Need Mauser/1903 help

[maximus11]

Hi all, not sure if this is the right place for this but here goes... I have several questions. My uncle passed away recently and while digging thru his estate, the attic has produced four complete actions, apparently still in the shipping boxes from who knows when he bought these. Two 1903 springfields and two what appears to be K98 Mausers, all complete with bolts. After a brief discussion, turns out I now own these.

So I'm thinking of taking one of these and building a 338-06 hunting gun. So here's the questions:
Which one would be easier to do, Mauser or 1903?
Do all Mauser bolts have to be bent/rewelded for scope mounting?
The Mausers are marked K98, is this large ring or small ring?
The Springfields are marked 1903. One is also marked Mark I. The serial numbers are 1,300,000 and 1,400,000 range.
Whats the difference between 1903 and 1903A3?
What caliber restrictions are there for either of these? I figure they need to stay within the 30-06 bolt face/length. However, we also found a .300 win mag rifle that my uncle apparently built on a 1903 action. So I'm assuming that action is strong enough for that.

Now I've built a rifle or two in the past, nothing too complicated but I have to admit I know almost nothing about either of these action types. So my first reaction is to "sporterize" these things... Now I KNOW ripping apart military relics is blasphemy and all, but these are only the actions, no barrels, no stocks, nothing. I figure tryin to restore these to original military specs will do nothing but make a rifle of a bunch of mismatched parts that's not worth much anyway.

Anyway, any help or advice is greatly appreciated before I get in over my head and start chopping away at the wrong thing. I don't mind being in over my head as long as I know it going in.

Dave

 

[rcmodel]

Do all Mauser bolts have to be bent/rewelded for scope mounting?

Yes, but so do the 03 Springfield's.
They would also have to have low-swing scope safety's or new triggers with built-in safety's installed.

The Mauser's are marked K98, is this large ring or small ring?

Large ring 98's measure about 1.410" at the front receiver ring.
Small ring 98 Mauser's measure about 1.300".

The 03 serial numbers are 1,300,000 and 1,400,000 range.

Springfield receivers were properly double heat treated after serial #800,000.
Rock Island after 285,507.

So both of yours are double heat treated and safe to re-barrel to any caliber.

Whats the difference between 1903 and 1903A3?

The later 03-A3 used a stamped steel receiver sight dovetailed to the rear receiver ring. All 03's previous to that used barrel mounted rear sights and do not have the receiver dovetail.
Also used stamped sheet metal magazine & trigger guard, etc.
They were also not as nicely finished as the earlier 03's.
They were also all made by either Remington or Smith-Corona.
Besides, if it is an 03-A3, it will say so on the receiver

What caliber restrictions are there for either of these?

Either action can be re-barreled to any 30-06 head size case with no modification to the bolt face or extractor.

Either action can have the bolt face opened up to take any "standard length" belted Magnum caliber like the .300 Win, .338 Win, etc..

The fact of the matter is though, at todays gunsmith prices?
If you don't have the equipment & skills to build the rifle yourself from start to finish?

You would be money ahead to sell the four actions on GunBroker or somewhere, and buy a brand new Weatherby MkV, or a couple of Savage's in the caliber of your choice!

You might about break even when you got done, and have a better rifle or two.
(As opposed to paying a gunsmith to build a high quality sporter on a military action!)

rc

 

[Jim K]

I don't know of any Mauser marked "K98". WWI era carbines were marked "Kar.98" and WWII era K.98k's are marked "Mod. 98".

The M1903 actions may have come from DCM in exchange for "low number" actions that were sent in. But those actions should be fine for .338-06, and easier to convert than the Mausers which will need the magazines opened up.

I am inclined to agree with rcmodel, though. Remember, you have to buy a barrel, have it installed and chambered, have sights put on or the receiver drilled and tapped (a real pain on the '03's and costly because you pay for the broken taps), have the bolt turned down and a new safety and/or trigger installed, then have a stock fitted, the whole thing blued, etc., etc. I think that by the time it all adds up, you will have at least twice as much as just buying a modern sporter. Whether you want to sell the actions to cover part of the cost would be up to you.

Jim

 

[RKRCPA]

I'm going to go the opposite direction and say build a custom if that will make you happy. I had a '03A3 made into a tack driver of a 22-250 back in the '80's and my current deer rifle is a rebarreled Mauser 98 that was done about the same time. Yes, you'll put more money in a custom than you will a factory rifle but who cares, life is short, have fun.

 

[dirtyjim]

do you know what your father intended to do with the actions? if you or one of your relatives have any idea i would consider building at least one of the mausers and one of the springfields the way he wanted to build them as sort of a tribute if not i would still build two of the rifles in the classic style instead of trying to turn them into remchesters.

a 338-06 would be fine on either rifle, both have been done with out to many problems.

for the bolt i would send them to accu-tig for new handles to be weleded on, accu-tig will do the work fast and for less than most smiths will charge to forge a bolt.
for the stocks i would use great americans european classic for the mauser and their g&h or wundhammer pattern for the springfield.
fit both rifles with classic lyman 48 receiver sights, no scope on the springfield & mwm square bridge style mounts and talley rigns on the mauser with a peiod weaver k2.5 or k3 scope. banded front & rear sights along with a barrel band sling swives followed by a rust blue job and you'll have two rifles that can be passed down or easily sold in the future.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Yes, you'll put more money in a custom than you will a factory rifle but who cares, life is short, have fun.

This does it for me also. Building custom/sporters from the actions certainly WILL cost more than many production rifles. I have several hunting rifles that I built from M98 Mauser actions and would not trade any of one them for two production rifles.

 

[maximus11]

Thanks everyone for the replies. That helps clear up a few things. I'm gathering that either of these projects would be pretty straight forward (for me) except for one thing, the scope mounting problems. Apparently both these would require new bolt positions, safeties, drilling, etc. Now I'm really smart an all, if fact I'm so smart I know full well that I should never attempt to weld, cut, heat, bend or hammer on any firearm that I ever want to function right in the future. So all those things would have to go out to someone else. Thats not as fun.
Looking at the Mausers again, they came in shipping boxes labled "Action K98 .308". They have "new" stamping that says "K98 .308 GERMANY C.A.I." These were apparently bought from an outfit called Century INternational Arms Inc. None of the original markings say K98. There is a date on both actions stamped on the forward receiver of 1940.
Does the .308 designation mean its a short action? 7.62 is also stamped on the receiver. I just assumed they would have been 8mm. We also found a rifle my uncle built in his safe that is on a Mauser action chamberede in 22-30/30 ackley Improved. I have no idea if it feeds or if its intended as a single shot. But he built it.

Anyway to me the building of a new rifle never has been about the cost. If it were I'd never build anything. Heck my son and I are just spent about $300 rebuilding a .22 pump we bought for $39. ...and I just saw Rem SPS rifles brand new for $399. Its more about doing it and coming out with a unique rifle that no one else has. I guess the Mauser thing got started back in the day because you could get them for so cheap.

 

[dirtyjim]

for the drilling, tapping & rebarreling i would recomend skaggs gunsmithing, he is economical and has done enough mausers that its second nature.
there are a lot of options on the safeties for both rifles. their are right & left low scope safeties as well as winchester style side safeties for both rifles. timney also makes triggers with intergal side safeties for both rifles.


i agree on building rifles not being about the money but i've also put together some very nice rifles for less than the wallyworld specials.
i've bought three factory bolt rifles in the last 10 years and they were bought as projects, remington 799 mini-mausers in .223, 22 hornet & 7.62x39, they will all be full blown customs in the pre-war british style when i'm done so even if i buy a factory rifle its getting whacked in the head and gutted out.

 

[Jim Watson]

Does the .308 designation mean its a short action? 7.62 is also stamped on the receiver. I just assumed they would have been 8mm.

The Nazis were not building "short action" .308 rifles in 1940, they were undoubtedly 8mm to start with. What I THINK you have, from the 7.62 marking, is actions from Israel, off rifles converted from German war booty for their military and then surplused. The importer markings don't necessarily mean much.

We also found a rifle my uncle built in his safe that is on a Mauser action chamberede in 22-30/30 ackley Improved. I have no idea if it feeds or if its intended as a single shot.

While I can't say about Unk's particular rifle, it would be difficult to get a Mauser to feed a short rimmed round based on .30-30. My local gunsmith says that back when this stuff was REALLY cheap, he built a number of target and varmint rifles in various calibers on surplus Mauser actions and never even checked the magazines. He and his customers just naturally figured that such a rifle would be fired single shot. He says his deluxe guns were built on FN Benchrest actions with solid bottom, natural single shots.

 

[RKRCPA]

What I THINK you have, from the 7.62 marking, is actions from Israel, off rifles converted from German war booty for their military and then surplused

My Mauser was of this variety except it does not have any indications of the importer. In big, ugly numbrs it says 7.62 on the action under the front scope ring. I bought mine in the 80's when they were real cheap. I swapped the 308 barrel for a NIB Oberndorf barrel in 7mm, added a Buehler low scope safety, Timney trigger and a synthetic stock. With a 2.5x scope it's all the deer rifle I'll ever need in Pennsylvania. Every so often I think about getting a new barrel to replace the stepped military barrel but so far I haven't, why fix it if it ain't broke.

 

[lynxsnare]

I spent 30 years waiting to build a 35 whelen on a 1903 and finaly did. The wood was good old american black walnut that was 30 years old with nice grain nothing too showy but nice. I guess your question on weather or not your getting in over your head or not caught my attention. The answer for most of us that are financialy challenged is of course. The whelen with an ER Shaw barrel timney trigger and factory 250 gr bullets won't let any game animal by out to 250 yds if I do my part and probably farther just haven't tried it yet. The problem with building any rifle on a springfield or mauser action is stopping. My ol' 06another Springfield and the beginning of my slow but progresive addiction that I've hunted with since I was 12 just recieved a boyds stock and a blue job. I have another chambered in 308 Norma in progress. I have a very accurate 1908 Brazilian mauser in 7x57 I'm thinking should look great in a G&H style classic stock. If you didn't have to buy the actions you are way ahead. Barrels cost money and stocks the skys the limit, blueing isnt to bad and yes by the time you are done you will have the price of a new rifle into them but there is a religious experiance in building one that one does not get by buying one off the shelf. Have fun and if you get bored with a project I'm sure there is a few of us out there that would be interested in an old but in good condition Springfield or Mauser .

 

[jimmyraythomason]

The problem with building any rifle on a springfield or mauser action is stopping.

Amen! Preach on brother! I haven't found a stopping point yet (actually,I'm not seriously looking for one).