Need help. Colt won’t fire

[arcticap]

Shimming the nipples was mentioned.
Outlaw Kid mentioned shimming with some thicker aluminum foil like roasting pan foil, or even making a washer out of a soda can.
Conversely, some JB Weld can be put on the face of the hammer to extend its reach.
I recall seeing how someone threaded a screw into the hammer face to make a hammer extension, and then trimmed it to size.
You shouldn't need expensive gunsmithing.
Some aftermarket nipples might be long enough to help resolve the issue such as Slixshot or Ampco nipples.
But try the easy fixes first.

A slightly thick (by just a few thousandths) spacer will allow you to "dress" the end of the arbor so you can zero in on a specific barrel/cyl clearance.

Mike, does a spacer always correct a loose cylinder issue?
In some cases, doesn't correcting the clearance involve more than simply correcting the short arbor, but can require correcting the fit of the interface of the barrel lug to the frame?
Can anything else be involved with fixing a loose cylinder?

 

[Russell13]

Here is what it looks like with the cylinder out

 

[arcticap]

As mentioned, Smokin' Joe threaded a screw into his hammer face.
It could be done to have the same effect as extending the hammer face if properly executed to accomplish that goal.
He was using the screw to fill in the gap in his hammer face to help prevent cap jams.
Here's his post with photos showing how he did it. --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-for-better-performance.756534/#post-9543128

 

[skeeterfogger]

View attachment 921973 View attachment 921974 Here is what it looks like with the cylinder out

This is with parts aligned. Turn, if it will , the barrel to miss the mating surface. This way you can see if the barrel frame overlaps the main frame. If the barrel won't turn then there are ways to correct it.

If the barrel frame overlaps then the arbor needs shim.

If there is a gap yhe arbor need trim.

If the surfaces just meet it's ok.

 

[skeeterfogger]

To correct arbor binding clean the hole and the arbor. Put black marker on arbor. Assemble straight so arbor does not scrape. Try to turn barrel bofore pins mate to barrel. Turn back straight and disassemble same. Look for marks in black ink. Very gently using a fine file remove very small amount in areas with marks. Assemble and turn barrel but dont force. Repeat till binding resolved. All binding I've encountered has always been on the fwd 3rd of the arbor. Don't remove material aft of that. Want to keep the fit to a close tolerance.

 

[skeeterfogger]

Once arbor fits correct check cylinder gap at forcing cone. Hold cylinder back to check.

Looking for near zero to .003. Is great. Have seen up to near .010 and revolver still fires. Honestly I've never seen one so big a gap it wouldn't fire.

 

[arcticap]

A washer does correct the short arbor.
But correcting the short arbor with a washer does not necessarily correct the barrel - cylinder clearance or cylinder shake.
That may need to be done at the barrel - frame interface as Mike's photos indicates.
The interface could need to be filed by the amount needed to adjust the clearance, or the amount needed to reduce the cylinder shake.

 

[Russell13]

It looks to me like it lines up. I don’t see any gaps anywhere

 

[skeeterfogger]

What is cylinder to forcing cone gap?

 

[skeeterfogger]

Trim here to close cylinder gap but make sure to adjust arbor as needed to accommodate.

Also be sure pins are not bottoming out.

 

[Russell13]

I’ll have to get a shim to measure it

 

[skeeterfogger]

When arbor and cylinder gap is established check bolt fit.
Check gap inline with bolt slots.

Measure slot depth.

Cock hammer and measure bolt height.

Gap plus slot depth should be very near bolt height.
If bolt height short trim the bolt arm where it contact the frame inside. Also make sure the trigger/bolt spring is laying straight on the trigger and bolt. Sometimes if it is crooked it can rub the frame causing interference. If interference is found straighten and recheck height.
With those things correct it will fire. If not move to nipples provided the hammer spring tension is sufficient.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Mike, does a spacer always correct a loose cylinder issue?
In some cases, doesn't correcting the clearance involve more than simply correcting the short arbor, but can require correcting the fit of the interface of the barrel lug to the frame?
Can anything else be involved with fixing a loose cylinder?[/QUOTE]

Yes, an out of spec frame or out of spec (short) cylinder would need the frame /barrel lug surfaces addressed (or hopefully a replacement cyl). Typically you can remove the locating pins from the frame and lap the frame into the barrel lug (frame is harder than the barrel) to cure the "long frame". Makes for a nice fit (if /when needed) but it is very rare occurrence. Another problem that needs to be addressed from time to time is a long forcing cone. Obviously, removing material there is the fix.

Since a corrected arbor denotes the bbl /cyl clearance, I guess you could say a spacer ( or welding) is always at least "part" of the fix.

When testing ignition in the shop, I always point the barrel down just to make sure the cylinder is as forward as possible. A fail to fire means too much hammer /nipple clearance. Of course, nowadays I set them all up for a positive contact . . . they MUST go bang!!!
Mike

 

[Russell13]

Starting to think this may be out of my skill level. I’m gonna talk to a Smith tomorrow. I may have to sell it to one of you guys as a project gun

 

[stephen cockerham]

Could it be my wedge???? Mine comes out just by pushing the clip out with my thumb and then pulling it from the other side. I watched some videos and people had to use soft face mallets to get them out. Could my wedge not be holding the front of the gun in pace and that is why the cylinder has that little bit of play??

it could be and youcanorder one at Dixie gun works or a couple of other lpaces for 5 bucks or less

 

[skeeterfogger]

All this was out of our level till we learned.
Good luck.

 

[arcticap]

Even though most new C&B guns work just fine out of the box, these complications can shy people away from buying Colts.
But it's a good reason to buy a new Traditions Pietta since they come with a full one year Traditions warranty.
Some other companies may also offer a warranty or have a liberal return policy.
Old South Firearms and many gun shops sell Traditions Pietta revolvers that they get through their distributors.
Traditions isn't like Cabela's who won't fix anything.
The Remingtons just don't seem to be as problematic as the Colts can be.

I don't believe that Uberti or Pietta advertise where to send their defective guns to have them fixed under warranty.
They seem to leave that up to the forums and the internet to inform people about their options until it's too late after purchase to get them fixed.
I've heard about Uberti sending free parts to fix defective guns as well as the Pietta distributor that's owned by Pietta named EMF.
The distibutors like Taylor's Firearms and Dixie Gun Works also have gunsmiths that are more knowledgeable about BP guns and have all of the parts available to fix them on hand.

 

[arcticap]

Here's an example of a commercial gun smith shop that specializes in C&B revolvers.
But a person needs to be willing to ship their gun. --->>> https://www.muzzleloadershop.com/services-2/

THR member Hoof Hearted also does C&B gun smithing work.
But I don't know what kind of work that he's willing to take on.
You would need to contact him. --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/the-thr-1851-1860-club.770630/page-23#post-11342052

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.russell13, ill take a look at your colt and slick it up best i can...and ill for free minus shipping. Im not the best...but ive gotten lotsa "training" from Mike (45dragoon) and he has even complimented my work..even tho its nowhere near his perfection lol...but i make a setup somewhat like he used to using wire springs etc. Lemme know...got nothing to lose, ill even send you pics of me with my photo i.d. license and my face and all so that if u feel i would rob you or anything you can just call the cops on me im always willing to help a fellow enthusiest and got nothing better to do while stuck at home.

 

[Russell13]

Mr.russell13, ill take a look at your colt and slick it up best i can...and ill for free minus shipping. Im not the best...but ive gotten lotsa "training" from Mike (45dragoon) and he has even complimented my work..even tho its nowhere near his perfection lol...but i make a setup somewhat like he used to using wire springs etc. Lemme know...got nothing to lose, ill even send you pics of me with my photo i.d. license and my face and all so that if u feel i would rob you or anything you can just call the cops on me im always willing to help a fellow enthusiest and got nothing better to do while stuck at home.

that is very nice of you. I know a local gunsmith who is going to take a look at it for me and see what need to be done. If it turns out to be to costly I’ll send it to you and you can take a crack at it

 

[45 Dragoon]

Hopefully your local Smith knows and understands what he's looking at.
Looking back through this whole thread, the biggest focus has been on the cones blah blah blah. The telltale sign is the fact that there is some ignition, just not reliable. The easiest way to get reliable ignition is to get positive contact with hammer face and nipples. To do that, you simply push the cylinder rearward (barrel off ) and then see if you can push it forward with the hammer (hammer pushing against nipple of course). If there is no movement, you need to remove any "extra meat" from the arbor or staking pin in the hammer slot and or material from the inside curve of the hammer.
When you do get some movement pushing the cylinder back and forth (front and back), you will have excellent ignition. If the nipples are in good shape, there should be no reason to change them.
Obviously at this point it is a no dry fire setup. I don't set up dry fire capability but to do that, you can dress the hammer face down incrementally to zero contact. Then you'll have dry fire capability.

All of the above is to be done AFTER establishing a close tolerance barrel/cyl clearance (preferably .0025" - .003").

Mike