Neck Sizing Instead of Full-Length

[Matt304]

Is the general consensus with the target rifle shooters here to neck size only, instead of using a full-length sizing die?

I have always full-length sized my cases, and I've read that it can be more accurate to neck size only and retain the fire-formed case, when using from the same rifle. What are your experiences?

 

[RyanM]

From what I've heard, it seems like the main benefit to neck sizing is brass life more than accuracy. Unless you can chamber every round with the same amount of force, and have the rounds rotated the same way every time, there won't be very much improvement in accuracy over full-length.

 

[33rowdy]

From my readings; Neck sizing a case that was shot form the rifle that is going to be shot in the same rifle the next time yes. But NOT always if you are going to shoot it in another rifle. The sholder of the cartridge will match the breech face during forward movement. "Hornady 7th Edition". Brass expansion.

Other opnions may apply.

 

[Win75]

From what I've heard, it seems like the main benefit to neck sizing is brass life more than accuracy. Unless you can chamber every round with the same amount of force, and have the rounds rotated the same way every time, there won't be very much improvement in accuracy over full-length.

+1

I have found that I get slightly better accuracy with neck sized rounds even though I don't orient the cases the same way each time. I am going to test some loads this week and I have marked the cases so they will be placed in the chamber the same as the first firing.

I do get better brass life with neck sized over full length especially with my military surplus rifles.

 

[moooose102]

+2 the reason i neck size only (only my 300 win mag) is because of short case life. if i resize the whole case, i usually only get 3 reloads before the neck split. i am on reload #4 on the first set of cass i am doing this to, and so far, so good. i am hopeing to get at least 6 reloads out of a case by neck sizing. if i get more, i will be estatic. this brass is just to expensive to be tossing after only 3 reloads.

 

[dagger dog]

I have one rifle that has shot its smallest group with full length sized cases. The other I own I haven't tried both ways to see if there was any difference.

Most handloaders will agree that neck sizing for bolt and single shot rifles is a good practice if only for the reason that it saves brass.

Again, most reloaders have a set procedure in processing their brass, trying to produce the most accurate reloads possible. If a reloader thinks a certian step improves the accuracy it probably does even if it is just a placebo.

I'm a brass junkie, and can't get enough of processing the stuff,I even go into weighing and recording the trimmings from the deburr and chamfer steps.

 

[Owens]

My experience has led me to the conclusion that NS only will 1) increase case life, 2) increase accuracy (or should I say consistency in reloads) and 3) is easier on the reloading arm (less effort).

However, as has been pointed out, reloads that are NS only should be used only in the same firearm, as they take on a 'mold' of that firearm's chamber and may not chamber in another firearm of same caliber.

That 'molding' is what contributes to the accuracy. And just as a side note, I only partially neck size, to only about a .25" . I think that too adds just a touch of accuracy.

 

[Matt304]

OK, what about this...

Dies matched to your chamber. I am ordering a new bull barrel for a .270 target rifle, and this thought came to my mind. If I am getting a custom chamber, why not a custom die set as well to match that chamber specifically?

 

[jeepmor]

I've tried this, but my rounds were tight in the same rifle the case was shot in. In turn, I went back to full length resizing instead of just neck resizing. I get subMOA groups, so I don't fret about it.

 

[scrat]

i think thats a lot of money spent on something that might not make a difference. When you purchase ammo over the counter they are conformed to Sammi specs. Your chamber maybe as close to Sammi specs as possible. Full length sizing in rifles always ensures a lower case life and a lot more triming. Once you fire your rifle you will have fire formed cases to fit your rifle only. Thus you just custom chambered your cases. Neck sizing these cases will make it so you can now reload these case formed cases. Your next reloads should be very very accurate. Full length sizing these cases takes them to Sammi specs again. Defeating the purpose about having fire formed cases that will only fit your rifle. The reason we all say that if you have one rifle in one caliber then neck size is this. weather the rifle is a custom job or not. Most chambers are going to be different. With this it is very very hard to fire cases from one rifle then try to chamber them in another. As all chambers are unique. trying to match a case to a chamber can be done easily by firing the round. Custom dies may not be beneficial. Neck sizing the rounds after using them in the same gun will give you the results you desire

 

[Strongbad]

+2 the reason i neck size only (only my 300 win mag) is because of short case life. if i resize the whole case, i usually only get 3 reloads before the neck split. i am on reload #4 on the first set of cass i am doing this to, and so far, so good. i am hopeing to get at least 6 reloads out of a case by neck sizing. if i get more, i will be estatic. this brass is just to expensive to be tossing after only 3 reloads.

You need to be annealing.

 

[Matt304]

i think thats a lot of money spent on something that might not make a difference. When you purchase ammo over the counter they are conformed to Sammi specs. Your chamber maybe as close to Sammi specs as possible. Full length sizing in rifles always ensures a lower case life and a lot more triming. Once you fire your rifle you will have fire formed cases to fit your rifle only. Thus you just custom chambered your cases. Neck sizing these cases will make it so you can now reload these case formed cases. Your next reloads should be very very accurate. Full length sizing these cases takes them to Sammi specs again. Defeating the purpose about having fire formed cases that will only fit your rifle. The reason we all say that if you have one rifle in one caliber then neck size is this. weather the rifle is a custom job or not. Most chambers are going to be different. With this it is very very hard to fire cases from one rifle then try to chamber them in another. As all chambers are unique. trying to match a case to a chamber can be done easily by firing the round. Custom dies may not be beneficial. Neck sizing the rounds after using them in the same gun will give you the results you desire

Yes, that surely does make sense. The way my thoughts were heading was that if I get a custom match chamber, it would have a tighter neck. My cases would be neck-turned to fit that chamber. Now the only thing which would seem to conflict there would be cases of a smaller neck diameter, with a neck die of SAAMI spec. See what I mean? I haven't read much into this more than a little, where it was stated that a thinner neck wall can lead to better consistency.

My reloading has never gotten very in-depth; I've taken the more casual, common approach it seems so far. My shooting has since shifted to long-range only, and now I'm willing to try every extra trick and benefit in the book to hopefully end up with some of the best reloads I can attain. So even if the benefit may be small, but there could be some benefit, I'm for it.

 

[243winxb]

case life

In the neck area, using standard dies, the neck is sized the same way, FLRS or Neck sizing only. This is because the expander ball is pulled thru the neck with both dies. Here is where REdding FLRS bushing dieshttp://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/typesbushseatdie.html help and also the Lee collet die.http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1218383376.2259=/html/catalog/dies-collet.html If the body of the brass is a problem,( your getting the shiny ring just below the web) you need to adjust your FLRS dies differently to control your headspacing in the chamber. Don't push the shoulder back to far.

 

[scrat]

Same thing there really isnt much room on the neck to say its different. Your sizing down the neck to be able to tightly fit a bullet in the neck. If its not sized down the bullet will not fit. Same with factory ammo or any other type of ammo. The neck has to be sized down to seat a bullet. Now i have heard and seen different thickness in neck. However the differences are very very small. I think you would be safe to just neck size. If anything for good match grade ammo after that you have to keep your brass seperated by type and maker. This will be the differences. However this can be controlled by using the same type and make brass.

 

[243winxb]

Accuracy

My testing in an accurate rifle using standard RCBS dies showed the FLRS die to be more accurate than the neck sizing die. I feel this is because not all chambers are inline with the bore. A full length sized round can find the center on firing with proper sizing. A neck sized round can not. Using the Redding bushing diehttp://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/typesbushseatdie.html lets you have more control over sizing. Most all standard dies, FL and Neck, Size down the case neck .010" or more. The expander then opens up the neck to the correct diameter, over working the brass. For accuracy, you want all things the same round after round. That does not happen when neck sizing, soon or later you do have to FLRS as the round will no longer fit the chamber. Are custom dies worth the money? Yes, this keeps you from over working the brass. You send 3 cases fired in your gun to RCBS or Redding,for a few dollar more. These dies are the best choice for a factory hunting type gun and a learning reloader. For custom barreled guns the bushing dies with outside neck turning , (no expander button used,) will give the top accuracy overall.

 

[243winxb]

What is accuracy?

http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm To me, in the real world, accuracy is a hunting gun that will put all shots fired, first to last in a 2 inch circle at 100 yards. If your gun can shoot 4 X five shot groups (20 shot) for an average of 1" or less @100 yds, you have a very accurate gun. A super accurate bench rest gun will average under 1/4" at 100yds. At 300 yards groups will measure under 1" (yes i have done it) not an average, but 3 out of 6 groups fired. Give the gun a bad load, you get 3"@100yds. A good load with no wind at best .300" 's for me.

 

[brickeyee]

A run of the mill production chambered rifle is not nearly as likely to benefit as a 'match' chambered rifle.

I have tight neck varmint rifles chambered by Kelbly in .22-250 AI and 6mm Rem AI.
Both will do 3/8" and under for 5 shot groups till the cows come home.
They each have matching Redding competition dies and shoulder (bump) dies.

When you get all the other variables under control, neck sizing starts to matter.

 

[Matt304]

Great info provided so far guys, this is the kind of stuff I was hoping to learn. Thanks again.

243winxbm, I am going to take your advice specifically, and get the bushing type dies.

 

[Walkalong]

243winxbm, I am going to take your advice specifically, and get the bushing type dies.

A good decision, for various reasons.

Use the Redding full length sizer with the bushing set up. Adjust the sizer so it is only pushing the shoulder back say .005 or so. Don't try to cut it to close. As the brass work hardens it will start to spring back more and your initial setting, if cut real close, will no longer push the shoulder back enough and the rounds will start to be hard to chamber. Choose a bushing size that gives you the neck tension you want. This will be accurate & extend brass life. For most barrels/bullets this is as fancy as you need to get. Custom actions & match barrels are a different story, but even then you won't see huge gains doing anything different.

 

[cpttango30]

On many cases if you neck size then about every 3 or 4 reload your going to have to full length size anyways.

 

[Bitswap]

After you fireform the brass, you should bump the shoulder 0.001" with a body die then neck size for optimum accuracy. If you don't, the brass will lengthen until it won't chamber.

To bump that shoulder you can get some precision shellholders ($40.00) or some die shims ($10.00) or adjust the die manually. In all cases, a good die locking ring is recommended, the kind that doesn't lock with a screw that jams the threads of the die.

This is NOT full length sizing the brass. It is adjusting the headspace to match your chamber. It can be done with a body sizing die or a 'normal' sizing die with the primer pin removed.

 

[Win75]

After you fireform the brass, you should bump the shoulder 0.001" with a body die then neck size for optimum accuracy. If you don't, the brass will lengthen until it won't chamber.

To bump that shoulder you can get some precision shellholders ($40.00) or some die shims ($10.00) or adjust the die manually. In all cases, a good die locking ring is recommended, the kind that doesn't lock with a screw that jams the threads of the die.

This is NOT full length sizing the brass. It is adjusting the headspace to match your chamber. It can be done with a body sizing die or a 'normal' sizing die with the primer pin removed.

+1

You beat me to it. I only do this every 4th or 5th firing usually.

 

[scrat]

yep this is about as good of info as your going to get. i hope this all helps out.

 

[243winxb]

Redding body sizing die

A body sizing die is a full lenght sizing die that does NOT touch the neck area. The type S full lenght sizing die will do the same thing if you remove the bushing and decapper/expander.

 

[Matt304]

A body sizing die is a full lenght sizing die that does NOT touch the neck area. The type S full lenght sizing die will do the same thing if you remove the bushing and decapper/expander.

So the set here is really not the set I would want to order then, http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=338818&t=11082005, since it includes the neck bushing die and body size die separate. What I need is the full-body S-type bushing die, and the seating die only, correct?

I guess I'm confused because they essentially split one die into two separate ones in that kit it appears, that die being the full-length s-type. Would this be the right set I want?: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=261319&t=11082005