Neck sizing vs Full lgth

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MinnMooney

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I'm fairly new to reloading and am wondering why I'm full lgth resizing after fire-forming the brass to my rifle. If I use the fire-formed brass in the same rifle again, shouldn't I be neck-sizing my brass for a better fit in my chamber?
If I'm right about the neck-sizing thing, would the Redding Neck sizing bushing die work best or should I still go with the Redding full lgth bushing die with the correct neck bushing inside?:confused:
 
1966 advice. Probably not good

huntington1.jpg

huntington2.jpg

These are from 1966 speer manuals.

I used this advice.

Probably not good.

Reason is that cartridges loaded require some pressure to chamber.

Now in 2007 I'm screwing in die about 1/8 turn to fully resize .223 cartridges.

I read this in 2007 rcbs manuals.

regards from senior handloader
 
To all gun enthusiasts : 'Illegitimi non carborundum'

To Tall gun enthusiasts : 'Illegitimi non carborundum'
"Don't let the bastards grind you down". ]​

We aren't.
 
I'll try that 1966 Speer procedure

That's what I'm doing now for my .223Rem brass for my AR-15........ running the ram up (with the shell holder installed) to the top, inserting the die until it touches the shell holder, lowering the ram and then I turn the die down by about 1/8 - 1/4 turn. That's just as it tells me to in the RCBS die instructions.
I seem to be getting a lot of powdery blow-by on the fired casings so that's why I thought just neck-sizing would be better.
Maybe I should try the procedure that you show in the Speer book. I'll try backing my die out just a 16th or 32nd and resizing just part of the neck.

Thanks for the advise.
 
For my handloaded .223 Remington, .308 Winchester, and .243 Winchester I use the Lee Deluxe Rifle Die set with the extra collet sizer, and leave the full - length sizing die in the drawer unless I am using brass that wasn't shot thru my rifles.

The brass lasts much longer and the accuracy is much improved. My cases have been formed to my chamber so there is less headspace, which avoids stretching the case wall which shortens the life of brass.
 
I'm fairly new to reloading and am wondering why I'm full lgth resizing after fire-forming the brass to my rifle

Back your sizer way back in the press. Size a case. Put it in your bolt gun and slowly try to chamber it. If there is resistance, take it out and size it a bit more. Do this until you get no resistance chambering. You have now sized your brass just enough for your chamber without excess sizing. This can help accuracy and increase case life.

This can work for autos as well, but is generally reserved for bolt guns.:)



1966 advice. Probably not good
I have the same manual and its advise is just fine.
 
I follow basically the advice given in the 1966 Speer manual -- for a good reason, it works. For some cases, especially those with thin brass, like the .22 Hornet, the Lee Collet Die is the way to go. But for your average rifle cartridge, screw the die in all the way and then back it out a quarter of a turn or so. Watch the line on the neck. If you like, you can "bump" the shoulder, or just size down to the turn of the shoulder -- whaever works best in your rifle.
 
I full length resize for function. Partial sizing or neck sizing increases the chance that the case will be too fat or too long and then you will have a jam. Neck sizing is advocated by people who will make unsubstantiated claims about longer case life, better accuracy, etc. I have never met these people on a winner’s platform and suspect they really don’t know what they are talking about. I suspect this is all a culture memory, or maybe a pre programmed human tendency to believe that “tight” means precision. While this might be true in a bench rest rifle, and I really don’t know, accuracy comes from shooting, and lots of it, not from esoteric reloading practices that will lead to a gun jams.

The set up instructions given with sizing dies assume a lot of things. And seldom following the instructions do you ever get the brass sized to the correct length. If possible you would like to set back the case shoulder about .003” from the fully expanded condition it comes out from the rifle. In no circumstance do you ever want to size it more than .006” as you are likely to get a case head separation on the next firing. There have been instances where I followed the instructions and I got a crush fit in the rifle chamber because the sizing die did not set the shoulder back enough. In those instances I have had to grind material off the bottom of a sizing die to get sufficient case sizing. Just take the instructions that the factory sends with their dies, and toss out the part that tells you to size to the shellholder. Or shellholder plus a ¼ turn. You will find that such guidance is inaccurate at best, rubbish on the average.

To properly size cases to a correct length you will need a new piece of equipment that has not been mentioned: case gages. I really like the Wilson type case gage. You size your round and drop it in the gage. This gage measures the distance between shoulder and base. It is a "go" and "no Go" gage. And it is a true measurement, as I have dropped my chamber headspace gages in my wilson gages and found perfect agreement between them. You want to size your case between “go” and “no go”, and for my rifles, I size everything to gage minimum.

If you want to try an experiment, size the case following the factory sizing die instructions. Then measure the sized case length with your case gage. If the case is between the “go” and “no go” of the gage, go buy a lottery ticket. Because it is your lucky day and you are going to be a millionaire. What you will probably see is a case that is over length. On a few occasions you will see an underlength case.

This web site is really useful for showing how to use case gages. I recommend looking at the pictures, and it explains the special case gages needed for the belted cartridges.

http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm

The midsection of the Wilson gage is cut big. It only measures headspace. What the Wilson type gage and the other functionally equivalent gages do not measure is "fatness". This is an important measurement for gas guns and should be controlled. You do not want any resistance to bolt closure due to overlong cases or over fat cases. It is a safety consideration for gas rifles with free floating firing pins, it is a reliability consideration for the other few actions.

For those who want more sophistication than Wilson case gages, Sinclair makes gages that will measure the fired length of a case, and allow you to set the shoulder back from that dimension. I do have these Sinclair comparometers, found them useful when case gages are not available, but they are more complicated than a “go”, “no- go” gage.
 
I use the lee collet dies, out of the 20k+ rounds of 223, 308, 22250, 22H, 300wm I've loaded with them, I've yet to have a round fail to chamber in any of my rifles, even in my AR's,

I haven't noticed any better case longevity, better accuracy or any of the other claims I've heard or read about neck sized cases, but hell I'm not that great of shot,

but I still use them because whether I'm loading a lot of rounds in one sitting or just a 100, they make the loading fast and easy,

I dislike having to lube cases, then clean the lube off the cases before I can start to load the cases.
 
Art: Interesting to read of your experience. Since 1950, guess you have seen a bunch of changes.

If I could, I would be out shooting a Highpower Rifle Match each weekend. Shot one yesterday. While the calibers I shoot are limited, .223, 308, and 30-06, the rifles they go in are numerous. At least four different 308 match bolt rifles, five different 308 match M1a's, one 308 Match Garand. The situation is similar with .223 and 30-06. And that is only the Match rifles..:evil:

So my ammunition is not easily segregated by rifle. Needs to be interchange with all. I do not want a single tight round to mess up a rapid fire string; reliable function cannot be compromised.

I full length small base size whenever I can get a small base die. I trim on each and every reload, for safety's sake. And I have taken brass up to 22 (or 24 reloads) in a M1a with match winning capability.

I guess I really don't have much of a life beyond reloading ammunition and shooting my guns. And that is OK with me.
 
accuracy= consistency, size however you want to. if everything is the same everytime you pull the trigger the bullet will go to the same place. handloading is an experiment with a desired outcome.
 
MinnMooney
I'll try that 1966 Speer procedure

That's what I'm doing now for my .223Rem brass for my AR-15........ running the ram up (with the shell holder installed) to the top, inserting the die until it touches the shell holder, lowering the ram and then I turn the die down by about 1/8 - 1/4 turn. That's just as it tells me to in the RCBS die instructions.
I seem to be getting a lot of powdery blow-by on the fired casings so that's why I thought just neck-sizing would be better.
Maybe I should try the procedure that you show in the Speer book. I'll try backing my die out just a 16th or 32nd and resizing just part of the neck.

As far as I know you never (neck size only) for a Semi-auto (AR-15). You need to full length resize and buy one of these to set up your full length sizing die (headspace) –

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=477756
 
SlamFire1, I've loaded lots of different cartridges, but most usually for only one gun in any given cartridge.

I guess the main changes are in the precision stuff for reloading for target accuracy; in the various powders, and in bullet design for the different uses.

Since I'm getting the same good performance from the same old pet powders and the same old ancient dies and such, I'm most impressed by what the bullet makers have done. That's particularly true for these last ten or fifteen years.

A couple of examples: Used to be, .22 centerfires were varmint only, with blow-up bullets. Now, there are the blitz, the standard varmint types, and the deep penetration/controlled expansion types. Or: The .30 in 220-grain was regarded as a necessity for deep penetration. The modern 180-grain bullets seem to be able to do just as good a job.

Most of us are aware of the efforts for long-range targetting, with the very high coefficients to retain velocity out at, say, 1,000 yards.

Art
 
Function vs accuracy

I FL for my autoloaders and neck size for the bolt rifles. I have definitley found that neck sizing improves accuracy in my 03A3. Case life? Dunno. I've never worn out a case, because I hunt with it, not matches.

I will point out that the benchrest shooters neck size, and there must be a reason.
 
It depends on the gun.
When I was loading .303 British I only ever necksized and I never had problems. It was about the easiest cartridge that I have ever loaded for.
With other rounds, especially if they are going to be used in a semi-auto, I FL size or get pretty close to it.
 
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