Need a Soft Shooting Semi-Auto, Part Two

[shaggycat]

I went in yesterday to place my order for the Beretta Xtrema2 that I had decided upon after posting a thread on this forum. Too make a long story short, when a manager called to place the order for an employee purchase, I was informed that we were no longer allowed to do so.

So, I now have to pay the same prices that everyone else is forced to pay. That eliminates the Beretta Xtrema2.

I am currently considering Winchester Super-X2, Browning Gold, and Remington 1100.

For those of you who missed my first thread, I will be using the gun for pretty much everything. Some clays, waterfowl, small game, you name it. My do-it-all shotgun.

It needs to be soft-shooting and must be able to cycle lighter target loads (1 1/8 ounces). How do the 3 and 3.5 inch chambered Gold and Super-X2 each do cycling those lighter loads?

Could I hunt geese with the 1100 if I used tungsten or bismuth shot?

Needless to say, it must be reliable as well.

I am aware that the Gold and Super X2 are nearly identical. Is there anything besides wood finish (I have heard brownings is better) and Brownings speed load system that seperate the two?

 

[ArmedBear]

Most do-it-all semiautos work fine with loads that are 1 1/8 oz. 3 dram or above. It's the real target loads, like 1 oz., 2 3/4 dram or less that can be a problem.

Why not a Remington 11-87 instead of an 1100? I have an 1100, but if you really want to shoot everything from targets to geese, the 11-87 has a gas-compensating system, as does the new 1100 G3.

I've never heard anyone with an 11** or Brownchester say, "Man, what a piece of CRAP!" They're all good. People do complain about the O-ring in a Remington; Remington's forthcoming 105CTi doesn't have an O-ring. But you can buy a bag of 8 for $5 on eBay, and they can be replaced in a few seconds without any tools, so there's no reason that the O-ring has to ruin a hunting trip, except for the woefully unprepared.

FEEL MATTERS, really. See if you can try out these guns. If you love the way one of them feels, the little quirks each of them might have, or the difference in price, won't matter as much. I'd avoid Winchester, though, just because the future of the company is quite dubious IMO. If Olin sells the rights to someone else next year, but FN keeps the shotgun designs, it might be easier to get parts for the gun marked Browning, although many probably fit both guns. The next owner of the Winchester name could bring back a better lineup of Models 70 and 94 like Classic Coke, while ditching the semiauto designs that belong to FN. Who knows?

 

[9mmMike]

Well unless you're going to "do-it-all" in one day, an 1100 magnum with two barrels will work. You'll need to shop for a used one though as they're out-o-production. Not hard to find at all.
Mike

 

[ArmedBear]

Note: there are many shotgun cases that accommodate an extra barrel, too, so it's not out of the question to do it all in one day.

I'd be inclined to look for a good 1100 Magnum. By the time you've spent half the money you'd drop on the Browning, you could have the gun, a walnut stock, a synthetic stock, three barrels, and nearly a whole extra gun's worth of spare parts, from eBay.

 

[9mmMike]

One more thing about the older 1100 magnum.

THR contributor byf43 has been of great help to me supplying part numbers so I could upgrade my own older 1100 Magnum with better/modern parts. Remington has improved some stuff since my gun was made in '79 and I now have the new lifter (from the CM 1100) and the new-style piston. They also have new o-rings that should hold up well although I replaced mine when I first bought it and it's been fine.

Mike

 

[sm]

-Which gun fits you?
-Which guns have you actually shot a round of clays with?

See the deal is, if the gun does not fit - payload is not going to go where it is suposed to.
If the gun don't fit - perceived recoil is going to be greater. Anticipating recoil leads to flinching, vicious cycle starts with getting whacked, fear of getting whacked, missing targets, mental game is kaput, fatigue...before you know it, shotgun is sold, you buy meat at the store...
You learn how to play checkers with the geezers out front of the courthouse.

Problem is folks want the fuel economy of a 4 cylinder engine, with the towing capacity of a Peterbilt, and takes curves like it is on rails.

Ain't gonna happen.

In the old days Target loads were 2 3/4 dr for skeet, and 3 dr for Trap, with 1 1/8 oz payloads.
Semi Autos run with these loads. 2 3/4" shells felled clay birds, ducks, geese, deer and you name it.

.gov comes out with <expletitve> report on waterfowl, wanted non-toxic. Now the race was on again -Marketing- likes to come up with doom and gloom, and promote doom and gloom. Now more shotguns to use more loads and Market all sorts of other stuff. .gov can pound sand, I read the NILO report and others...I digress, pissed still...Bismuth was my friend - still is.

I have a '74 Win Super X Model 1 with over 200k rds that has felled clays and won me big money, felled live pigeons, felled geese , ducks, deer, and who knows what else .
2 3/4" chamber. I still use 2 3/4 dr adn 3dr 1 1/8oz payloads for a reason -

I have done the same thing with 1100s - only 2 3/4" chambers mind you, in 12, and 20 ga.

THE Softest shooting Semi is a Win 1400, again used it for everything in 12 and 20.

--
Advice - here goes...
I would buy a SX2 with wood stock.
I would tweak the fit, pattern the gun, get lessons and when 1/2 million rounds are shot thru it - *maybe* consider letting it have semi-retired status.

Then again a lady is still using a LNIB she bought from a fella going thru a divorce for $150 and she run 20K rds thru it in year for 4 years in a row.
Gun still runs, she has felled deer, all waterfowl, small game and taken a Defensive HD course with it. I watched her take $1k in cash from some boys talking trash and "put your money where your mouth is Yankee boys"

I get a kick out of pulling targets for ladies I assisted / instructed...*snicker*

I took 2 C notes running 200 slugs from my SX1, my gun run, the "low spark of high-heeled boys" guns wouldn't run...and they couldn't hit squat when the guns did run.
Just making sure my student remembered how to watch a cigar box...*grin*

Dove season was invented by shotshell manufacturers. Said by Southern boys about those that can't shoot.

Confuse the Masses Marketing Motto.


GunFit, BA/UU/R, and some fools just need money taken from them.
Some need a butt whuppin' at the same time.

Fear the person that shoots one gun and has forever, gun case ( if they have one) is busted, and if anywhere on that gun or near that person is a Gadsen Flag patch, sticker, bandana, anything. Just give them your money - gonna lose it anyway, just saves time not having to shoot.



Steve

 

[Dave McCracken]

Win/Win/Win situation. No dogs on that list. All of them have many happy owners. IMO, it boils down to fit and feel.

If t'were up to me, I'd get the 1100. Remington products have done well for me.

 

[byf43]

First things first. . . .


Mike, Thank you for the kind words. I truly appreciate them.
I'm glad that I could be of some assistance.

Next. . . .

shaggycat,

I can't comment on any of the other shotguns suggested or recommended here, for you, EXCEPT for the Remington 1100.

I have two of these wonderful shotguns!! One, a 1972 or '73 model that I recently picked up for $100. It is a 'standard'. In other words, it is chambered for 2-3/4" shells. (It hadn't been fired for 25 years, according to the seller.) This scattergun other than being filthy inside, looked really good for a shotgun that old and neglected.

The other, a 1983 1100 Magnum that I bought new.
This little gem set me back a whoppin' $354.00, new!!! (Ah. . . the old days!
Just let me keep today's salary!)


These 1100s are absolutely amazing. Very soft shooting!!! Mine have been 100%+ reliable.

With my handloads, my (original) 1100 with a 24" Hastings (2-3/4" chamber) barrel, the recoil feels more like a mild 20 ga or 28 ga. The recoil is almost non-existent.

I broke my neck 5 years ago and the MD's told me not to shoot anything that will 'jar' my neck.



Keith

 

[MCgunner]

THE Softest shooting Semi is a Win 1400, again used it for everything in 12 and 20.

I'll vouch for that! I own one and my friend owns an 1100. The Winchester, with light 12 gauge dove loads, is like shooting a 20 from the butt end. It's awesome! I have been shooting doves and occasionally clays with this gun for nearly 2 decades now. I take care of this gun, though it's no presentation grade gun, just a "Ranger" (cheap wood, no adornment). Danged good shooter and the price wasn't much more'n a 870 Express at the time! I got it at WalMart. It is no longer made, of course. No Winchesters are currently made, I don't think, what with the demise of the company.

 

[JohnBT]

"No Winchesters"

From www.winchesterguns.com

Q. Are there other factories making Winchester products?

A. Yes. Our other factories will continue production uninterrupted. Products made at these factories include the Super X line of shotguns including the new Super X3 autoloader and the new Super X Rifle (SXR) centerfire autoloader. Both are made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal. In addition, we will continue with our line of quality Select over and unders: the only production Belgium-made over and unders in the world. Our special historic guns -- 1885s, 95s, as well as other limited series rifles -- continue to be made at our factory in Japan. These factories are unaffected by the New Haven closure and we continue forward with our production and future plans.

 

[ArmedBear]

JohnBT-

FN does not own the rights to "Winchester" after next year, AFAIK. They might or might not keep the brand.

So now they're making mostly badge-engineered Brownings, and Belgian shotguns that could be sold under any name. They've quit making all the actual Winchester designs; they make their own guns with the Winchester name, with the exception of some special run retro rifles that could be stopped any time.

That seems to me like a MAJOR hedge, with an eye towards dumping Winchester, or at least keeping the company 100% open to dumping Winchester if Olin doesn't let them have it really cheap. They're devaluing the brand, possibly on purpose. They can sell the same guns as FN's; their 1300 police shotgun branded FN is their test case.

That said, the parts will probably be available as FN parts, unless FN doesn't think it's profitable to sell them, in which case they, as a foreign company, can fold their tents, and you can order overpriced replacement parts from Belgium.

Those are my thoughts, no matter what they're promising. How soon after their announcement did the 94 and 70 dry up? Weeks? Don't expect advance notice.

 

[JohnBT]

I'm betting they drop Winchester next year, but meanwhile I hope they'll keep making the guns they listed because I'm waiting to see an SX-3. Seems to me that for many years many of the nicest Winchester models have been made in Belgium and Japan. My SX-2 was made in Belgium in 2003 for instance.

I hope they crank out a year's worth of SX-3's before they start stamping Browning on them and running up the price.


"How soon after their announcement did the 94 and 70 dry up?"

I dunno, their recent production hasn't been high on my list of guns to own. I like most of the FN guns, but that's just me. Maybe it has something to do with JMB's long association with FN.

John

 

[ArmedBear]

Is the SX any cheaper than the Gold? I didn't think so, but maybe I'm wrong.

I certainly like the Select.

Anyway, I just think that a first-time buyer of a one-gun-for-everything shotgun should be aware of these things. I hope they do continue to make the guns I like under whatever brand name, maybe even in something other than 12 Gauge for a change.

Random rant follows:

There's something about Browning that I have a hard time getting excited about, even though I have one. Maybe its their aesthetic, which I kinda like, kinda don't. But I actually really like the Cynergy, which everyone seems to love to hate for some reason (nobody who's actually shot one, though), and I have no love for the Citori. Most of their guns seem like something that could appeal to a Belgian, but made by someone from Japan. Oh wait...

Like most Toyotas, there's nothing appealing about their style -- who comes up with this stuff? -- but they're damn good cars. My Toyota ran nearly forever, but never inspired the sort of love that my other vehicles have, despite being mechanically less sound.

 

[JohnBT]

The SX-2 doesn't have the speed-load feature of the Golds and most people say they aren't as finely finished as the Brownings. I don't really know, my SX-2 is covered in Mossy Oak Shadow Grass.

Here's a quote from an old article.

www.galleryofguns.com/Shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=7

"And even though the new Winchester does have the same gas-operating system as the Browning Gold, it is quite different from the Gold in many other ways. So don’t figure on buying a new Super X2 thinking you’re going to get a shotgun very similar to the Super-X Model 1 or a lower priced Browning Gold. The new Super X2, from my testing, can stand quite well on its own merits."

John

P.S. - My dad just bought a Toyota Avalon and not only does it look good, it runs like it's got a 280 hp V6 and a 5-speed auto, traction control, 17-inch wheels, NAV system, XM radio w/12 speakers, reclining REAR seats, sunroof, and is already getting 32 mpg on regular at interstate speeds. All this and a sticker price of only $39,600. Nice car for an 84-year-old.

 

[shaggycat]

Thanks for all the replies. Does anyone know anywhere near Louisville, Ky that rents shotguns? I have held all the guns I am considering, and it appears that shooting the guns would be that only step between me and purchasing the shotgun.

 

[ArmedBear]

Here, about a week ago, there was a big demo fair where I had a chance to shoot shotguns from Ruger, Remington, Beretta, Mossberg, Rizzini, and maybe one or two others. Unfortunately, no FN guns were there. But it was really cheap to try out some guns, and they had some that would be REALLY hard to find on a rental rack.

The forthcoming Remington 105CTi has the auto-load feature of the Browning, as well as bottom-eject, and I really liked shooting it. Too bad that A. it's not out in full-scale production yet and B. it's a new design, so we don't really know about its longevity. Think of an improved 11-87 gas system (no rubber O-rings) grafted onto an Ithaca pump receiver made of titanium and carbon fiber, with the Browning auto-load feature, that feels like a light 1100. A few rounds was enough to get me really interested (I hit all but one clay, even though I'd never SEEN the gun before, to say nothing ofshooting it).

Anyway, contact the manufacturers. Their reps go all over the country to these things, and this is the time of year that they do it, since it's warm outside and it's not hunting season. They might be able to clue you in to when and where.