Need advice for petite recoil sensitive wife

[rt_dreamer]

Took the wife to the range Saturday. All went pretty well except we discovered that she can't rack the slide on any of my semi-auto handguns. She's had surgery on her left hand and so can't grip the slide with enough force to pull it back. At this point, a revolver looks like the answer for her.

I don't have any revolvers yet, but am looking for something the wife can use. The primary purpose will be for home defense and travel defense. I have the 12 gauge next to the bed for nighttime use, but would like for her to have a revolver around should she need one (especially if travelling in the car).

She's fired both my .45 1911 and my 9mm SA-XD and after about 4 rounds of each stated that she really did NOT like the recoil on the .45, but thought she could live with the 9mm.

That said, I'm looking in the .357/.38Special category. She's very petite and seems sensitive to the actual pistol weight. As such, the revolver will have to be a balance between being heavy enough to reduce recoil while light enough she can pick the dang thing up.

My initial thoughts are .357 in 4 inch to keep the muzzle weight down but not any thing like an ultralight so it doesn't kick like a mule.

I'm thinking that she can practice with light .38 Special loads and then use lighter .357 loads or .38+P loads for defense.

I'm concerned with a snubby that at night the muzzle flash will be blinding, even with .38 loads.

I'd be interested in knowing what advice this group can provide.

Thanks

Rick

 

[Professor Gun]

I agree with your choice of a 4 inch .357. She could shoot .38s or even target load wadcutters depending upon how recoil sensitive she is. For those I teach who are new to handguns and may not practice much, I recommend this type of handgun to start with.

 

[Gordon]

If she has small hands the ruger SP 101 is nice, now that you can't get a Colt Police Positive Special. .38 spl is all she needs really! If she fits a model 10 S&W or Model 15 or thier stainless brethern then that prolly would be the best there is - and resonable price too on a great used one!

 

[sm]

Where is pax....?

I can appreciate and respect the hand surgery. I would give considerations on what the Surgeon has to say about recovery time and any limitations. Also consider her body is "going to protect itself" - meaning until she recovers, her body is going to send out signals.

Using weak hand to hold and strong hand to shove the semi - is a method many folks find easiest to rack a semi slide. Be it a smaller younger person, one older and arthritic, or such as your wife and surgery.

I advocate the use of .22 lr to teach and allow inexpensive training of basics. Revolver or Semi. Focus can be on correct basics and not worry about recoil.

Some with serious hand, wrist problems have gone to tip up Beretta's

Revolver, I would seriously go for a OLDER used Model 10[blue] or its Steel version Model 64, a dedicated .38 spl. Then try a bunch of different stocks to see what fits her hand. Wood stocks I prefer as 1) they can be whittled on for tweaking fit 2) for many the wood is easier on percieved recoil.

If you can visit a range, or have friends with a variety of guns...let her shoot a variety. Also, be really great if another lady shooter could assist with this.

Now Speer makes plastic training ammo, primer only fired and reusable. Dry firing is great, the abilty to actually shoot indoors if need [ need safe area, ventilated still] aids in confidence.

Light wadcutter loads from there, then work up.

Just sharing what I have done with ladies and working with folks with temporary or more permanent injuries.

Steve

 

[rt_dreamer]

Some great advice

thanks for the advice so far.

She's had the surgery a long time ago and what strength she has is all she'll get. We tried the hold left, push right technique on both autos... no go.

Rick

 

[P. Plainsman]

Revolver, I would seriously go for a OLDER used Model 10[blue] or its Steel version Model 64, a dedicated .38 spl.

Yeah, this situation cries out "S&W Model 10." No need to go with a heavier .357 if she's not going to use the magnum capability.

Plenty of used guns out there, and the current issue M10 is also an option (actual price is around $420):

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...d=10001&productId=14741&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

The .38 K-frame makes an ideal "novice" utility gun. It's a nice size and weight, heavy enough to damp the recoil, but not so heavy it'll feel like a pig of lead to a petite shooter.

As such, the revolver will have to be a balance between being heavy enough to reduce recoil while light enough she can pick the dang thing up.

Model 10!

Simple, usable sights. Very accurate. Eight zillion different grip options -- there's something out there that fits her hand. S&W triggers are easy for gunsmiths to tune, in case she needs the double action trigger lightened. Being a revolver, it is simple to operate and clean.

And it shoots a credible cartridge, unlike a .32 or .380 ACP. Stuff like the Speer 125 grain Gold Dot .38 +P ammo, the same load by Black Hills, or the Federal Hydra-Shok 129 grain -- is all mild recoiling (similar to vanilla 9mm in a steel-frame gun) and will get the job done, particularly from a 4" barrel. If she develops a bit more recoil tolerance, she can look into heavier stuff like the 158 gr lead SWCHP+Ps from Remington and Winchester.

Finally, .38 Special practice ammo is cheap and available everywhere.

 

[mnrivrat]

I'm sure there will be a lot of different opinions so I'll throw one at you as well.

I presently have a Taurus 731 in .32 H&R magnum. You might want to have her look at one of these. Mine is Titanium at 13 oz but they are no longer made. They do make the ulta-lite 731 still which is 17 oz . Still quite light but very managable from a recoil standpoint.

For plinking I shoot .32 S&W longs in the gun with very little recoil to deal with. For Carry, I use the magnums which have about the same energy as a standard .38 Special , and recoil is still not bad at all. I bet she's gonna like it .

 

[lanceman193]

My wife is 94 pounds.She is recoil sensitive and has small hands.She tried several revolvers and voted for a pre-lock 357 J frame 2 1/8 inch barrel 649.I loaded it with some 38 special 110 gr HP not plus p after best local smith I know(Paul at Plaza gunworks)did a beautiful trigger job on it.She can outshoot me with it(That doesn't say much)All the K frames were too big for her.The trigger span was too much.The 38 special Pre -lock J frames were still a handful but the couple of extra ounces of weight on the pre-lock J Magnum is perfect.She liked 649 over 640 and 60-9 and 60-10(2 1/8 and 3 inch).When she shoots it she smiles.Need I say more?????Lance....

 

[dcm]

.22 or .32

My contemporary suggestions would be:

• Training -> Model 317 Revolver - HIVIZ (8-shot .22LR)
• Defensive ->Model 351PD Revolver - HIVIZ (7-shot .22Mag)

A couple things. My wife has one of the now discontinued Beretta 86 tip .380's. Its recoil is more similar to a 9mm. I would strongly discourage it unless your wife was able to shoot one and decide before buying.

You may also consider a 4" Model 34 in .22. It has adjustable sights and is substantial enough to learn the basics. If it were necessary for it to serve as a defensive arm then you may look at CCI Velocitors. The ballistics are pretty respectable for the caliber. I have considered but not shot or tested the 60 grain Aquila SSS round out of a handgun. It may or may not have potential.

Other options include revolvers chambered for the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Magnum. I used to have a Model 31 which was fun to shoot as it had very little recoil. I have no experience with the .32 H&R Magnum round but I would have to imagine it might be brisk in a small gun for the recoil sensitive.

I am in no way suggesting the calibers previously mentioned are 'ideal' but your scenario presents its own unique challenges which must be overcome.

FWIW and respectfully submitted.

 

[P. Plainsman]

DCM, I think those options are more anemic than the circumstances warrant. Sounds like the poster's wife has a weak left hand but a normal right hand, and is not otherwise physically disabled. He also indicated that she is petite and somewhat recoil-adverse. If she "can live with" a 9mm's recoil, as he stated, then she can use weapons more effective than a snubnosed .22 Magnum. Charlie Petty reviewed the 351PD a few months ago for one of the major gun mags and recorded rather low velocity numbers from the gun's tiny barrel. Loud crack for not much more than a .22 LR's ballistics. Sounds like a bad bet. The .22 Mag cartridge needs barrel length to work.

The 317s have not gotten the best press either. Bad sight design (rounded front sight top, causing vertical stringing of shots) and not as accurate as the J- and K-frame .22s of the past.

As for .32 Magnum, I love the cartridge, but it is about equivalent to a .380 ACP. Acceptable if heavier rounds won't do. However, when I imagine the horrible scenario of someone I love having to use a handgun in self-defense, I find it a lot more comforting to imagine that person deploying a .38 Special +P.

 

[dcm]

A lot of variables...

The following quotes are what drove my suggestions:

but thought she could live with the 9mm

seems sensitive to the actual pistol weight

P. Plainsman,
You make valid points. I agree that the 'standard' answer is the avenue you are recommending. I also understand the level of discomfort in suggesting anything less than a +P .38 Special round for anyone.

rt_dreamer,
I am equally concerned about my recommendation. It was not easy to make. There seems to be a gap and this sitaution potentially falls into it. For instance, I do not know how much the gun can weigh for her to shoot extended range sessions. I also am reluctant to compare recoil from a semi-auto 9mm to a revolver. I also recognize the solution might also be expensive. I decided to err on the side of practice and skill-building.

I would suggest she shoot some .38 +P or 'lighter' .357 rounds before going in that direction. The revolver offers no recoil reduction like a semi-auto does other than a good pair of grips. In my experience some of the loads indicated actually recoil more than a 9mm that she said "she could live with."

My concern is that starting a recoil sensitive person out with more gun than they are comfortable with can sometimes be a detriment. I guess I am in the 'armed and capable' camp. I would rather have her shooting regularly than just enduring the time she is shooting 'her' self-defense gun.

Outside of the 'standard' answer the suggestions listed above are currently available from S&W. If you come across a .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Magnum then you may consider them.

 

[rt_dreamer]

again, great advice

Plainsman and dcm... both great advice. I am equally concerned that if her defensive gun kicks like a mule, she won't go to the range and practice as well as the fact that anything smaller than .38S +p is marginal for self defense. The truth is, she most likely won't go to the range twice a week like I do or compete in IDPA like I do in order to be better prepared for "what life brings". So, I'm assuming that of the 5-7 shots she could get off, 2 will strike the target and 1 will hopefully strike the target at a critical location.

Plainsman... you're right, weak left hand and good right hand.

lanceman...you mention the 2 1/8 " 649... nice gun, but how bad is the muzzle flash on that short of a barrel. I don't want her blinded on the first shot. I also appreciate the thought concerning trigger/grip length. She has fairly normal size hands, but not a ton of grip strength. I may have to have the trigger pull dropped down lower.

After doing a lot of research in the last 24 hours, I'm really leaning towards a 38Special +P only revolver due to physical weight of the gun and then use a medium grain bullet.

I need to get her to a good gun store with about 2 hours of time and have her simply pick up hold and "action" several revolvers, but as many of you know, some wives dislike the gun store as much as some husbands dislike the shoe store. I'll give you three guess and the first two don't count as to which category she falls into...btw, I hate shoe stores.

Thanks again for all the advice... it really is helping me to think through the decision process on trying to find the right gun for her to both be willing to practice with and be able to defend herself with.

Rick

 

[Jkwas]

+1 on the model 10 J&G has em used in very good condition for $200

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

+1 on the model 10 as well. J&G sales in Shotgun news has several used for $189.95 plus shipping

You could also go with a Taurus in .38 special. They are one of the only firearms that come with an unconditional lifetime warranty. The price is also right with them. Either way you get a great gun without breaking the bank.

 

[mnrivrat]

My Bet is she won't live with a K-frame gun because of its bulk and weight. An air-weight K frame in .38 Spl+P will recoil enough that she won't want to live with that.

In a J-frame size gun she will find the handling size she may like , but again she will dislike the steel frame guns weight and will want a reduced weight model which will give undesired recoil in .38 + P loads , and even give discomfort in standard .38 loads.

Therefore , if you let her in on the process, I think you will find her choosing a small reduced weight revolver in a caliber that gives mild recoil. Anything else in my opinion will be rejected by her and basically nullify the whole idea .

That's my opinion of course , but if your starting out with a person who is less than totaly enthusiastic in the first place it won't take much to discourge her from giving up the whole thing.

Yours and her choice , but I thought I would once again give you the reason behind what I recommended earlier. .32 H&R magnum has a comparable energy to the standard .38 Spl load with enough reduction in recoil to make it a great candidate in this case. Practice with .32 S&W longs offer even more recoil reduction in a light weight revolver and makes them pleasant to shoot.

I'd rather see a person actualy being comfortable in shooting & defending themselves with a .32 Magnum , than being turned off and uncomfortable trying to use a .38 Spl + P.

Beretta makes a couple models of auto's with tip up barrels that include the .380 auto. While not quite as powerful as the .32 mag it can be an OK choice using good ammo for self defense - such as cor-bon .

 

[22-rimfire]

The discussion seems pointed toward J-Frame Smiths. I have a 442 (38spl) and it is pretty snappy as far as recoil is concerned. I don't particularily like shooting it for extended sessions. I do have to admit that it is fun to shoot and reasonably accurate. If you want a J-Frame and are recoil sensitive, I would suggest the 32 H&R or 22 versions.

My alternative recommendation is to find a Colt D-frame such as a Detective Special (38spl). The 38spl Colt Diamondbacks (also a D-frame) are really sweet little revolvers! They are not heavy revolvers like a Ruger GP100, and have a long reputation for accuracy and reliability.

The other possibility is to locate a 4" Diamondback 22LR. Not a perfect choice for defensive purposes, but if you learn to shoot it and build up your shooting skills and confidence, I would not be afraid to carry one for defensive purposes. My 4" Diamondback was the most shot 22 I have and I felt very confident with it.

 

[lanceman193]

No muzzle flash shooting 110 standard 38 HP(not plus p)out of all steel 2 1/8 inch barrel .357 J-Frame.It is not a light gun but is compact enough,and the built in hammer shroud can come in handy.Lots and lots of grips for her to get anything she wants,like some pretty wood boot grips.Not much recoil and she won't flinch.A K frame gun is entirely too big for most women I know(Lucky???)

 

[rt_dreamer]

Thanks again

Well, as usual, this board has given some great advice. I think at this point I'll see if I can locate some local samples and let her shoot them.

Ultimately it's her gun and much like I don't buy her shoes I probably shouldn't buy her gun. She has to find something that she likes to both shoot at practice and will carry with her as needed.

Thanks again for all the great advice.

Rick

 

[tgfang]

.32 Magnum

I am with mnrivrat on this one. If your wife has small hands, a K frame (for example, a Model 10) may be too large. If her hands are not strong, an SP101 may feel too heavy. I think that any lightweight .38 will kick too hard for her comfort. My wife has rheumatoid arthritis; her hands are in rough shape. She was able to shoot my Taurus 731 with Federal hollowpoints without pain; the weight of the gun and the recoil were both acceptable. The Federal hollowpoints are 85 grain. Georgia Arms sells cartridges that are loaded with 100 grain hollowpoints.

Tom

 

[JERRY]

K frame..........

 

[tbeb]

My wife is petite. She has small hands that are not very strong. Her house gun is a Ruger Speed Six that has a 2 3/4" barrel. Speed Six has a round grip. Same gun with a square grip is the Ruger Service Six and Ruger Security Six. The latter has an adjustable rear sight. These revolvers are no longer made, but nice used ones can be found. (About a year ago I purchased a blue Speed Six in excellent condition with a 4" barrel for $210 out the door.) Grips are the original service type which do not cover the front or the rear of the grip frame. These make for the shortest reach to the trigger. Reach is a tad shorter than a S & W Model 10 with service type grips. Double action trigger pull was lightened to about 8 pounds by a competent gunsmith. Self defense ammo is .38 special +P 125 gr. JHP.

My wife shoots this combination much better than the Ruger P-95 which is a
9mm semi-automatic. We originally tried 9mm because I think it's a little more potent than .38 special. I'll also mention that she learned to shoot with a .22long rifle revolver.

 

[Jim PHL]

Yet another vote for a K frame .38. From what you've already said she won't enjoy .357's so why spend the extra money? The model 10 is an excellent suggestion and can be found in numerous configurations (barrel length, "bull" or skinny barrel, etc.) used but in very good condition at really good prices with just a little shopping.

I just bought a Model 15 specifically to take my wife and her friend from work shooting for the first time. (OK, I might shoot it once in a while, too! ) It's just a model 10 with the adjustable sites which I think are a little easier to see and use, especially for a beginner. These K framed .38's have a very slight but in your case positive difference in feel and balance from the .357 versions and can really be further enhanced by the right set of grips. From a 4" barrel there are plenty of non+P loads that would serve her well for defense and a lot of good really mild target loads for her to practice with. Even for a smaller woman who is recoil sensitive these are really great shooters. Besides, you know what they say about Model 10's (15's)...everybody should have at least one!

 

[dcm]

Thanks for the question...

because now I have a AirliteTi in .32 H&R Magnum. It has six rounds like my K-22 which helps me, at least, when I train with a revolver. Also, all of this talk prompted me to put a Model 18 in layaway. I hope you discover what works best for you and your wife. Bear in mind that this situation could very likely be dynamic. If so, then it is only a starting point and not the journey.

 

[Jim PHL]

I also wanted to add: at least have her handle a model 10 or 15. I think many people overstate how "big and heavy" they are.

 

[Iggy]

Jim PHL has it nailed

EVERYONE should own at least one K frame S&W 38.

I have helped a number of newbies, ladies included get started with a Mdl 10.