Need help identifying this pistol

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jrskydawg68

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I found it while cleaning out my Grandpa's house. It is very cool, but have no idea what it is. PLease Help

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here are a couple pics of the matching markings on it.

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German proof marks, no maker's name.
It has the long cylinder of a .22 Velo-Dog. From wiki...
The Velo-Dog was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Charles-François Galand in the late 1800s as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks.
These little things were made by a number of small companies all over Europe and even in the US.
 
German proof marks, no maker's name.
It has the long cylinder of a .22 Velo-Dog. From wiki...
The Velo-Dog was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Charles-François Galand in the late 1800s as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks.
These little things were made by a number of small companies all over Europe and even in the US.
Look at the size of the bore and cylinder in the first pic. That is more in the .41-.44cal range.
The hallmarks should tell something.
 
Pictures are bigger than life size. This is a dinky pocket pistol.
It isn't made out of silver, those are proof marks, not hallmarks. German proof marks.
Age, I'd say between 1890 and WW I.
 
Interesting find, could you post a picture of it with something for size comaprison? A ruler would do nicely. Did your Grandfather ever mention anything about it or was he into guns in any way?

Again, nice find.
 
FWIW, I agree that even without a scale, those chambers are too large for a Velodog.

However, the gun is German; the Alfa Catalog of 1911 shows (p. 153) an identical gun (except for a round barrel and hard rubber grips) chambered for the 8mm Lebel or 7.5mm Nagant cartridges (roughly .32 caliber) which looks more reasonable. The price was 15 mark 50 pfennig (about $3.90 in US dollars at the time). If you wanted one in blue for the 8mm Lebel, the cable code was TERRAXU; in 7.5 Nagant, it was TERRANF.

Value today will run about $100-150.

Jim
 
Could be. Hard to tell when the OP gives no measurements.

I bet an 8mm Lebel would have a bit of kick in a pocket pistol, even though it was not a whole lot of service pistol for the French.


I gotta get that Alfa catalog and a Zhuk book.
 
On most of those guns, the numbers are assembly numbers. The guns were often the product of a consortium of makers; one shop would make cylinders, another barrels, and so on. When assembly time came, the parts were put together with a lot of filing, numbered, and then taken apart for hardening and finishing. The numbers made sure each gun's parts got back together again. Since guns were handled in batches of 20-50, numbers usually are one or two digit.

Jim
 
Sandpaper??

It appears you "cleaned" the pistol with sand paper. Unfortunate, as having done that substantially reduced any collector value it once had.
 
would be interesting to know the exact bore diameter ....

a beautyful piece ... looks like awesome condition too.

I´d want to find old cases and make some light ammo for it ..

Great conversation piece, or BBQ backup-gun :)
 
WOW SDC, that's it!! That's very cool. Does it say the make and model in the catalog?
 
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No, sorry; the page is headed "Alfa" (a name used by the Adolf Frank Export Factory, completely separate from the current Spanish "Alfa"), and the section this revolver is in is just marked "Revolvers for Lebel and Nagant Cartridges". Adolf Frank would have bought his goods wholesale from a wide variety of manufacturers, inside and outside Germany. To order your particular model, you just had to wire 17.50 (1911 price) to Frank, and he would mail one back to you.
 
Just for fun, here is something I wrote a while back on cable codes. Hope it is of interest.

With the popularity of the book and movie The DaVinci Code, plus the ability and legality of NSA codebreaking and snooping, the idea of codes and ciphers is very much in the public consciousness. But there is also a code connection with guns.

People looking over old gun catalogs often encounter pictures or descriptions accompanied by a string of seemingly random letters. Most think they are some sort of factory or dealer stock number. In fact, they are codes.

In the late 1880's and right through the last part of the 20th century, much international commerce was done by exchange of cablegrams. Rates, as for telegrams, were set on the basis of the number of words, usually counting both the address and the text, but charges were much higher than for domestic telegrams. So, quite obviously, the shorter a cablegram was, the less it cost to send. In order to say the most with the fewest words, commercial cable codes came into use. There were printed code books, and different businesses invented their own codes. These were not limited to guns or even to what we might call "hard" commodities. A Hollywood agent might, for example, cable an overseas movie distributor the name of a movie and advise "EPWCY" if the picture is a charming love story, or "EPWOK" if it is a mystery drama.

In 1920, the catalog of A. Aldazabal of Eibar, Spain, told customers that if they wanted the AAA brand 7.65mm pistol to cable "SUBJO." "SOFOK" would bring the 6.35mm version. The German Adolf Frank Export Company (ALFA) would send a Browning Model 1900 in 7.65mm on receipt of a cable saying "JIEFFESIE" or the Colt M1903 7.65mm hammerless for "POTOX." If the 9mm (.380 ACP) version of the Colt was wanted, "POTIMI" would be get it sent on its way.

There were similar code names for guns and ammunition in catalogs by Savage, Winchester, and almost every company that did any significant overseas business.

Nor were codes and shortcuts limited to text. Companies used short hand cable addresses, almost like the e-mail addresses of today. The cable company would either send the message along (some larger companies had their own cable connections) or would know the full address. Never mind that a cablegram might be addressed to "COLT NEW YORK", it would make its way to Hartford in jig time.

Probably the most famous cable address in firearms history was derived from an old Latin saying, "Si vis pacis, para bellum", if you want peace, prepare [for] war. The Deutsche Waffen und Munitions Company (DWM) thought the idea appropriate for an arms company and adopted the cable address "PARABELLUM BERLIN." They also adopted the term as a trademark for their products, including their new pistol, which they called the "Parabellum Pistol", choosing to ignore the designer, one Georg Luger.

Jim
 
Maybe it is just the new photos, but that "mild cleaning agent" looks like it took a rather nice finish off that pistol.
 
there were velo-dogs produced in Liège in 6.35 browning (or .25 acp)
I heard (not confirmed) that a lot of those where distributed among postmen for "dog-protection"
 
The VeloDog was a long .22 caliber cartridge for revolvers that were for use by riders of bicycles for protection against dogs; the canines made a habit of chasing the new-fangled contraptions and nipping at the riders' legs. The name was a combination of "velocipede", an old word for bicycle, and "dog". Strictly speaking, a VeloDog revolver is one chambered for the VeloDog cartridge, but the name fascinates people and many European revolvers of the general type have erroneously been called "VeloDog" even though chambered for other cartridges.

After about 1906, many European revolver makers took advantage of the fact that .25 ACP (6.35 mm Browning) and .32 ACP (7.65mm Browning) are semi-rimmed, and chambered revolvers for those popular calibers. But as noted, they are not really "VeloDog" revolvers.

Jim
 
Was that cleaning solution some kind of kitchen degreaser? I think you stripped all the bluing off.
 
Velodog

I have a similar gun, but mine is 7.65 cal, with German eagles on the right side and a diamond symbol with either SP or SD on the left. Like yours, it is a hammerless 5 shot revolver with a folding trigger. My Father-In-Law took it from a German officer when liberating camps at the end of WW II. On the base of the stock it says "1862".

Only responses I have gotten from gun shops is that it is probable Belgian made, and that it is a "ditch" or "boot" gun, made for concealment.

Any thoughts?

Jim
 
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