Need some help with 18th Century weapons cleaning gear

[Avenger29]

I'm a ranger for the Nat'l Park Service, and I have been placed in charge of our 18th century weapons inventory. My job is to clean and maintain each and every weapon we have...we have about 17 flintlock muskets (16 of which are "Brown Bess" variants), an "English Fowler" and a .50 caliber Pennsylvania rifle (made by Pedersoli). Just to make you drool, I'm also in charge of a 3 lb "Grasshopper" cannon (brass barrel). Unfortunately, I don't get to shoot any of these as I am not blackpowder safety certified (yet). The previous caretaker of the weapons fired them and didn't clean them, so some of them are a bit rusty, while we have brand new ones that have never been fired.

We need some cleaning gear, and I have no idea of what to get. These rifles are fired with black powder loads only- no ball. We also need a good preservative grease (and RIG grease is no longer made).

What do ya'll suggest we obtain in the way of cleaning gear. I've only got experience with modern weapons.

 

[Hikingman]

Rig Universal Grease

There's a couple of containers of Rig Universal Grease on ebay at the moment with combined shipping, and a higher price than I'm used to...

 

[Avenger29]

We can't requisition from ebay.

 

[mykeal]

Ballistol for both cleaning and short term preserving. For long term storage almost any grease will do, even petroleum based greases, assuming you'll do a heavy duty cleanup in the spring.

For the rust problem I' use a tight bore cleaning jag wrapped with 0000 steel wool, saturated in a rust remover such as Kroil. Once the rust is removed, wash thoroughly with hot water and dish detergent, then rinse in warm water, dry thoroughly (with compressed air if possible, but dry cotton patches if not) and then coat the bore with the Ballistol or other mineral oil based bp solvent (Butch's Bore Shine, Hoppe's No. 9 Plus, T/C 17 or 13, etc.).

 

[Pancho]

I 2nd mykeal's suggestion. Ballistol mixed with water for cleaning and used straight for preservation.
As for bringing back the ones that were mistreated by your predecessor I'd follow mykeal's directions and I'd also consider using a liberal flush with rubbing alcohol after rinsing with hot water.

 

[kBob]

This may sound like a weird suggestion, but have you considered contacting a local NRA or NMLA afiliated club?

Perhaps if you told us what National Park you work at someone here might know who would be a good contact in your area or perhaps even volunteer to come help you and show you techneques for restoring the damaged gear and how to use what cleaning supplies.

Who knows?

-Bob Hollingsworth

 

[Avenger29]

Perhaps if you told us what National Park you work at someone here might know who would be a good contact in your area or perhaps even volunteer to come help you and show you techneques for restoring the damaged gear and how to use what cleaning supplies.

I'd like to tell ya'll that, but I'm trying to keep my actual name separate from my screenname as much as possible.

Trust me, I think that with some suggestions I can take care of this on my own. I've only got to really worry about 4 neglected pieces, the rest are in good shape. I will put in a requisition for some Ballistol in quantity and some other stuff.

 

[jack404]

Avenger

my worry is that despite the good advice given that this is going to go badly

firstly check the varnish or sealant on the wood

if this is bad rub some candle wax on it as a start

get the woodwork seen to by a pro 200 yer old wood needs experts

Alcohol will dry wood like you would not beleive and older the wood the more prone it is to get rot in it if it gets dryed by alcohol.. troubles

but for the metal companants the filks is giving you the "good oil"

if you wish a home brew cleaner and storage solution

try this


in a largish bucket mix 1 cup kerosene 1/2 cup parrafin oil ( not wax)
1/2 cup alcohol and add a table spoon or two of bleach

use this to clean the arms


to preserve

1/2 cup parrafin oil 3 cups mobilene No 2 grease and enough kerosene to make the mix runny

this will make the grease thin enough that it can be applyed with a brush
but thick enough it stays behind

the kero and parrafin will evaporate somewhat but the grease and part of the kero and parrafin will stay stable and protect for years

also none of these companants will effect the wood or the brass work or any inlay they may have

hope this helps

and nice to see folks looking after history, good onya Avenger

cheers

jack

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well I am in Maryland, half way between Baltimore (Ft McHenry) and Ft Fred in Big Pool MD. Need help cleaning them send me a private message if I am close to you. I will go to any site in Maryland plus I will go to Valley Forge, or Jamestown, Yorktown, or Col Williamsburg if you need (plus other areas). I am experienced in muskets and the artillery piece you mentioned. Any other assisstance you need feel free to privately post to me.

YOHS

LD

 

[Avenger29]

We are not talking about actual period muskets. These are all replicas. We've only got one actual 18th century musket and one actual 18th century pistol, and both are safely under glass.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes I understood you. If they are neglected on the outside are they not neglected on the inside? So if you were near me, I would be happy to schlep up your way with some tools to help you overhaul your replica pieces.

LD

 

[Macmac]

If new hampshire is closer I could help too.... I can run to NY, Mass, assuming you are not in Maine or Vt.

There are little details that could be hard to explain in text. I have more or less all the guns you mention, just less Bess's and a grass hopper too.

2 tools I can't live with out are a worm a real one which I can use all sorts of patches, rags, and frayed manillia rope ends to make mops with, and hickory wiping stick with one end having a brass fitting in 8-32 and the other in 10-32, so I can use nearly any tool there is as factory made.

I would reccomend breech face scrapers for each size bore as well.

The grass hopper is going to be unique unto itself. It will neeed a broomstick mounted worm, and a wool sheep hide wrap on the other end of the broom stick. It will require a breech face scraper too.

If you can't use us, then go to another part even if it is a state part like Ft Ticonderoga, Ft Niagra, or Ft Oswego (all in NY) and get someone who does this, if you can. There are all sorts of ways, chems and no chems ways to clean these and care for the wood and the metal.

LD someone incorrectly came to the idea these guns were 200 years old..

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well you can "'fudge" the sheep wool by using a very shaggy, natural paint roller appied lengthwise to the end of shovel handle For cleaning only, that is, not during historic demos

See it sorta sounds like Accokeek or Ft. McHenry as my old unit sold their grasshopper to a group in Maryland a few years ago, and the long time guy who ran Accokeek retired recently...., so I thought you might be close to me and would like a hand. If it is our old grasshopper, I could fill you in on some of the history of the piece, and the fact that it was magnafluxed several years back to ensure no air pockets in the casting as it was upgraded to fire live, when all it had been used for was blanks.

LD

 

[4v50 Gary]

If you're going to preserve those weapons, use Rennaisance Wax. Developed by the British Museum, it's microcystelline, PH neutral and is used by museums worldwide.

Now, if they're shooters, use something else.

My guess is that Avenger is at Morristown, NJ or even Saratoga. I don't think the George Rogers Clark Monument in Vincennes, Cowpens, King's Mountain, Fort 96 or Yorktown Colonial Park would have that many guns. Congratulations on having a fun job. I wish I was there.

 

[fmilice]

Murphy's for cleaning

Avenger

I hope the barrel of your grasshopper is bronze or sleeved (brass is brittle).

Ballistol is great stuff, but I prefer Murphy's Oil Soap and HOT water.

Birchwood Casey makes a great product called Sheath that leaves a very thin invisible protective film on the metal. It's almost like a varnish, but even a fingernail can chip it off.

Also, for making sponges, some of our gunners use those auto wash mitts for the sheepskins, or a lot of fabric stores have the fake sheepskin by the yard. 1 yard should keep you in sponges for years, unless you're like me and forget where you put the stuff.

Thanks for mentioning safety school, reminded me that my certification is up this month.

Gettin' paid to mess with black powder weapons, I'm jealous.

Stay safe. Get a Saint Barbara medal (It can't hurt).

Cap'n Ned

Milice de Ste. Famille
Pays de Illinois
Nouvelle France

 

[Macmac]

LD, I don't know where your grass hopper wandered off too, mine is brand new to me. It was cast from a recent find of an original discovered in Canada.

Recent to me means I came on it at Ft Ti in about 2004. I bought it with a white pine garrison mount with the same wood for wheels.. Maybe that makes it a navy mount. I am in the process still.... to convert that pine to red oak because I have no access to white oak, but the magic is working yet.

When all is said and done I hope to have a English tobbogan mount, a field carriage mount and a wall/ stump yoke, that "Y" shape held with rings so it can break down and all lay in the bottom of a canoe.

Now I'ld like to mount it in the canoe, but I don't think that idea would 'float'

The only fudge I like is chocolate.... The canoe has cotton canvas for a sail because I can't get my grubby mitts on any real Irish Linen for it...

I hunted for 6 years to get real hemp. I hunted from Key West to Newfoundland. Everyone and their brother knew where real hemp was, and once I actually came on a piece 6 feet long!

All the rest was manillia... or worse sisial.... Then one day I came on a 440 meter roll of the real thing....

During this search I came on a old new stock of real Royal British Navy 'Stockholm Tarred' long strand mannilia made in 1964 in British Standard size which is apx 5/8" diameter in SAE un-opened! I love the smell of that line...

LD if you do Easterns, Ft Fredneck and Original Nor' Eastern's we may have met... I know a mule skinner near you named Jim.. ain't seen him around in a while though.

I lived in the Burkitsville area for a while too, and got to be in 2 Civil War events by invite. All I owned was a Mt Man hat I could crush to be more like Southern Calvery and a 1860 colt clone. Every other item I used was on a loan, except my horse. They had me be one of Moseby's Boy's and I was pretty good at it.. I got some Union guys very upset a bit to early in the morning, but that tail is for another time.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

We probably have indeed. My folks live in Brunswick. I've been to all those events you mentioned.

I was just wondering as Avenger29 might like a hand, and as I said, it sounded like some of the sites close to me.

LD

 

[Macmac]

LD I can't guess where Avenger29 might be. Probably between us.. Or maybe south of you...

My offer was 'if' I happened to be closer.. I believe he needs a hand to get started myself.

Other wise things may go un-noticed. I have built kits, and one pistol from scratch, making the lock, by copying a siler, making the barrel from solid brass round stock, and making the wood stock from a 16 foot long plank.

In the units i go with I have served as safety officer, and armor making field repairs on what ever comes up, and there isn't much I can't fix in the field either.

The worst one was a Bess main spring that sheared at the hook where it engages the sear.

I stuck one axe in a stump by a camp fire (anivil), and wrapped the spring in mud and leather, and forged the hook end out longer to shape with another axe, and didn't loose the temper...

I am not interested in detail cleaning 16 muskets and a couple of rifles all the time, but helping once so the guy who has the task can be comfortable there after is no problem.

He ain't talkin!

 

[Smokin_Gun]

You could make a lite paste out of Corn Oil and Beeswax to lube and protect in an O' Natural Way... or Tallow. Even Corn Oil would do it on metal or wood.
Jus' a thought I had...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I stuck one axe in a stump by a camp fire (anivil), and wrapped the spring in mud and leather, and forged the hook end out longer to shape with another axe, and didn't loose the temper...

BRILLIANT ! <Doing best Guiness Stout commericial immitation>

A heat-sink and an axe head! Thanks, I will probably use that in May. I will be doing armorer services at the BB event at Jerusalem Mill.

LD

 

[Macmac]

I just drained a swamp too, only a week ago, but it was simple practice as no gators live in it... yet.

I would assume it will take a little more than Global Warming to get gators into New Hampster...

I am always asking what is next best. Since my forge was home, and I didn't have and 6 inch stove pipe to make a sand forge, which is no more than some pipe about 6 to 8 feet tall leaning on a ladder, or a y stick to hold it, I used my fancysmancy magic wand of a blow pipe to start kindling faster..

This tool keeps my fuzzy face off the coals, or out of smoke.

All it is, is hobby store brass tubing 3 sections long with a copper jiggle cone (bag trim cones) stuffed in the working end.

I have a bone mouth piece but a big wooden bead will do.

Rake up a few lumps of red oak coals in a pile and you can do small forging in camp..

I never had one of the spike in a stump mini anvils yet, but sure would like to come by one as packable sometime.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Back to the OP....

You need a cleaning rod with a jag of appropriate size. This will be different for each caliber of gun. Try Dixie Gun Works or Track of the Wolf. Also, I would recommend getting a flintlock cleaning tube...it's a C-clamp with a length of plastic tubing that you clamp onto the barrel - you put the tubing into a bucket of water.

The best cleaner I've run into is Simple Green. Dilute by about 75%. Clean. Dry. Use Ballistol as a lube.