National Reciprocity bill...

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I dont understand. Why not just accept that Congress is going to pass Unconstitutional laws anyway and have them pass one that favors us gunowners as a whole?
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For the same reason that I don't advocate the murder of people whose deaths would benefit me personally.

Just saying...

The point is moot, though. The entire concept of "State's Rights" is BS when states attempt to violate the constitution. Lonnie Wilson did an excellent job of explaining how the FOPA is not unconstitutional a few posts ago.

- Chris
 
Article 4, Section 1 of the US Constitution. Acts, Records, and Judicial Proceedings. This is the clause where marriage licenses (which are not issued by courts, btw, divorces go through courts) are recognized nationwide, and Congress has regulated (though unconstitutionally based on sex IMHO) under DOMA.
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Does not apply to driver's licenses AKAIK. There is also the big fat "public policy" exception.


Again, this bill is a "notwithstanding" bill. If HR861 violates the 10th amendment (which it doesn't), then so does FOPA's interstate transport protections.
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I don't understand what you mean when you say this is a "notwithstanding" bill. "Notwithstanding" == preemption. In other words Congress overrulling state laws. Is there something more contrary to state's rights?
 
I love when people argue about the .gov getting involved. This is simply stating that other states have to recognize licenses from other states just the same as a marrige or drivers license. Has drivers licenses being recognized by other states severly impacted the requierments of other states? You still have different ages, different rules, different regs, different tests, etc. There is no one standardized federal drivers test because all states recognize those issued by other states, so why is it you feel the same will happen to CWP's?

If it was a federally issued CWP I'd understand and be i nthe same position, but it isn't.
 
Originally posted by Lupinus:
I love when people argue about the .gov getting involved. This is simply stating that other states have to recognize licenses from other states just the same as a marrige or drivers license. Has drivers licenses being recognized by other states severly impacted the requierments of other states? You still have different ages, different rules, different regs, different tests, etc. There is no one standardized federal drivers test because all states recognize those issued by other states, so why is it you feel the same will happen to CWP's?

If it was a federally issued CWP I'd understand and be i nthe same position, but it isn't.
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Exactly what I am tring to say. People dont seem to understand that this is not a federal permit or that the feds do not create the standards for CCW permits.
 
Well Damien 45 if you had an Arizona CCW permit then you could carry in California if this law was passed. And I am sure storing your weapon would have been worth the trouble.
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Actually I am going home in April. The day after I land I am taking the CCW Class. I had my permit before I joined the Navy. I didn't renew (to my regret) when I joined. I will be fixing that.

As for storing my guns. I agree it would have been very worth while for me to do so. However, there was no place at the time that I was aware of to store them. I just found out yesterday that there was a place available. My friend appologized for not thinking of it at the time, but at the same time I didn't specifically ask. I know I would have stored 3 guns without thought, my SIG, Kimber and AR-15. Knowing now that I can store firearms, at a very reasonable rate, I will be working on replacing some of them. In the end it all worked out.

Now, back to the topic, I will support anything that gives me my gun rights back in states ruled by antigun laws. If the FOPA allows me to transport my gun through (not into for an extended period of time) an antigun state, then I do support it. If it caused larger problems then no I wont.

I have yet to fully read the new bill. I will provide more information of my opinion once I do.
 
Just finished reading the body of the bill. I will gladly support this bill. Additionally, I have noticed that 3 CA reps support it and 2 AZ rep as well. All one needs to do is read this, very short and to the point bill. There is no "Big Brother Conspiracy" involved. It is too the point and progun. How is that bad?
 
Well it does not justify the fears of many people. The bill is a very progun bill that we should support and ask our legislators to support.

It would allow us to carry everywhere. NYC, Chicago, Illinois, and Wisconsin. And all the may issue states would probably go shall issue simply because there is money to be made on issuing permits.
 
I don't understand what you mean when you say this is a "notwithstanding" bill. "Notwithstanding" == preemption. In other words Congress overrulling state laws. Is there something more contrary to state's rights?
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Dallas,

First: There's no such things as "state's rights".

Second: If Congress wanted to preempt laws, it would state so. It says that a state law is inapplicable to a person with a license and is carrying concealed. No laws are "preempted", in that it is stricken off the books. That was one of the fears of one of the early drafts of the FOPA Interstate Protection (codified in 18 USC §926A).

Do you really support New York arresting people for having a gun in the trunk of their car and transporting it across the state to get to another state where it's legal?
 
This bill is 100% good. It makes me angry and frustrated to see gun rights activists opposing this bill. It's really the same thing as the FOPA, with the addition that you can carry using out-of-state CCWs.

And yes, this is the ONLY way we're going to get CCW going in HI, NJ, NY, IL, etc.
 
I couldn't pick the corn outa crap if my life depended on it, and I know less about the law and the Constitution, but I do know that anyone who states that some law is 100% good is shovelling manure on his pavement and expecting flowers to blossom. Get real, there may be some good but don't be a deer blinded from the car lights only to run into the path of the truck coming opposite. The only politicians that really care for America are the Libertarians, that's why they are in the minority, all the rest are party hacks. Before you slam me, What would Teddy Roosevelt do? What would Reagan do?
 
Lonnie, they won't answer your question

Lonnie, they will not answer your question about supporting New York being able to arrest people for transporting through the state any more then an anti-gun person will respond to CCW lowering violent crime rate. Why? because there is no logical rebuttal. That's like saying Brown v Board of Education was a bad bill because it overturned "state's rights" which were praised in Plessy v Ferguson.

I never knew being a conservative/libertarian was about supporting tyranny as long as it comes from state legislatures and not from the Federal Government.

It doesn't really matter anyway because this bill will not pass. But these "state's rights" people will still be in my thoughts while I carry in California and New York City.

It would be nice if these people could direct their energy to their "pro-RKBA" legislatures to actually amend their CCW laws. Yes, some states have real crappy CCW laws (Oklahoma, North Carolina, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, Arkansas, Ohio, Nebraska). The standard arguement is that these states are at least shall-issue, yeah well so are Oregon, Washington, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Nevada, and Indiana.... states that have little or no restrictions on where you can carry.
 
This bill is 100% good. It makes me angry and frustrated to see gun rights activists opposing this bill. It's really the same thing as the FOPA, with the addition that you can carry using out-of-state CCWs.

And yes, this is the ONLY way we're going to get CCW going in HI, NJ, NY, IL, etc.
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The sad thing is that the state of California has almost beaten the system. They are a may-issue state. They recognize no other states' CCW. The issue of a CCW here is county based, not state. So does that mean a CCW for the state of California, issued in Santa Clara County is no good in say, Santa Cruz County? At least this bill will fix the rights of CCW holder's in opposing states. Try living in an opposing county! :banghead:
 
The issue of a CCW here is county based, not state. So does that mean a CCW for the state of California, issued in Santa Clara County is no good in say, Santa Cruz County?
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Unless specifically restricted to in county on the license itself, a California CCW is valid statewide. I've personally never seen an "home county only" license.
 
Unless specifically restricted to in county on the license itself, a California CCW is valid statewide. I've personally never seen an "home county only" license.
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But how many CCW permits have you seen for the State of California? In Monterey County, where I am stationed, there are 3. The Mayor is one of them.
 
There are 45,000 permits in CA. Most of them are unrestricted except for sheriffs policies, like you can't carry in a school. Some counties issue a lot of permits.
 
There are 45,000 permits in CA. Most of them are unrestricted except for sheriffs policies, like you can't carry in a school. Some counties issue a lot of permits.
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Too bad I live in the one that doesn't. lol Good news is that I am in the process of doing the paperwork for the LE Association of CA. Being Navy ASF is a wonderful thing! :D
 
But I do believe that you could carry on a Florida permit even if your home state refuses to issue you one. I would suspect that many states would become shall issue due to the loss of revenue.

I would also suspect that Vermont would probably start issuing some sort of permit.
 
But I do believe that you could carry on a Florida permit even if your home state refuses to issue you one. I would suspect that many states would become shall issue due to the loss of revenue.

I would also suspect that Vermont would probably start issuing some sort of permit.
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Actually, California is one of few states that does not recgonize ANY other state's CCW.
 
George29 said:
What would Reagan do?
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What would Reagan do? Let's see...support the Brady Waiting Period, Campaign in support the Assault Weapon Ban, ban pistol carry for California...

For gunowners' sake let's hope another Reagan doesn't come along.

And let's not also forget that our children and grandchildren are going to be paying for his "single handed defeat of communism" until the Sun runs out of hydrogen...
 
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