Need help restoring old chrome pistols.

[esmith]

I have 3 chrome plated revolvers that are in need of some serious restoring. They all date back to before 1900. The one revolver i have that is in the worst condition is a H & R Auto Ejecting 32 W.CTGE, and theres a number below the grip that says 226681. Now what should i use to rid the gun of pitting and rust? I have some penetrant that used on cars, rusty screws, etc but i don't know if i should use it on these. Also, are there any other techniques to ride these guns of rust? Suggestions?

Also would anyone here consider not firing these pistol because their old. Several people have told me not to but i think they would hold up. They seem pretty sturdy and the cylinders line up perfectly.

 

[esmith]

Come on someone has to know how to do this.

 

[Slamfire]

What qualifications do you have to state that these revolvers are safe to shoot?
Are you an expert in non destructive testing? Perhaps a materials scientist, maybe a metallurgist?, at least a gunsmith with familiarity with these firearms?

There is a reason why these revolvers were called “Suicide Specials”. They were built cheap and sold cheap. Even a period writer such as Elmer Keith reported blowing the topstrap off a 32 topbreak with factory ammunition.

Any firearm built around 1900 was made of materials that today would only be used as rebar. They were made from plain carbon steel, which was smelted under the most primitive of process controls. The metallurgy of that period was just emerging into a science. By 1925 or so metallurgy was much more mature, but not at 1900. I consider post WWII era metallurgy a fully mature science as far as carbon steels go.

The fact that yours has rust, and I assume deep rust, just weakens the structure even more.

Don't waste your time or your money.

 

[bannockburn]

I agree with Slamfire1; these guns are wall hangers not shooters. Clean them up if you want; Flitz will remove some light surface rust. Other than that, unless there is some sentimental value to them, I'd say just put them away and get something a bit more practical.

 

[22-rimfire]

Just so you know, these guns are not "chrome". They are nickel plated. Some solvents will remove the plating. Also rust can occur beneath the plating. Depending on how badly rusted they are, I doubt you can do much to restore them. Use a little Flitz. H&R's are not worth much if that is what they all are. Don't shoot them unless they are inspected by a gunsmith.

 

[esmith]

What qualifications do you have to state that these revolvers are safe to shoot?
Are you an expert in non destructive testing? Perhaps a materials scientist, maybe a metallurgist?, at least a gunsmith with familiarity with these firearms?

There is a reason why these revolvers were called “Suicide Specials”. They were built cheap and sold cheap. Even a period writer such as Elmer Keith reported blowing the topstrap off a 32 topbreak with factory ammunition.

Any firearm built around 1900 was made of materials that today would only be used as rebar. They were made from plain carbon steel, which was smelted under the most primitive of process controls. The metallurgy of that period was just emerging into a science. By 1925 or so metallurgy was much more mature, but not at 1900. I consider post WWII era metallurgy a fully mature science as far as carbon steels go.

The fact that yours has rust, and I assume deep rust, just weakens the structure even more.

Don't waste your time or your money.

Well considering you couldn't have been more of an a sshole in answering this post i guess i won't use them. The main idea of this post was to find out how to restore them, which you completely ignored.

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

Well considering you couldn't have been more of an a sshole in answering this post i guess i won't use them. The main idea of this post was to find out how to restore them, which you completely ignored.

You asked the question:

Also would anyone here consider not firing these pistol because their old. Several people have told me not to but i think they would hold up. They seem pretty sturdy and the cylinders line up perfectly.

Don't ask questions that you don't want answered.

 

[esmith]

No ill ask questions and hope for somebody who isn't going to act like a smartallack. And if some one does im going to let them know about it. I came into this forum curious and friendly and when people start acting like a jerk it really gets on me.

 

[Majic]

Any firearm built around 1900 was made of materials that today would only be used as rebar. They were made from plain carbon steel, which was smelted under the most primitive of process controls. The metallurgy of that period was just emerging into a science. By 1925 or so metallurgy was much more mature, but not at 1900.

Not completely true. Some firearms made in that time frame used the finest steels that even today rates a very high quality. The '98 Mauser handles cartridges generating 50,000 psi and the old rifles are still perfectly safe today. The 1908 Luger is known to only operate reliably with high intensity 9mm rounds (which equates to +P and +P+ today). So not all metals from the era are of poor quality.

 

[Logan5]

Well, you are going to want a full gunsmith checkout before you fire one of these little revolvers. Finish wear is what it is, and it's an especially bad scene with turn of the century nickel plating, but if you've got a clean bill of health from a gunsmith there's no reason not to shoot one with appropriate pressure loads (except that they are pricey and maybe scarce... .38 S&W isn't cheap, for example.)
Looking at the finish, there just aren't a lot of remedies for corrosion getting under the nickle plating. For surface problems, you can always try some light polishing, but any major difficulties are a different story.

 

[Slamfire]

No ill ask questions and hope for somebody who isn't going to act like a smartallack. And if some one does im going to let them know about it. I came into this forum curious and friendly and when people start acting like a jerk it really gets on me.

Actually, I had fun writing my reply. You had previously asked a number of people for their opinion, they provided you good advice, and yet your considered opinion was

“I think they would hold up.”

Well, sometimes the thick headed need to be hit with a large hammer before it makes an impression.

The advice I gave you was good, and best of all free. This is a public forum, I could have been much nastier, I enjoyed pounding on you and I hope it keeps you from pulling a topstrap out of your skull.

Hey, don't take it personnally.

 

[esmith]

I don't think these revolvers are nickel plated because they sure look a lot different from my nickel plated .22 WMR. They are alot more shiny. Which leads me to chrome plated. I could be wrong.

 

[Slamfire]

Not completely true. Some firearms made in that time frame used the finest steels that even today rates a very high quality. The '98 Mauser handles cartridges generating 50,000 psi and the old rifles are still perfectly safe today. The 1908 Luger is known to only operate reliably with high intensity 9mm rounds (which equates to +P and +P+ today). So not all metals from the era are of poor quality.

I recall Ludwick Olsen providing a very short synopsis of a metallurgical analysis of a pre WWI DMW Mauser. The short answer would be “garbage”. Wish he had provided the analysis as I would have understood it. While numbers like 50,000 psia look impressive, the actually loading on the lugs is in the order of 6000 pounds. The wheel bearings in my truck are under a heavier load.

There are plenty of accounts on forums of accidents with old firearms. One I recall was a straight pull Navy Lee that killed the shooter. Of course we have all read the data base on single heat treat 03’s blowups. Remember P.O. Ackely’s blowup tests on actions? A M1917 action shattered. A bud of mine had a M1895 receiver ring go into orbit.

One should not confuse the fine machining and surface finishes with material quality. However, if you can provide a link or reference to a material analysis on actions of that time, I would be grateful.

 

[esmith]

"Actually, I had fun writing my reply. You had previously asked a number of people for their opinion, they provided you good advice, and yet your considered opinion was"

Actually in this thread you were the first to reply if you look a little further. Also note that i said "I think they hold up" BEFORE you made your reply, this means that i did NOT have the same outlook on the revolvers after people gave their responses. That said you immediatley came out and started acting like the biggest a ss i have ever met on ANY forum (which i belong to quite a few). You could have been a lot nicer and maybe actually persuaded me in believing what you said. Instead you ran your (most likely) fat mouth and ruined any chance of me respecting you in any way. I certainly hope you don't mimic your actions in real life like you do here, because if you do you have to be one of the most difficult people to live with.

Hey man, don't take it personally!

Anyway i have decided to take it to several gunsmiths and ask around on some other forums. Even if they are okay to shoot i still probably won't, as i own other revolvers of the same caliber. This thread was mainly devoted to finding out how to restore these guns, instead immature children came in and had to spin things way out of proportion.

 

[Stoney]

Highroad gentleman, Highroad.

 

[Jim K]

In spite of some unfortunate answers from super experts, the real problem in restoring those guns is not whether they would be safe to fire but whether it is worth it or not.

What can be done is to have a plating shop remove the old nickel plating (not chrome) electrically, then polish and blue the gun normally. Re-nickel plating may also be possible, but usually doesn't turn out as well as bluing. I have done this on some S&W's and Colts of that era and things worked very well. It may be argued that those were quality guns, but in that period, H&R was also a quality maker.

The trouble is that about the minimum cost will be $75-100, which is more than those guns are usually worth, unless in near perfect original condition, which they obviously are not.

I am inclined to agree that you might be better off cleaning the guns up as well as possible and keeping them as examples of century old guns.

As to firing, most of those old guns, unless very badly worn or rusty, can be safely fired. Most are in .32 S&W or .38 S&W, cartridges that are still loaded to pressures suitable for those old guns.

As to a penetrant, try G96 Gun Treatment; it is a good penetrant and cleaner.

The pic shows a couple of S&W .38's that were originally nickel plated. When I got them, the nickel was peeling and the guns were a mess. But I only paid $25 each for them and so some work was worth it, at least to me. (Yes, the one has a J frame wood grip - S&W never changed the spacing or the key points on the frame.)

Jim

 

[bill larry]

Ohhh Jim.....you shouldn't have shown me those....you just cost me some money, sir!

 

[Serpico]

Not to be a Smart Alec, but it's not smartallack.

According to G.L. Cohen, author of Studies in Slang Part 1 (1985), the phrase smart alec arose from the exploits of one Alec Hoag. A celebrated pimp, thief, and confidence man operating out of New York City in the 1840's, Mr. Hoag, along with his wife Melinda and an accomplice known as "French Jack," operated a con called the "panel game," a method by which prostitutes and their pimps robbed foolish customers.

A search of several of the more reliable dictionaries pretty much confirms this definition. The Oxford English Dictionary traces it to mid-1860s slang, while the American Heritage Dictionary (4th ed., 2000) and Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (16th ed., 1999) tentatively trace the etymology of the phrase to Hoag.

The "panel game" consisted of sliding walls that would enable Mr. Hoag to sneak in whilst the mark was sleeping and steal valuables. Before Mr. Hoag, a prostitute's accomplices would wait until the mark was asleep, then burst into the room. But the marks got wise and would block the door with a table or chair propped up under the doorknob, thinking they would then be safe from intruders. "Smart" Alec Hoag, because he never woke the victim, would be on the other side of town before the rube even knew what had happened.

 

[gandog56]

Just be warned that if there is any collector value for old pistols, restoring them would LOWER their asking prices.