Need some advice

[Slide45]

I'm new to black powder, with that said, first of all I know there are some strong feeling on the trad. vs mod..
I have decided to go with some kind of inline. But I need some good advice.
50 vs 45 , 28 bbl vs 26 24 bbl , bbl strenth , Thumbhole stock , 209 conversion kits you get the idea. I would be in your debt to have some experienced information.
Thanks in advance and have a Merry Christmas all

BW

 

[arcticap]

IMO choosing a barrel length is secondary to choosing an action style, unless you have a specific need or desire to reach out to extra long distances (i.e. - pronghorn or beanfield shooting).
Are you a stand hunter, still hunter, target shooter or all 3? Woods or open spaces? The weight affects handling characteristics and while a longer barrel length may provide slightly more velocity and accuracy, the advanatges aren't always noticiable to an offhand or snap shooter, and heavier weight can promote fatigue for the still hunter.
But weight does reduce recoil and that is also desirable, but more so if hunting in a warmer weather state where the hunting clothing worn may not be as heavy to help absorb it.
A benchrest shooter may want all the weight that they can get, so then go with the heaviest laminated stock material, and don't forget to add the weight of the scope.
Sometimes the smaller caliber barrels are heavier too!
Caliber choice depends more on the size of the potential game and how flat you need the bullet to travel (big bodied deer vs. small deer, bear, elk, etc...) Sure there are sectional density and ballistic coefficients...but caliber size helps too).
I shoot with a short barrel for woods hunting and for easier handling, and I have a wood stock and scope for more weight/less recoil.
Every rifle characteristic can have an advantage and disadvantage, and that includes the price of the rifle too!
Is barrel strength really an issue for you? If it is, then buy American.
What are some of the rifles that you have in mind?

 

[rifle]

I don't know the name of the rifle but.....the Knight rifle that is 52cal. and fires true 50cal. bullets with 52cal. sabots surrounding them sounds good. The disc elite maybe?
The Savage rifle that can handle "smokeless" powder is a doosey too.

 

[Slide45]

Thanks

I'm looking at the TC line, I mentioned the bbl strenth because I read it here on the forum. I'll try to find the mention.
The omega has caught my eye, but then so has encore and the Pro-Hunter I just have to decide on the cost of the PHunter. They sure are proud it. I'm left handed so finding a LH Thumbhole stock is also more expensive.
Thanks for your time and input, and I agree with all that has been said.
I have been hunting for 20 some years , never took up B/P .
I primarily hunt from tree stands. I also still hunt from time to time.
The hunting here in Ga. is little different than in Colorado. The places I hunt here have limited range . Three deer so far and the farthest shot was 150 yards. The weather is hot to mild with not much distance to travel so the wt. issue should be a problem.
I was at the range sighting in on my 270 and there was a guy with a TC encore with a thumbhole stock. He mentioned he had a 209 primer conversion kit using a 22 casing , he also mentioned he was shooting 45 cal bullets with jacket to fit his 50 cal encore. This all seemed "Greek" to me . He was putting them in 2" to 3" at aprox 150 yards consistently. No doubt he new what he was doing. He was zeroed in at 200 but the range there is 150 at the peak of the knoll.
What B/P rifle do you both shoot and how do you like them ?
Again thanks for your time.
BW

 

[arcticap]

I wish more guys would post about the reasons why they bought their inline model. I'm still shooting my discontinued .54 Lyman Cougar because the length of pull and stock dimensions fit me really well. It's one of the older plunger bolt action designs that I prefer that uses a #11 cap. I never had a misfire with it and I can shoot alot of different caliber bullets using the right size plastic sabots: .44, .45, .50 & .54 conicals. The action design is longer so the barrels are usually shorter (~22 inches), even though TC makes the similiar Black Diamond Long Range Model with a 26 inch barrel.

It's interesting that the fellow at the range mentioned a 209 conversion kit using the .22 case, maybe that's a misunderstanding that doesn't involve the primer? The TC Black Diamond does come with an interchangable 3 way ignition conversion system with nipples for 3 different types of primers:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.p...interchangable+flame+thrower+ignition+systems

I don't hunt from a stand or use a rest, so having a comfortable stock and being able to hold it reasonably well offhand is more important than any other factor to me.
I have another rifle with a very similiar configuration that I haven't even set up to shoot yet. It's a discontinued stainless Marlin .54, same action style and barrel length with a wonderfully light trigger, except with a synthetic stock and ambidextrious bolt. Very short, lightweight stock with a #11 nipple which was also made in .50 caliber. These models are still available from limited sources, but everyone wants the 209 primer system for the extra performance. This older inline design did initially provide "extra" performance, but many models now are made with longer 26 to 28 inch barrels. To me, that's a shotgun length barrel!

 

[BigV]

Let me throw in my $.02 worth. I have been shooting and hunting with muzzle loaders for over 30 years now and have been through lots of different guns in that time. My first was a TC Hawkins that I purchased over 30 years ago. It was a good shooter and I harvested many deer and spent hours at the range just shooting it. I could shoot round ball or buffalo bullets but because of the twist rate of the barrel the new sabots and powerbelt bullets didn't have many advantages. I still have this gun and recently handed it down to my 21 year old son.

My next purchase was an in-line Remington ML 700. It was a great shooter and held tight groups at 150 yards and beyond. However there was a major design flaw in the bolt action. Since the bolt was not sealed, the blowback from shooting caused powder reside to build up inside the bolt and coat the main spring inside. After around 10 to 15 shots at the range, the main spring would become so coated with powder residue that it would hang up causing misfires. For the average Joe hunter, a good cleaning of the barrel and nipple was all that was done to the gun. The bolt was not disassembled during cleaning and resulted in a rusted up corroded main spring that wouldn’t work the next time the gun was used. I sold this gun after a couple of years as it was to cumbersome to take apart the bolt and clean it after 10 shots at the range.

My next purchase was a TC Encore. I never could get this gun to hold consistent groupings at 100 yards. I tried many combinations of powder and bullets. I even sent the gun back to TC and they told me the barrel was fine. Another issue I had was cleaning the barrel. The TC Encore has (or had, don’t know if it’s been changed) a 209 primer ejector that must be removed from the gun in order to remove the breech plug. It required a small allen wrench to accomplish this task and was a real pain in the behind. TC finally made an after market primer ejector that rotated away from the breech plug so the breech plug could be removed without removing the ejector. After trying 2 different scopes and many hours at the range, I finally got rid of the Encore.

My last purchase was a TC Omega with a thumbhole stock. I have had this gun now for around 5 years and I believe it’s a keeper. It holds 2" groups at 150 yards and is a real breeze to clean. No special tools required to gain access to the breech plug and the 209 primer set-up has never failed to ignite the powder. No special discs require to hold the primer in place and the gun seems to hold up well even in the rain, with never a misfire.

Sorry for this long winded post, but that’s my experience. I still love to make my own lead round balls and take the old Hawkins out for a long shooting session. But in reality, I like the accuracy, dependability and ease of use the newer in-line muzzle loaders offer.

 

[Slide45]

Thanks

Thanks for your help. I don't mean to be ignorant but you go through life and at 55 thinking you know about most things and then you take up something new and realize just how much you do know.
I'm looking forward to shooting B/P this year God willing. I can't wait to get to the range, (after hunting season is over).
Oh I found some information on the conversion kit he was speaking about. (I think) see the link below. Anyway thanks for your time and effort and help. I still don't know what he was talking about regarding the 45 in a 50 ?
I have narrowed it dn to the omega or the pro-hunter. The rep at TC stated they are getting a good responce from the lefties out there so maybe they will make a left hand thumbhole stock for the P/Hunter.
BTW that looks like a great rifle.


http://www.thebuckskinner.com/omega.html

Thanks and I'll get back and pic your brain some more if that's alright.
You guys take care and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
BW

 

[arcticap]

Thanks for the illuminating info. about the really unique breech plug design. There's been conversions for small and large rifle primers for sidelocks for a long time, but this .25 acp case is something new to me.
It's been acknowledged that the #209 primers were somewhat overpowered and had drawbacks, and the industry is making some less powerful #209's now. And that's one reason why I'm glad that I stuck with the smaller original #11 primers, they're cheaper too.
Shooting a .45 bullet in his .50 refers to the size of the bullet that will fit into the .50 caliber plastic sabot that he was using.
The "common" .50 caliber plastic sabots are designed to either shoot a .44 magnum bullet (.427 -.430), or a .45-70 caliber type bullet (.450 - .451). So when he says he's shooting a .45 caliber bullet out of a .50 caliber rifle, he referring to the .50 caliber plastic sabot/.45 caliber bullet combination that he's loading in his rifle.
The main problem with muzzle loading in general is how much time needs to be spent cleaning the powder residue from the gun after a shooting session. I think that's why the new Savage smokeless powder ML rifles are so appealing, it saves people the time that would otherwise be spent cleaning the rifle. Smokeless powder and some styles of muzzle loaders/scopes aren't legal for ML hunting in every state, but the Savage smokeless muzzle loading rifle can also be shot with regular BP & substitute powders too.

 

[Slide45]

Thanks to all

Thanks on the info. Well I did it, I bought the TC Encore SS 50. She looks good, I have been tinkering around with it. I also put the ez tip extractor on it. Has anyone has experimented with the new flex stocks and do they make a difference. Mine came with a gray lam, with a crush but pad. let me know.
Articap what did you think about the Dead Center bullets ? I will send some pics but I haven't figured it out since I don't have a host URL. I guess I'll need to resize the image down in Photo shop.
BW

 

[arcticap]

Congratulations!
I've never shot them, but someone else reported that the Dead Centers shot well in another rifle model with 85 grains of 777.

Here's an interesting Encore range report from THR's sister forum, but Pyrodex is a corrosive powder:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229959&highlight=encore

You can also upload directly to this site by going to the bottom of your posting page and clicking on the "manage attachments" tab located under "additional options". Then you can browse your computer to upload photos up to certain file sizes.

 

[gibby]

In Sync

I actually have used both, traditional and inline. My traditional left hand sidelock was a Cabela's 50 cal with open sights. I paid a $100 for this gun as a kit that was never put together. It's been the most accurate 150 yard muzzleloader that I have shot using 90 grains and the buffalo ballettes. It's cheap to shoot and I have won several trophy's and shook a lot of hands shooting this gun. Someone saw me splitting lead balls on the sharp edge of a ax at 50 yards and decided to trade me his .380 Walther PPKS for it.

My other gun is an Encore with the 209 primer. The primer extractor is nice because it just swings out of the way for the breech plug to be removed for easy cleaning. It's accurate but don't know if it is as accurate as my Cabelas was. I really think this is soley because the Cabelas was my soal mate and it was simply shot all the time. I knew exactly the powder charge to use and bullet and it wasn't until the third shot that it was dead on at 150 yards. I'm now approaching 50 and simply don't have the time or place to shoot almost everyday. I really think almost any gun is accurate at some point, once the powder charge, bullet, and the shooter are in sync.