macavada
Member
You're connected with them?! That's really cool. I hear about Black Box Voting on Randi Rhoads all the time.
Good luck.
Need help of a NETWORK ADMIN - tech question but trust me, MAJOR political import!!!
- Thread starter Jim March
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You're connected with them?! That's really cool. I hear about Black Box Voting on Randi Rhoads all the time.
Good luck.
Jim March
Member
Googling:
"Jim March" "Black Box Voting"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="Jim+March"+"Black+Box+Voting"&btnG=Google+Search
616 hits.
LoneStranger
Member
Sssshhush Jim! You'll scare him.
Ladies and gentlemen this is all related to the ballot and voting. Everything possible needs to be done to run down every thing. Free and honest elections are the responsibility of everyone. Diebold has been shown to lie through their teeth. Everything electronic in the voting arena needs vetted seven ways from sunday.
Mute
Member
Yes. But we need to separate the cases of incompetent design from the legitimate attempts at fraud. There is a proper response for each.
jnojr
Member
Sure, but we need to know what we're talking about, first. I get a kick out of the people who keep talking about DHCP... we don't know what kind of logs are invovled, let alone what they actually say. If/when Jim can post the relevant snippets, we can give a more informed opinion. Until then, this thread is pure speculation, and worth precisely nothing.
Graystar
Member
I can't believe this thread is still going.
We DO know what kind of log is involved. It is the Windows Event Log...specifically, the System Log. The message in question came from the Microsoft DHCP server. Matt-man’s explanation is exactly right. Look at it here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=1395103&postcount=54
There is nothing going on here. Jim March just doesn’t understand that two computers connected with a 6ft cable use the same exact networking system as two computers on opposites sides of the world connected through the Internet. He’s obviously not a networking person. If he’s serious about this then he should have a real network security engineer review the entire log, instead of making alarmist posts about messages that HE thinks are trouble. He’s obviously not qualified to make those determinations.
Jim March
Member
It's been a while since I was in the "business", and I wasn't familiar with the latest error messages. Most of my server admin experience was Netware versus M$ stuff anyways. Once my memory was jogged on what the 192.168.xxxxxxxx block meant, I felt a bit dumb because year, about four+ years back I was dealing with that.
However.
There ain't supposed to be a network cable plugged into this thing except during specific periods. And this error didn't occur during one of those periods. I've seen the certification docs for the procedures to be used on these.
Bev is scanning the logs. I'll be able to post 'em soon. If it's plugged into a LAN cable at all in the period in question, that's an issue. IF we can show that it's cross-wired into the county intranet (even if behind a firewall) that's a MAJOR issue and would certainly be a violation of California law, and probably Florida's.
---------------
I would like to add that Graystar and I have had some serious differences of opinion on other issues. In my view, he's specifically ignored info and when pressed to explain specific points he's claimed he did before when he didn't. I have since made a point of not arguing with him on Constitutional issues. I think he's personally biased against me at this point, and I can assure all that it's mutual, and his biases are going to get in the way here. Bigtime.
So I'm asking him to butt out of this thread, permanently, just as I've pulled out of any discussion of constitutional issues with him. Too much baggage going on and this is too important for that. We have enough people with current and extensive LAN techie experience to catch any flaws once we start digesting the logs.
However.
There ain't supposed to be a network cable plugged into this thing except during specific periods. And this error didn't occur during one of those periods. I've seen the certification docs for the procedures to be used on these.
Bev is scanning the logs. I'll be able to post 'em soon. If it's plugged into a LAN cable at all in the period in question, that's an issue. IF we can show that it's cross-wired into the county intranet (even if behind a firewall) that's a MAJOR issue and would certainly be a violation of California law, and probably Florida's.
---------------
I would like to add that Graystar and I have had some serious differences of opinion on other issues. In my view, he's specifically ignored info and when pressed to explain specific points he's claimed he did before when he didn't. I have since made a point of not arguing with him on Constitutional issues. I think he's personally biased against me at this point, and I can assure all that it's mutual, and his biases are going to get in the way here. Bigtime.
So I'm asking him to butt out of this thread, permanently, just as I've pulled out of any discussion of constitutional issues with him. Too much baggage going on and this is too important for that. We have enough people with current and extensive LAN techie experience to catch any flaws once we start digesting the logs.
anapex
Member
I can, we still don't have the full log so we can't say for certain what's going on. It could be something bad and it could be something normal, who knows. Personally I'll wait until I see the logs until I make a decision.
Graystar
Member
You’ll *never* know for certain what’s going on by looking at the system log. It just doesn’t have that kind of information. But as far at the specific log entry is concerned, there is no question here. The error is very specific and only occurs for one event. That’s what Microsoft says.
I’ve always fully explained my positions in all discussions I’ve been a part of. Don’t confuse a lack of explanation with your refusal to read anything that doesn’t follow the beat of your drum.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
Winston Churchill
beerslurpy
member
Jesus christ people, calm down.
Diebold runs off of windows PCs and an Access database. If you wanted to falsify election results, you dont need to result to complex trickery involving the network. You just edit the results on the machine. There is no reason to suspect wrongdoing in this manner because the entire system itself is insecure.
Computers are routinely given ethernet devices because it is cheap to put them on motherboards. The devices are turned on by default but often not hooked up to anything.
192.168.x.x address space is entirely private. It is not found on the internet. If 192.168.2.4 does not exist on your local network (indeed, if you lack such a network this would be true) then there is nothing to worry about.
Possible causes of this attempt at network access are:
-the diebold programmers were using 192.168.2.4 on their private network for some sort of debugging purpose and having the voting machine talk to that computer so they could ensure that it was working as expected. When the machine is only hooked up to the modem, it fails to connect to any local network machines and the debugging code does nothing.
-something in windows has developed a liking to 192.168.2.4 (possibly when it was hooked up to another local network) and is trying to access some service that no longer exists at that address. The diebold machines are probably using default windows configs which means a lot of services are running and doing their thing. This is harmless but it might involve poking around the local network (sniff for netbeui traffic on a windows network someday lol flood) to find the network services it needs. Windows can be chatty at times.
-a virus that is trying to propagate itself across a local network but is hanging on the first address in its memory because there is no ethernet cable. This is extremely farfetched, and even if the worst case scenario were true, it is 100 pecent unlikely that the virus would know how to tamper with election results or do anything truly naughty. Viruses like to propagate for the most part and rarely target specialized applications directly (except disabling virus scanners, obviously).
It is impossible that it could be:
-an attempt to reach something on the internet. Once you leave your local network, that address is unroutable. The routers will just laugh at you. It has been this way since the dawn of the internet. Certain addresses just arent allowed to be used on the internet.
-spyware. Spyware would probably piggyback on the HTTP transport layer that IE provides/uses because HTTP is passed through firewalls, HTTP is innocuous and HTTP gets lost in the flood of other HTTP traffic. Spyware also tries to reach outside addresses, not local ones.
Diebold runs off of windows PCs and an Access database. If you wanted to falsify election results, you dont need to result to complex trickery involving the network. You just edit the results on the machine. There is no reason to suspect wrongdoing in this manner because the entire system itself is insecure.
Computers are routinely given ethernet devices because it is cheap to put them on motherboards. The devices are turned on by default but often not hooked up to anything.
192.168.x.x address space is entirely private. It is not found on the internet. If 192.168.2.4 does not exist on your local network (indeed, if you lack such a network this would be true) then there is nothing to worry about.
Possible causes of this attempt at network access are:
-the diebold programmers were using 192.168.2.4 on their private network for some sort of debugging purpose and having the voting machine talk to that computer so they could ensure that it was working as expected. When the machine is only hooked up to the modem, it fails to connect to any local network machines and the debugging code does nothing.
-something in windows has developed a liking to 192.168.2.4 (possibly when it was hooked up to another local network) and is trying to access some service that no longer exists at that address. The diebold machines are probably using default windows configs which means a lot of services are running and doing their thing. This is harmless but it might involve poking around the local network (sniff for netbeui traffic on a windows network someday lol flood) to find the network services it needs. Windows can be chatty at times.
-a virus that is trying to propagate itself across a local network but is hanging on the first address in its memory because there is no ethernet cable. This is extremely farfetched, and even if the worst case scenario were true, it is 100 pecent unlikely that the virus would know how to tamper with election results or do anything truly naughty. Viruses like to propagate for the most part and rarely target specialized applications directly (except disabling virus scanners, obviously).
It is impossible that it could be:
-an attempt to reach something on the internet. Once you leave your local network, that address is unroutable. The routers will just laugh at you. It has been this way since the dawn of the internet. Certain addresses just arent allowed to be used on the internet.
-spyware. Spyware would probably piggyback on the HTTP transport layer that IE provides/uses because HTTP is passed through firewalls, HTTP is innocuous and HTTP gets lost in the flood of other HTTP traffic. Spyware also tries to reach outside addresses, not local ones.
Zak Smith
Member
I've only scanned this thread, but..
Realize that IP traffic can be transmitted over modems, you know: PPP and SLIP are transports for TCP/IP over modems.
-z
Realize that IP traffic can be transmitted over modems, you know: PPP and SLIP are transports for TCP/IP over modems.
-z
LoneStranger
Member
Risasi;
The problem with that approach is that it will most likely result in a Toxic Waste spill and you don't even want to be involved in the resulting paperwork much less the cost of cleaning.
You really need to give more consideration to others when you make suggestions.
The problem with that approach is that it will most likely result in a Toxic Waste spill and you don't even want to be involved in the resulting paperwork much less the cost of cleaning.
You really need to give more consideration to others when you make suggestions.
Heh,
Being a geek myself, involved with many legal/police/government entities I concur. IT guys generally are full of BS, don't know what they are talking about. Only last 5-7 years in the field before changing job venues, and are pretty arrogant. Yeah call Hazmat if you shoot one, that's for sure.
As for my response, I don't think it's anything. Most computer related problems are nothing. Many times obscure, but small. Then a few are real problems. We have an acronym PEBCAK (Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard) In this case it's the geeks running the show. Bad idea. They get power hungry and get off on controlling everything for you. It's just this thread has gone on forever about essentially nothing. Which you may not see from your side of the elephant.
Being a geek myself, involved with many legal/police/government entities I concur. IT guys generally are full of BS, don't know what they are talking about. Only last 5-7 years in the field before changing job venues, and are pretty arrogant. Yeah call Hazmat if you shoot one, that's for sure.
As for my response, I don't think it's anything. Most computer related problems are nothing. Many times obscure, but small. Then a few are real problems. We have an acronym PEBCAK (Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard) In this case it's the geeks running the show. Bad idea. They get power hungry and get off on controlling everything for you. It's just this thread has gone on forever about essentially nothing. Which you may not see from your side of the elephant.
Graystar
Member
I see...freedom of speech for everyone except those that disagree with you. You sure do know how to demonstrate your support for the Bill of Rights.
macavada
Member
Alright Jim, what's going on. I heard Bev today on Randy Rhoads, and she didn't sound like she was shooting straight. Sounds like a lot of people are unhappy with black box voting.
Thumper
Member
Absolutely hilarious!
Looks like Bev and Co. are putting the hurt on the Dems' desperate fantasies...and using DU contributors' cash to do it!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=161885
Hey macavada...we're all friends here: How much did you donate?
Looks like Bev and Co. are putting the hurt on the Dems' desperate fantasies...and using DU contributors' cash to do it!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=161885
Hey macavada...we're all friends here: How much did you donate?
macavada
Member
I didn't donate anything. But the way the interview went, it doesn't sound good.
It doesn't matter if you gave money or were a sympathizer, anyone associated is going to have egg on their face if Black Box Voting starts falling apart based on infighting and leadership problems.
By the way, Thumper, did you vote for that scumbag DeLay?
It doesn't matter if you gave money or were a sympathizer, anyone associated is going to have egg on their face if Black Box Voting starts falling apart based on infighting and leadership problems.
By the way, Thumper, did you vote for that scumbag DeLay?
Thumper
Member
Yes. I know not only The Scumbag, but his wife Chistine, and especially his daughter Dani, all pretty well.
If you'd like to send him a thank you letter for his remarkable pro gun efforts, you can address it to
Tom Delay
10701 Corporate Drive, Suite 118
Stafford, TX 77477
macavada
Member
Nice post, Thumper. That was funny. Thanks.
macavada
Member
Well, I can't give you a lot of specifics on what was said or not said. I was in my car at the time listening to Randi Rhodes interview Bev Harris. Randi accused Bev of not returning phone calls, and not going to testify before congress when many involved in the whole voting scandal did testify.
Also, it seems there's been a falling out between Bev and another person (Andy?) who was working with her with regard to understanding the voting machines.
Randi started talking about the money she helped raise for Bev's organization, and alluded to how the money was being spent.
Generally, Bev seemed very evasive, and could not give good explanations on what they (BBV) were doing and how they were directing the investigation. No good answers for any of Randi's questions.
If there is anybody on this board that knows what's going on, it is probably Jim March. Jim, can you share what you know?
Thumper
Member
DU has collectively been going through delusional hystrionics since the Bush win. (It's a huge conspiracy!")
Black Box Voting is an organization that has sworn to get to the bottom of various perceived voting irregularities. Bev Harris is at the forefront of that bunch.
She has been the golden child of DU and the far left lately, evidently garnering quite a bit of cash in her crusade.
Thing is, the only results she's produced so far have been detrimental to the Kerry cause, therefore, cries of "traitor" are being heard. She has a habit of threatening her detractors with lawsuits.
DU is in meltdown over the whole thing. I wish I was a good enough person not to enjoy it so much.
Black Box Voting is an organization that has sworn to get to the bottom of various perceived voting irregularities. Bev Harris is at the forefront of that bunch.
She has been the golden child of DU and the far left lately, evidently garnering quite a bit of cash in her crusade.
Thing is, the only results she's produced so far have been detrimental to the Kerry cause, therefore, cries of "traitor" are being heard. She has a habit of threatening her detractors with lawsuits.
DU is in meltdown over the whole thing. I wish I was a good enough person not to enjoy it so much.
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