Need for Crimping Step, Pistol Brass, Single - Stage vs. Progressive

[The Glockodile]

I’ve just finished my first 3000 rounds of 9mm using range pick - up brass, using up 200 to 300 each range session, and have been lucky to have no “assembly” failures thus far beyond the first ten dummy rounds (implying that a sample size of 3000 is too small to generate enough significant fliers in the bell curve).

Reloading was done on a Forster Co - Ax, a single - stage press.

Expander mandrels were used to very slightly flare the case lips prior to seating the bullets.

Crimping was never performed.

 

[The Glockodile]

I am under the impression that when using a progressive press, one needs to flare the case lips wider, and as a result - crimping is more necessary.

And that the wider flare and crimping step is due to progressive presses having more slop and being less forgiving of misalignments due to their speed of operation.

Is this assumption correct?

EDIT: Context - automated bullet feeder.

 

[mdi]

I don't use a progressive so my post may not be worth reading. I would guess if the cases don't index to line up with the bullet seating operation, more flare would be needed to start bullets straight. I believe would study the alignment of case/bullet/seating die to see if more flare is needed for your press. I too use a Co-Ax too and do not "crimp" semiauto handloads (neck tension keeps bullets in place)...

 

[JohnMc]

Is this assumption correct?

No.
I don't flare anymore than on a single stage. I don't have a bullet feeder and place the bullets by hand.
Over-flaring work hardens the brass more than needed.
The mileage of others may vary.

 

[Walkalong]

I flare minimally on my progressive, don’t see why using one would necessitate more flare.

 

[The Glockodile]

If seating bullets by hand, I can imagine similar behavior with a progressive press.

How many of you don’t use a crimping step on your progressives, when using a bullet feeder?

 

[PO2Hammer]

Not in my experience.
I’m very conservative with flare in 9mm whether I’m using my turret press or my BL 550 progressive.
I do crimp, but just enough to eliminate flare and tuck in any case mouth burrs.

For a while I did skip the crimp die when using the turret press. Not to save time, it just wasn’t needed with a conservative flare.

And I don’t find the 550 any less accurate or consistent than my Redding T-7. With just 4 stations and a huge ram there’s no flexing of the shell plate. OAL’s are very consistent whether it’s the first, middle or last round.

 

[JohnMc]

I taper crimp cartridges for which taper crimp is appropriate, like .380, 9mm, 10mm, etc., and roll crimp the rimmed case stuff like.357 magnum & .44 magnum.

 

[JohnMc]

(neck tension keeps bullets in place)...

With taper crimp, it's still neck tension that holds the bullet. Taper crimp just sizes the case mouth to proper diameter. Well, properly done taper crimp, that is. Too much is no bueno.

 

[PO2Hammer]

If you’re using sorted brass, jacketed bullets and have a really good seating die that fits your bullets, you can skip the expander/flare die as well.
For a while I loaded 9mm and.38 Super with just 2 dies, a Lee sizing die and a Redding comp seater. I relied on the sorted brass for consistent neck tension and the Redding seated any jacketed bullet straight. I had to hold the bullet in place until it entered the seating die, but it always worked.
Never needed a crimp with those.

 

[JohnMc]

If you’re using sorted brass, jacketed bullets and have a really good seating die that fits your bullets, you can skip the expander/flare die as well.
For a while I loaded 9mm and.38 Super with just 2 dies, a Lee sizing die and a Redding comp seater. I relied on the sorted brass for consistent neck tension and the Redding seated any jacketed bullet straight. I had to hold the bullet in place until it entered the seating die, but it always worked.
Never needed a crimp with those.

I did that a few times for 9mm, with a Lee seating die. The particular bullets went in like butter, they were FMJs.

 

[CQB45ACP]

If you’re using sorted brass, jacketed bullets and have a really good seating die that fits your bullets, you can skip the expander/flare die as well.
For a while I loaded 9mm and.38 Super with just 2 dies, a Lee sizing die and a Redding comp seater. I relied on the sorted brass for consistent neck tension and the Redding seated any jacketed bullet straight. I had to hold the bullet in place until it entered the seating die, but it always worked.
Never needed a crimp with those.

Me too! 9mm & 45acp—size w/Lee & seat w/Redding, then shoot ‘em.

 

[Show Me]

I don't use a progressive so my post may not be worth reading. I would guess if the cases don't index to line up with the bullet seating operation, more flare would be needed to start bullets straight. I believe would study the alignment of case/bullet/seating die to see if more flare is needed for your press. I too use a Co-Ax too and do not "crimp" semiauto handloads (neck tension keeps bullets in place)...

Yes it's worth reading. Opinion page after all. I taper crimp to just take the edge off. I don't consider a crimp having any thing to do with neck tension for auto loaders. Like to just get rid of the edge when you slide your finger over it.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I am under the impression that when using a progressive press, one needs to flare the case lips wider, and as a result - crimping is more necessary.

And that the wider flare and crimping step is due to progressive presses having more slop and being less forgiving of misalignments due to their speed of operation.

Is this assumption correct?

EDIT: Context - automated bullet feeder.

No, this is not correct. It would be even less applicable when using a bullet feeder. Even if the alignment isn't perfect, wouldn't that be corrected upon entering the Seating die

I don't flare my cases at all as I use a (Lyman) M-die profile expander when loading on any of my progressive presses. I've found that the amount of expansion needed and the crimp required to straighten the case back out is more dependent of the bullet...coated vs. plated vs. jacketed

Using a progressive press, I expend the case mouth enough to secure the bullet as it travels between the bullet feeder and the seating die. The bullet feeder drops the bullet with enough force (gravity) to place it firmly in the cup created by the M-die. The bullet is held securely in alignment as it enters the sliding sleeve of my seating die. I always crimp my cases to insure that they case gauge, feed smoothly, and correctly headspace in the chamber.

9mm brass is so easy to come by that any extra wear on the case mouth doesn't concern me...I'll just go out and pick up another few hundred at the next match

 

[.38 Special]

I make no change to flaring or crimping when switching between single stage and progressive. I do crimp everything, though I suppose there is a fine line between "crimping" and "removing the flare".

 

[Atavar]

IMHO if you do minimal flare then you should do minimal crimp. Just sayin..:

 

[Walkalong]

semiauto handloads (neck tension keeps bullets in place)...

Correct, with a taper crimp to remove any flare left, if needed, which with some folks methods not needing it.

 

[EricBu]

I am under the impression that when using a progressive press, one needs to flare the case lips wider, and as a result - crimping is more necessary.

And that the wider flare and crimping step is due to progressive presses having more slop and being less forgiving of misalignments due to their speed of operation.

Is this assumption correct?

EDIT: Context - automated bullet feeder.

Well, as with so many things, "it depends". If I'm loading something with a jacketed bullet and a beveled base...I may not flare, or may not flare much. But if I'm loading lead, coated lead, or plated, or a flat base bullet, I'll flare more. Also, if you're using a bullet feeder, you do pretty much have to flare. Gotta have enough of bell for the bullet to drop easily out of the feeder, and in the case of a fast automated press, you've got to make sure that bullet goes deep enough that the motion of the shell plate turning doesn't knock the bullet out of the case.

 

[The Glockodile]

…as I use a (Lyman) M-die profile expander when loading on any of my progressive presses.

I suppose this is one form of expander mandrel?

 

[EricBu]

If seating bullets by hand, I can imagine similar behavior with a progressive press.

How many of you don’t use a crimping step on your progressives, when using a bullet feeder?

Always. For pistol, taper, just enough to get the flare out. For straightwall revolver,mild to wild depending on what I'm loading. For pretty much all my revolver stuff I've switched to the Redding profile crimp.

 

[nettlle]

No, this is not correct. It would be even less applicable when using a bullet feeder. Even if the alignment isn't perfect, wouldn't that be corrected upon entering the Seating die

I don't flare my cases at all as I use a (Lyman) M-die profile expander when loading on any of my progressive presses. I've found that the amount of expansion needed and the crimp required to straighten the case back out is more dependent of the bullet...coated vs. plated vs. jacketed

Using a progressive press, I expend the case mouth enough to secure the bullet as it travels between the bullet feeder and the seating die. The bullet feeder drops the bullet with enough force (gravity) to place it firmly in the cup created by the M-die. The bullet is held securely in alignment as it enters the sliding sleeve of my seating die. I always crimp my cases to insure that they case gauge, feed smoothly, and correctly headspace in the chamber.

9mm brass is so easy to come by that any extra wear on the case mouth doesn't concern me...I'll just go out and pick up another few hundred at the next match

A Lyman M Die flares the case. It may be called a profile expander but still works the same as a flaring die. Taper crimp dies on progressives are to remove the flare. If you can get by without a taper crimp die and there are not any feeding problems more power to you.

 

[The Glockodile]

Thanks, guys.

I think I got the clarification I need.

 

[maxxhavoc]

I flare the same on progressive vs single stage.

I crimp on a separate stage on progressive only. I usually crimp on a separate stage simply because I like the FCD crimp better, and it is only 1 extra handle pull for the entire session to do the extra step.

If I am doing single stage I would NEVER crimp separate on 9mm or straight wall pistol.

 

[Walkalong]

I suppose this is one form of expander mandrel?

It does both, expands and flares, like 99% of pistol die set "expanders". It just does a "straight" "flare"

 

[243winxb]

I suppose this is one form of expander mandrel? ("M" expander.)

M - Supplied with the RCBS die set. Better bullet alighment on seating.
Always taper crimp. Why? Different length brass will get a different crimp, or none at all.
No crimp may cause feeding problems & a round that is not fully chambered, may fire out of battery.