Need some schoolin' on .45 Colt

[jgh4445]

Too often, I think, we try to make our guns hotter, better, bigger faster, more powerful. I've been guilty of it too. I've found the easy, safe and smart way is to buy the gun we are trying to make ours into. 45LC ain't a 44 mag, never will be. I shoot two 45 SAA's and a 625 MT gun that shoots 45 LC AND ACP. I use the 255 KT bullet with that big 'ol meplat made out of either straight wheel weights or some softer alloy if I want. At an average of 875-890 fps it will kill any critter I'm likely to encounter. The deer doesn't complain that the bullet that hit him wasn't going 1200 fps, he just dies. Just as quick and just as dead I might add. Got to go a long way to beat the old 45 just as it was designed.

 

[.338-06]

I'm trying to look critically at the difference between my two N frame guns. Does .023" in chamber size really make such a huge difference that one caliber's ability to safely handle pressure is cut in half? It's not like I haven't heard "The .45 Colt isn't a .44" before. I've also heard that a larger bore reduces pressure.

Oh, and the deer up here are big-they're called moose.

 

[Rule3]

I agree that there is no need to make a gun something it isn't. Which is why I do not push my SW M 25 Mt Gun.

That said a 45 Colt in a Ruger or SA Freedom Arms or similar, it can be pretty much a (454 Casull) which is why it is a great caliber
Corrected should be 44 Mag, my mistake, don't listen to me!

Would certainly like to snag one of these new Ruger 45 ACP/45 Colt

http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/specSheets/5032.html

 

[TimSr]

That said a 45 Colt in a Ruger or SA Freedom Arms or similar, it can be pretty much a 454 Casull which is why it is a great caliber

The Ruger/Contender published loads are similar to 44 mag, but no where near 454 Casull levels.

 

[Rule3]

Granted, my mistake, 44Mag. The pressure on the 454 is a lot higher.

 

[CraigC]

Pressure on the .454 is double that of Ruger-only .45Colt loads.

The N-frame is not as strong as a Ruger and is really at its limit with the .44Mag. The S&W should be limited to loads not exceeding the pressure of .45ACP.

 

[USSR]

The S&W should be limited to loads not exceeding the pressure of .45ACP.

+1. And since the S&W 25-2 is rated for .45 ACP+P ammo, that pressure level is 23k psi. With the right powder, you can drive hard cast 250-270gr SWC's up to 1100fps, which will put a world of hurt on whatever is on the receiving end. Oh, and don't expect to recover any bullets.

Don

 

[buck460XVR]

Anyway, i don't see any need to bash those who want hot 45c power, as long as they have the equipment to handle it. As long as the pistol in question is rated for the big loads, and if people want to shoot them, why not? Save the mandates & dogmatism for politics.

No mandates or dogmatism....simply, the OP(the pistol in question) does not have the equipment to handle it.

 

[gamestalker]

I wouldn't think the M25 would just go to pieces with "Ruger / Freedom" loads, but I sure wouldn't pick those tables to work from if I was loading for that firearm. Plain and simple, those would be the wrong loads, for that gun.

GS

 

[BigBore45]

I'm trying to look critically at the difference between my two N frame guns. Does .023" in chamber size really make such a huge difference that one caliber's ability to safely handle pressure is cut in half? It's not like I haven't heard "The .45 Colt isn't a .44" before. I've also heard that a larger bore reduces pressure.

Oh, and the deer up here are big-they're called moose.

They might use a special heat treat on the 44 mag cylinder............ like ruger does on there blackhawk/redhawks

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Besides the gun the 45 colt brass was not designed for the same pressure as the 44 mag. In this day in time I see no reason to push the 45 colt to magnum performance, that has been done and that is why the 454 exists.

 

[Jim Watson]

Strange Anecdote

Had a guy here who, for some reason, always loaded his .44 Magnum down to hardly more than Special level, but routinely loaded his .45 Colt Ruger to the firewall.
So he wanted to go handgun hunting for wild boar (This back when it was a challenge, not pest elimination.) with his overloaded .45. But the guide had a Magnum - only rule for pistols and would not listen to the "Ruger - Only" propaganda. So our Nimrod sets out with his underloaded .44. That did not get him a hog and darned near got him gored.

 

[.338-06]

Besides the gun the 45 colt brass was not designed for the same pressure as the 44 mag. In this day in time I see no reason to push the 45 colt to magnum performance, that has been done and that is why the 454 exists.

Dude, really?

 

[CraigC]

I wouldn't think the M25 would just go to pieces with "Ruger / Freedom" loads...

It would just shake itself loose.

.... like ruger does on there blackhawk/redhawks

Wrong.

Besides the gun the 45 colt brass was not designed for the same pressure as the 44 mag. In this day in time I see no reason to push the 45 colt to magnum performance, that has been done and that is why the 454 exists.

There's nothing wrong with .45Colt brass. It routinely gets loaded to 55,000psi custom five-shot .45's.

 

[BigBore45]

Quote:
.... like ruger does on there blackhawk/redhawks

Wrong.

maybe it is wrong, the fame is stronger for sure, but who really knows what they do to the cylinder to make it take 35K+ psi. i know any other 6 shot cylinder will not take it.



the 45 colt brass being weak is B.S. the old balloon style brass was weak. not any new brass. it all has been beef'ed up and that is why the new cases will not hold the original load of BP at 40 grains. the 454 Casull was developed using 45 colt brass and was only changed to avoid its chambering in 45LC guns.


But to the O.P.: Your gun is a 20K pressure gun. you can get enough out of that pressure to take down any game animal in north America humanly. They ruger only loads do run with or surpass the .44mag with heavy bullets the limit on the "out doing" is around 280 grain bullets.

I do not advise anyone to load ruger only loads and shoot them, been there done that, just shot a few yesterday. But it was only with alot of research that i am able to do this safely. In all reality the .45 colt is mostly loaded to the high levels because it is one of Americas Cartridges and is still able to keep up with one of the most powerful "NEW" cartridges of today. That is a neat thing to do and proves its place with its time tested Longevity in the shooting world.

 

[USSR]

Besides the gun the 45 colt brass was not designed for the same pressure as the 44 mag.

I hope you're not referring to balloon head construction. There hasn't been a balloon head construction .45 Colt case made since WW2. Current .45 Colt brass is plenty strong enough to handle .44 Magnum pressure levels. The weakness with any .45 Colt is always associated with the firearm being used.

Don

 

[GooseGestapo]

I started out with the .45colt 10yrs ago. I've shot .44mag and .45acp for decades. I won a Winchester M94 "Legacy" (24"bbl) in a pistol match and started shooting loading for it. Since, I've owned a Ruger 5.5" Redhawk, 4.6" Blackhawk, 5.5" New Model Blackhawk, and finally, a S&W 625 Mountain Gun.
I've killed a number of deer with the .45. My two favorite loads are 8.2 gr of Universal over a Lee 255rfn, and 9.8gr of LongShot over the RCBS 270gr SAA SWC. I've not killed a deer with the 270, but several of the 255's stem to stern on white tails.
I shot a bit of HOT loads through the Redhawk and Winchester. 310gr FNGC over 20.0gr of 2400 is pretty thrilling! No need to go there though. The 20,000 psi loads are more than enough.
Most enjoyment I've had lately was showing off with a Webley MkII and some 255's over 4.0 gr Bullseye loaded in moon clips. You really don't want to catch one of those! Mouse farts with a punch!

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I hope you're not referring to balloon head construction. There hasn't been a balloon head construction .45 Colt case made since WW2. Current .45 Colt brass is plenty strong enough to handle .44 Magnum pressure levels. The weakness with any .45 Colt is always associated with the firearm being used.

Yep.
It's not 1873 anymore.

 

[Jim Watson]

Balloon head would be an improvement over the inside primed folded head of the original ammo or the later folded head Boxer primed.
A lot of people don't realize that the balloon head or semi-balloon head case, headstamped by UMC with "SH" for Solid Head, meaning the rim was solid, was a great advance at the time.