems I am) I most definitely want to know.

Thanks again.

OR

 

[moxie]

By the way, I forgot to add something. Unless you completely move your scale to a different location, and radically disturb it somehow, calibrating with check weights every time you use the scale is way overkill. You just need to balance or "zero" the scale before use. Using the check weights every few years is sufficient, seriously.

Keeping the scale covered to keep the dust off is a good idea. A simple piece of cloth is sufficient.

 

[Sol]

"Zen is found one column at a time in an Excel spreadsheet"

-Confucius

 

[gamestalker]

Sorry about the harsh approach I used Otisrush, I admittedly got a little excited when I read your post though. But reloading already comes with an inherent risk, the last thing we want to do is introduce any additional variables into the process. So trust your scale once you've checked it, and then just use the published data "as is", it's good, and has never gotten me in trouble.

GS

 

[Oldman1151]

I didn't mean I calibrate to read or indicate less than true. What I mean is I calibrate to a weight below my target charge weight based on what my check weights can do. So if I want to charge 3.8gr, I first calibrate my scale to read zero when set to 3.5gr and I have 3.5gr of check weights in the pan. (My check weights can't measure out 3.8gr exactly. 3.5gr is the closest I can get to what I ultimately want to weigh without going over my ultimate target weight.) Then I take the weights out of the pan, move scale setting to 3.8gr, and I'm good to go. Similarly if I wanted to charge 25.2gr, I'd put 25gr of check weights in the pan, set the scale to 25gr, and zero that. Then remove the weights and set scale to 25.2gr.

What I want to avoid is the scenario is that I calibrate to, say 4.0gr, because my weights could also do that. And then reduce my scale setting to 3.8gr. I don't want to do that in case I forget to reduce the scale setting after calibration and then indadvertently charge my cases with 4.0gr - which is beyond what I want in the cases.

Hopefully that clarifies things.

I calibrate my scale to 0 then double check with nearly the same procedure as you describe. I do not necessarily always calibrate under my desired charge weight but more so as close to the desired charge weight that my set of check weights allows (usually within a couple of tenths). When I calibrate to 0 and then use check weights close to my desired charge without having to make an adjustment I am confident my scale is working correctly. I think it is the most effective way to use a set of check weights. I check my scale at the beginning and end of a reloading session. Probably overkill but it does not take very long to do.

 

[gamestalker]

Why make the process more confusing, thus increasing the likelihood and opportunity for a mistake.

Just zero the scale, check it with check weights now and then, then just weigh and load? Honestly, I probably only use check weights once or twice a year. I take good care of my scale, it's an old RCBS 5-10 balance beam, it's been accurate for about 35 years now, nothing has changed, and I would doubt it ever will change.

GS

 

[Mad Chemist]

LOL, I thought I was being a little harsh but Gamestalker gave him both barrels

Otisrush,
Stick around here for a while. There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks around here who can steer you down the right path. Gamestalker is one of them, when he's not feeling too grumpy

 

[otisrush]

I'm not going anywhere. I want to learn and do it right. I know there is a wealth of information here. And I appreciate so many being willing to share it.

OR

 

[vaalpens]

This is an interesting topic and i am glad OR brought this up.

I also use a beam scale and the only calibration I do is calibrate it every time to zero. Once calibrated at zero, I then set my weight I am looking for and start weighing my charges.

So my dumb questions is; What happens if you calibrate your scale to zero, then use check weights to see if your scale is accurate, and then realize that your scale is not completely accurate?

I trust my scale until I don't trust it anymore, and will verify it once in a while against another two beam scales. If I can't trust it anymore and I know it has been well maintained, then it is time to retire the scale.

 

[otisrush]

This is an interesting topic and i am glad OR brought this up.

I also use a beam scale and the only calibration I do is calibrate it every time to zero. Once calibrated at zero, I then set my weight I am looking for and start weighing my charges.

So my dumb questions is; What happens if you calibrate your scale to zero, then use check weights to see if your scale is accurate, and then realize that your scale is not completely accurate?

I trust my scale until I don't trust it anymore, and will verify it once in a while against another two beam scales. If I can't trust it anymore and I know it has been well maintained, then it is time to retire the scale.

This seems to be my situation. I zero out my scale. Using check weights in the sub-10gr range my scale seems to be accurate. But when I get into the 20-50gr weights my scale indicates a bit heavier than what is in the pan.

If it matters - it's the Ohaus 10-10 - what they had before it was acquired by RCBS.

 

[gamestalker]

I haven't encountered that problem yet, well at least not to the extent that it was significant enough to matter. My 5-10 throws very good charges up to about 35 grains. But at the upper end of the weights, like from 35 - 85 grains it varies a bit. But it's so minimal, that it doesn't require corrective measures. Less than a .1 gr. with a 55 gr. charge, isn't even note worthy. When I get up to the big belted cases where I'm throwing 70 - 85 gr. charges, it's at worst .1 gr. light. This too is of little to no concern with the powders used at those weights and cartridges.

Now if a person is experiencing variations with pistol charges that exceed .1 gr. I would probably replace that scale, or if possible get it fixed. As mentioned here by someone else, weight variations with a beam scale aren't linear. It could be fine and accurate with a high/low end charge, and5 significantly off at the other end. If it's giving you problems with a 10.0 gr. charge, those variations will likely be far greater with heavier charges. A .2 gr. variance with a 55 gr. charge isn't going to ruin your day, but if you are throwing charges with a fast burning pistol powder that only has a .3 gr. table, that could become a problem, especially if your at the upper end of the table already.

I would check to make sure nothing is moving around on the threaded shaft the wheel is located on. If that shaft can move back and forth at all, it's going to change the weights it's throwing, as that effects the balance differential of the beam. It wouldn't take much movement to have a significant effect. the 10 gr. wheel shaft on my little 5-10 was loose when I bought it 30 some years ago. I noticed it right away and secured it.

Beam scales are actually pretty straight forward, so if you inspect it real close you should be able to identify the culprit. Check the knives to make sure they haven;t been flattened or bent. Also make sure the stones are clean. Make sure nothing that supports the wheel is loose.

Make sure it is zeroing fairly level, not that it will have a major impact on weight readings, but it's a good idea to have it leveled so the knives are sitting centered in the stones when zeroed or at your target weight. The concept of a beam scale is that it needs to ride freely in the knives, any binding or dragging will effect weights. You control level by the amount of lead shot that is in the pan cradle. It has a small screw in the center, when you remove that screw you'll find lead shot inside. I had to level mine when I got it, apparently someone had messed around and had it way off. Just add or take away enough shot to get it level when it's zeroed. If the shot is too heavy to accomplish that, then cut some #7.5 - #9 lead shot into small enough pieces to allow you to get it level.

GS