need help getting the ok for sawed off shotguns, silencers, full auto.

[cajun47]

before all this i want to ask what can i do with my rem. 12 gauge legally right now? how short can i cut the barrel right now to be legal? and is it alright to have no choke at all? i live in louisiana.

a gun dealer at the gun show told me i can fill out a form to the atf, get approval from my local sheriff, finger print, and pay a $200 tax for the following:

1. sawed off a shotgun as short as i wish.(i really want).
2. install a silencer on a hand gun or rifle.
3. make my ak47 full auto. i may have misunderstood this one. maybe its just for existing full autos or can i really make my own?

where do i begin? where do i get these forms?

 

[Art Eatman]

The process is complex for the paperwork for full-auto and cut-down firearms. For starters, spend some time at the website of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE).

It's less complex to buy, than to try to make your own. But, full-auto stuff is costing from $1,000 on up to $20-some-odd-thousand.

As far as your existing shotgun, the minimum barrel length is 18". It's "insurance" to not cut to less than 18-1/4". Measurement is from the face of the closed bolt. There is no regulation about chokes; people change these all the time, via screw-in inserts.

FWIW, Art

 

[cajun47]

i once heard i had to add 3" if i had a 3" chamber. not true im guessing.

 

[VARifleman]

The measurement is with a dowel down the bore to the breechface.

 

[Powderman]

Also, some bad news. You will not be able to convert your AK legally.

Remember, the NFA register is closed; this means that your full auto would have had to be on the books prior to 1984. If it is not, then it cannot be manufactured.

The exception are those FA firearms manufactured for law enforcement agencies--note, agencies, and not individual officers.

It is interesting to note that individual LEO can purchase full auto. However, once they leave the Department, the FA weapon (under current law) must be surrendered, and is no longer their property. Whether you get compensated for it or not is up to the Department.

 

[wdlsguy]

In addition to the federal paperwork, Louisiana has some state paperwork. I suggest spending some time in the General Class 3 and Gulf States forums at ar15.com.

 

[Fly320s]

how short can i cut the barrel right now to be legal?

18 inches for shotguns. There is also a minimum overall length, but I don't remember what it is. 26 inches?

and is it alright to have no choke at all?

Yes.

a gun dealer at the gun show told me i can fill out a form to the atf, get approval from my local sheriff, finger print, and pay a $200 tax for the following:

1. sawed off a shotgun as short as i wish.(i really want).
2. install a silencer on a hand gun or rifle.
3. make my ak47 full auto.

1. True. As Art said, buying from a NFA/Title II dealer (or using a NFA/Title II manufacturer) is easier than making your own.
2. True. You can even get a detachable suppressor, which you can use on several guns of the same caliber, with appropriate paperwork of course.
3. No, absolutely not. You may not make a new machinegun. You may buy a machinegun that was registered prior to May, 1986.

Important: All of the above answers are dependent on Louisiana laws. They are all legal to do at the federal level, but you need to make sure that they are legal to do at the state level.

Do an internet search on "how do I buy a machinegun." The process isn't that difficult.

 

[cuervo]

Remember that the $200 tax is per item, not one time covers everything in the future.

For $200 you can cut down your shotgun.

For another $200 you can add a stock to a handgun to make an SBR.

For another $200 can can buy a 14" bbl for your AR-15, making it an SBR.

For another $200 you can add a silencer to a handgun.

etc...

 

[redneckrepairs]

Remember, the NFA register is closed; this means that your full auto would have had to be on the books prior to 1984. If it is not, then it cannot be manufactured.

IIRC and i may be wrong.. but there are at least some " lightning link" or auto sear devices out there for the ak that in and of themselves are the regestered machine gun , and the host rifle is unimporntant . I know this is the case for the ar15s and belive it is also true for the ak platform .

Edited to add : The expense of one may well be a heck of a factor tho .

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

the ATF Form you would use to make an SBR/SBS is here:

http://www.titleii.com/pdf/010205-Form1.pdf

remember that it must be printed as a duplexed page, meaning one page front & back. print two duplicate copies for the ATF.

you also need to get ATF applicant fingerprint cards, the ORI on them reads "DC ATF Firearms & Explosives Div" or something, don't use your local PD applicant cards as it will look like you are applying for a job at your local PD.

you also need one copy of this:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f533020.pdf

get two passport photos (one for each copy of the Form 1) and affix them to each Form 1, usually i recommend rubber cement.

get the CLEO signoff on both copies of the Form 1.

mail the entire package: two copies of the Form 1, Certificate of Compliance, two fingerprint cards, two passport photos, and one payment of $200 to the ATF.

the ATF will issue you a tax stamp on one of the two forms and mail it back to you.

 

[cajun47]

so if i want to saw off my shotgun without paper work i can cut it 18".

im gonna cut an old single shot 12 gauge first. i could just open the barrel and measure from where i put in the shell right? i'll go 18 1/2".

for my rem. 870 i could measure from where the barrel meets the receiver and would be save?

and i'll make sure i don't cut the stock on the single shot and make the entire gun under 26".

 

[wdlsguy]

You can get a factory 18" barrel for your 870.

 

[proud2deviate]

im gonna cut an old single shot 12 gauge first. i could just open the barrel and measure from where i put in the shell right? i'll go 18 1/2".

for my rem. 870 i could measure from where the barrel meets the receiver and would be save?

The safest way to do it is to measure with a dowel down the barrel, resting firmly on the closed breech. IIRC, there was a big snafu a while back where a bunch of Saiga shotguns got their barrels lopped off to 18" before being imported. Problem is, the breech actually sits inside the barrel a wee bit, so the barrles measured something like 17.8" legal-wise. There's no such thing as "just a little illegal" here. A 17.95" barrel will get you in just as much trouble as a 10".

As already noted, it's also a good idea to make it 18.5" for two reasons. First, if you bugger up your muzzle somehow, you have a little room to fix it. Second, there's always a chance that some cop's ruler might have a different opinion of inches than yours. Think of it as a half-inch security blanket

 

[cajun47]

"18 inches for shotguns. There is also a minimum overall length, but I don't remember what it is. 26 inches?"

can someone confirm the 26" overall length? cause i can cut the stock off my single shot and it would be under 26". i'll cut it to 28".

 

[BigFatKen]

'Ol cant miss

I have an old double barrel that I had cut off to 20". It is far easier for me to handle than the 30" heavyweights that were there. It swings easily now. A hard kicker 'tho.

I call it " 'ol can't miss" because with no choke, it shoots an enormous pattern at the close ranges I usually see small game.

 

[wdlsguy]

can someone confirm the 26" overall length?

The term “short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification or otherwise) if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

18 USC 921