I have a neighbor that I sometimes deer hunt with - the problem is he makes bad shots on deer. In the two years I've hunted with him he shot the leg off a deer (30 yd shot) and gut shot another one twice (at about 25 yds). He's a crack shot at the range, both from the bench and standing. He gut shot the deer this weekend and it was a real mess to dress, a lot of the meat was ruined. Anyone got any suggestions for someone who shoots really good at the range and often chokes on shots at game?
Need some suggestions...buck fever
- Thread starter rick_reno
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Next time he gut-shoots a deer, go sucker-kick him in the gut as hard as you can.....
JUST KIDDING ! ! ! ! ! NOT A REALISTIC SUGGESTION ! ! ! !
Actually, other that being out in the hunting areas, I don't really know of a solution to "Buck Fever." I have seen guys shuck all the ammo out of pump shotguns and lever rifles without ever mashing the trigger, 1 guy I hunted with ONCE that got so excited at the sight of a really big buck that he dropped his Marlin lever gun out of the stand (muzzle-first into the mud), kicked his chair off the platform, and then while trying to climb down, he jumped from the second step down. End of the hunt, idjit broke his ankle from the jump.
JUST KIDDING ! ! ! ! ! NOT A REALISTIC SUGGESTION ! ! ! !
Actually, other that being out in the hunting areas, I don't really know of a solution to "Buck Fever." I have seen guys shuck all the ammo out of pump shotguns and lever rifles without ever mashing the trigger, 1 guy I hunted with ONCE that got so excited at the sight of a really big buck that he dropped his Marlin lever gun out of the stand (muzzle-first into the mud), kicked his chair off the platform, and then while trying to climb down, he jumped from the second step down. End of the hunt, idjit broke his ankle from the jump.
TrapperReady
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What type of sighting system is he using? I've got a good friend who used to use iron sights all the time, but had too many misses and bad shots. He admitted that he would end up looking at the rack while he was trying to make the shot.
He has since switched to a 1x scope on the same gun and doesn't have the problem any more. Looking through the scope and focusing on the crosshairs really makes him concentrate on where the shot is going to go.
Anyway, that worked for him.
He has since switched to a 1x scope on the same gun and doesn't have the problem any more. Looking through the scope and focusing on the crosshairs really makes him concentrate on where the shot is going to go.
Anyway, that worked for him.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
He needs to spend more time just seeing deer. Going out more often in deer country, and not worrying about hunting. He needs to get rid of a bunch of the "Oh, wow!" side of his emotions. The more you're around deer, the less likelihood of Buck Fever. You get used to seeing them, watching what they do and all that sort of stuff.
He oughta go out a time or two without his rifle, right now. Then, get into deer country on weekends during the spring, summer and fall. No big deal; just one day a month will help...
For right now, he oughta pick out a specific place on a deer to hit. Sounds like he's just aiming "somewhere in the brown". If the deer's facing him, go for the white spot. Otherwise, make him think of three inches up from the bottom, right behind (nearly touching) the foreleg. Or the ear hole, fer cryin' out loud.
Art
He oughta go out a time or two without his rifle, right now. Then, get into deer country on weekends during the spring, summer and fall. No big deal; just one day a month will help...
For right now, he oughta pick out a specific place on a deer to hit. Sounds like he's just aiming "somewhere in the brown". If the deer's facing him, go for the white spot. Otherwise, make him think of three inches up from the bottom, right behind (nearly touching) the foreleg. Or the ear hole, fer cryin' out loud.
Art
nygunguy
Member
Make him target practice on a deer target. You can get the cardboard deer silhouettes at most Kmarts or Walmarts in here NY. Or just draw a reasonable deer on a piece of paper.
He may be aiming at the deer instead of an appropriate spot on the deer. A little bit of practice at zeroing in on a life-like image might do the trick. You can use a .22 or BB gun because the trick is to get him to adjust his aim point.
He may be aiming at the deer instead of an appropriate spot on the deer. A little bit of practice at zeroing in on a life-like image might do the trick. You can use a .22 or BB gun because the trick is to get him to adjust his aim point.
ojibweindian
Member
I use visualization techniques. Have your friend imagine putting the crosshairs on a big buck and pulling the trigger. I do this a lot when dry firing in my "man shack".
Saw several deer last year and never got the shakes. Was somewhat disappointed, however, because all I saw were either does, or bucks too small to pull the trigger on.
Saw several deer last year and never got the shakes. Was somewhat disappointed, however, because all I saw were either does, or bucks too small to pull the trigger on.
TrapperReady said:
The first one he was using a scope, he's sold that gun and is now using a peep sight on a Win. M94. The other day when we were out he mentioned with a scope the gun bounces all over the place, I lent him my scoped '06 when we were out (I already had my deer in the back of my truck) - after he complained that the deer he was seeing were too far away for his 30-30.
Newt
Member
I'm gonna go with Art on this one. The 2nd and 3rd deer I ever saw from my stand I got nervous and missed them. I've killed the last 3 I've shot at with one shot (2 with smoke pole). It just takes time and getting used to being around deer before you're comfortable shooting at one. I still get the "jitters", but now it's mostly after I shoot.
Maybe you could set with him to help keep him calm. Most people set with their young'uns when they're just getting started. He's no different, new hunter, just a little older than most when he got started.
Maybe you could set with him to help keep him calm. Most people set with their young'uns when they're just getting started. He's no different, new hunter, just a little older than most when he got started.
As usual, I'm in complete agreement with Art.
I can remember times in the past where I had hunted hard and not seen a deer for some time, only to get really flustered about finally getting to see my quarry! "A deer! A real, live, honest-to-Gawd deer! Holy smoke! Now I better shoot quick!" Heh.
The best answer is Art's desensitization concept. Get the man used to the sight of the critters. Best is to get out among 'em when not actually actively hunting, ahead of time. But life is imperfect, and some folk can't get out to the hunting fields more often than the week or so that they take off in the fall. So what to do?
Well, nygunguy has an excellent tip with the deer targets idea. This works for two reasons: it trains the hunter to practice aiming for the kill zone and not just "shoot it in the deer," and it puts a picture of a deer in front of the hunter, so that he can get used to it. Heck, I've even been known to cut out cardboard cutouts of a deer, so that I've got a free-standing target that gives sort of a 3D effect. There's a tremendous difference between shooting at an inanimate high-definition target on paper and a low-contrast, mostly-camouflaged deer, even at close range.
Finally, there are two other things that the hunter can practice at the range: field positions (NOT from the bench) and shooting under pressure. If it's at all feasible, have him, when he checks his targets, run at a dead sprint to the target stands, mark the shots with tape, and sprint back to the firing line and quick fire a 3-shot group from field position while huffing and puffing. Even better if you run along behind him, yelling at him to hurry up. This will humble a LOT of us, you can be sure. Get him to practice slowing his breath and calm down enough to make a decent hit. If he finds that it takes him 20 seconds to calm down enough to make a 6" group from 50 yards from a sitting position on a deer target, then he's learned something pretty valuable. If he learns that he simply can't hold 3 shots on a 10" circle on a deer target at 100 yards after this excercise even after a minute of settling down, then he's learned that he'll need to pass up that shot and move up.
Personal story:
My first long shot that I ever made on a deer (300+ yards) was made on the last day of a deer season in which I had hunted 9 separate days without seeing a thing. I had literally not laid eyes on a deer the entire season, except at night while driving back. Lots of sign, but no deer. When I finally found a group of them in the large field that I went to early that morning, I got entirely too excited-- I was young, and also felt like I had a lot invested in this one last chance. I took a sighting on the big buck out there, and watched my crosshairs bounce feverishly to the lub-dub of my heart as I struggled to hold them on him at almost a quarter mile away. I stalked out in the field in a belly crawl and closed about 100 yards before I realized that the buck was going to leave the open field for the cover of brush soon. I took a careful rest across my backpack, knocked off the safety... and almost blew it entirely. If I had shot then, I would have at best missed that buck, and at worst wounded it. I stopped, took a couple of deep breaths, let 'em out, and relaxed. Far better to let the buck go than to blow the shot. I tried to sight again a few seconds later, and found that the cross-hairs really had settled down a lot. As the deer started to leave the field, I made the shot, and though it ran, I knew --knew-- that the shot was good. [And so it was.] Over the years, I've occasionally had to pass up on a shot when I knew I wasn't settled enough for it. [shrug] Beats hell out of wounding it.
I can remember times in the past where I had hunted hard and not seen a deer for some time, only to get really flustered about finally getting to see my quarry! "A deer! A real, live, honest-to-Gawd deer! Holy smoke! Now I better shoot quick!" Heh.
The best answer is Art's desensitization concept. Get the man used to the sight of the critters. Best is to get out among 'em when not actually actively hunting, ahead of time. But life is imperfect, and some folk can't get out to the hunting fields more often than the week or so that they take off in the fall. So what to do?
Well, nygunguy has an excellent tip with the deer targets idea. This works for two reasons: it trains the hunter to practice aiming for the kill zone and not just "shoot it in the deer," and it puts a picture of a deer in front of the hunter, so that he can get used to it. Heck, I've even been known to cut out cardboard cutouts of a deer, so that I've got a free-standing target that gives sort of a 3D effect. There's a tremendous difference between shooting at an inanimate high-definition target on paper and a low-contrast, mostly-camouflaged deer, even at close range.
Finally, there are two other things that the hunter can practice at the range: field positions (NOT from the bench) and shooting under pressure. If it's at all feasible, have him, when he checks his targets, run at a dead sprint to the target stands, mark the shots with tape, and sprint back to the firing line and quick fire a 3-shot group from field position while huffing and puffing. Even better if you run along behind him, yelling at him to hurry up. This will humble a LOT of us, you can be sure. Get him to practice slowing his breath and calm down enough to make a decent hit. If he finds that it takes him 20 seconds to calm down enough to make a 6" group from 50 yards from a sitting position on a deer target, then he's learned something pretty valuable. If he learns that he simply can't hold 3 shots on a 10" circle on a deer target at 100 yards after this excercise even after a minute of settling down, then he's learned that he'll need to pass up that shot and move up.
Personal story:
My first long shot that I ever made on a deer (300+ yards) was made on the last day of a deer season in which I had hunted 9 separate days without seeing a thing. I had literally not laid eyes on a deer the entire season, except at night while driving back. Lots of sign, but no deer. When I finally found a group of them in the large field that I went to early that morning, I got entirely too excited-- I was young, and also felt like I had a lot invested in this one last chance. I took a sighting on the big buck out there, and watched my crosshairs bounce feverishly to the lub-dub of my heart as I struggled to hold them on him at almost a quarter mile away. I stalked out in the field in a belly crawl and closed about 100 yards before I realized that the buck was going to leave the open field for the cover of brush soon. I took a careful rest across my backpack, knocked off the safety... and almost blew it entirely. If I had shot then, I would have at best missed that buck, and at worst wounded it. I stopped, took a couple of deep breaths, let 'em out, and relaxed. Far better to let the buck go than to blow the shot. I tried to sight again a few seconds later, and found that the cross-hairs really had settled down a lot. As the deer started to leave the field, I made the shot, and though it ran, I knew --knew-- that the shot was good. [And so it was.] Over the years, I've occasionally had to pass up on a shot when I knew I wasn't settled enough for it. [shrug] Beats hell out of wounding it.
WhiteKnight
Member
Matt G, could you elaborate a little more? What distance did the shot turn out to be? What rifle/cartridge were you using? How was terminal performance and how big was the deer?
Inquiring minds want to know..
Inquiring minds want to know..
agree w/ art... have your friend spend more time around deer.
the next thing is what i do, though the deer silhouette idea is as practical... quit shooting at targets w/ bullseyes, or aiming points, or whatever. get used to trying to put your shot right there without using an aiming point.
the closer deer season gets, the less i shoot target paper, and the more i shoot paper plates, pumpkins, tomatoes, eggs, etc.
the next thing is what i do, though the deer silhouette idea is as practical... quit shooting at targets w/ bullseyes, or aiming points, or whatever. get used to trying to put your shot right there without using an aiming point.
the closer deer season gets, the less i shoot target paper, and the more i shoot paper plates, pumpkins, tomatoes, eggs, etc.
TangSafetyM77
Member
Ahh...Buck Fever
I am 30 years old and have been hunting whitetails since I was 7. I still get excited when I see a nice buck. In fact, one thing we often forget is that it's that adrenaline, or "juice" that keeps us coming back year after year. If you don't get excited at the sight of a big buck, you shouldn't be hunting anymore.
I was notorious for making bad shots on deer in my teens and early 20's. My Dad even developed a habit for calling it my "signature shot" across the deer's back. Spine shots ususally will drop them where they stand, but I would always ruin about half the backstrap in the process.
What finally cured me was a combination of 3 things:
1. Having to clean so many gut-shot or poorly-shot deer over the years. Trying to keep your breakfast down while gutting a gut-shot deer does start to wear on you after awhile.
2. Bench time. I finally got angry enough with myself and just became disciplined about firing my rifle more during the off-season. I will put 100 rounds a year through my 270 during the summer and early fall.
3. Deer exposure. We were on a South Texas lease for 2 years and I had the opportunity to view some amazing bucks during that time. My Dad would not let me shoot a 165 class 12 point because he was only 3.5 years old. I watched that deer several times, and you do get used to it.
This past Saturday, (Texas opener) I was in my blind watching a couple of nice bucks feeding. When the big bruiser stepped out, I got my gun up and started shaking a little bit once I looked through my scope at his chest. I actually remember smiling, acknowledging the "juice" and taking my cheek off the stock, and staring down at the floor for a bit and taking some deep breaths. He is at the processor now.
I am 30 years old and have been hunting whitetails since I was 7. I still get excited when I see a nice buck. In fact, one thing we often forget is that it's that adrenaline, or "juice" that keeps us coming back year after year. If you don't get excited at the sight of a big buck, you shouldn't be hunting anymore.
I was notorious for making bad shots on deer in my teens and early 20's. My Dad even developed a habit for calling it my "signature shot" across the deer's back. Spine shots ususally will drop them where they stand, but I would always ruin about half the backstrap in the process.
What finally cured me was a combination of 3 things:
1. Having to clean so many gut-shot or poorly-shot deer over the years. Trying to keep your breakfast down while gutting a gut-shot deer does start to wear on you after awhile.
2. Bench time. I finally got angry enough with myself and just became disciplined about firing my rifle more during the off-season. I will put 100 rounds a year through my 270 during the summer and early fall.
3. Deer exposure. We were on a South Texas lease for 2 years and I had the opportunity to view some amazing bucks during that time. My Dad would not let me shoot a 165 class 12 point because he was only 3.5 years old. I watched that deer several times, and you do get used to it.
This past Saturday, (Texas opener) I was in my blind watching a couple of nice bucks feeding. When the big bruiser stepped out, I got my gun up and started shaking a little bit once I looked through my scope at his chest. I actually remember smiling, acknowledging the "juice" and taking my cheek off the stock, and staring down at the floor for a bit and taking some deep breaths. He is at the processor now.
Well, you asked...
...so her's the details, WhiteKnight. You really want to know? Okay: Here's a not-to-scale picture. Pasture was a 1 section (640 acre) winter wheat field with about 1 to 2" of seedlings coming up. Pasture was surrounded by dense mesquite brush. I went along fence to the gate, and crept past the gate and then belly-crawled along the tracks that were sometimes used as a "road" along the fence inside the field. About a hundred yards in, I realized my buck was leaving the field, as all the does already had. Wind was about 7 mph from my right, and buck was walking left to right. I judged the distance at about 300 yards. Knew that my load of a 100g Sierra Spitzer at about 2900, which I had sighted at 3" high at 100 yards, would hit about 7.5" low at 300 yards. I held what I judged to be that much higher, say, on the withers, of the buck. I should have also led him slightly, to account for the wind and his moving. The shot felt good, but he ran like there was nothing wrong with him. By the time I got another round chambered, he'd completed the run to the fence and jumped it, and disappeared from view into the scrub. I marked my spot with my backpack and went straight to where he'd been when I shot, and I paced off 300 of my long steps. (I'm 6'5".) No blood. I went perpendicular to the fence, and found no blood or sign of crossing. I got my hunting buddies together, and we crossed the fence and hunted the scrub for over half an hour without sign before coming back to the fence. My host went along the fence and found, roughly halfway closer to me, the spot where the buck had jumped the fence. It had never occured to me that the buck might run toward me while running out of the field, and in my haste to chamber a round again, the slight angle toward me was lost on me.
We found the buck piled up in a heap less than 50 yards from the fence. The shot had struck almost at the perfect height, but pretty far back. It penetrated the diaphragm, the liver, and part of a lung before leaving on the off-side. The hide had apparently been stretched in walking, and there was NO external blood at all. The 100 g spitzer left a nice exit hole of about 1/2 inch in the hide, but it was offset from the hole in the meat, so the blood stayed in. The buck's rack was assymetrical with 7 pts on one side and 4 on the other, and the teeth and body suggested about a 4 year old. Body was around 150 live, IIRC. Total run from shot was about 120 yds.
Rifle was an older Ruger M77 .257 Rbts semi-varminter weight 24" barrel with an old Weaver 3X9 variable scope over it.
Note: Pic NOT TO SCALE:
...so her's the details, WhiteKnight. You really want to know? Okay: Here's a not-to-scale picture. Pasture was a 1 section (640 acre) winter wheat field with about 1 to 2" of seedlings coming up. Pasture was surrounded by dense mesquite brush. I went along fence to the gate, and crept past the gate and then belly-crawled along the tracks that were sometimes used as a "road" along the fence inside the field. About a hundred yards in, I realized my buck was leaving the field, as all the does already had. Wind was about 7 mph from my right, and buck was walking left to right. I judged the distance at about 300 yards. Knew that my load of a 100g Sierra Spitzer at about 2900, which I had sighted at 3" high at 100 yards, would hit about 7.5" low at 300 yards. I held what I judged to be that much higher, say, on the withers, of the buck. I should have also led him slightly, to account for the wind and his moving. The shot felt good, but he ran like there was nothing wrong with him. By the time I got another round chambered, he'd completed the run to the fence and jumped it, and disappeared from view into the scrub. I marked my spot with my backpack and went straight to where he'd been when I shot, and I paced off 300 of my long steps. (I'm 6'5".) No blood. I went perpendicular to the fence, and found no blood or sign of crossing. I got my hunting buddies together, and we crossed the fence and hunted the scrub for over half an hour without sign before coming back to the fence. My host went along the fence and found, roughly halfway closer to me, the spot where the buck had jumped the fence. It had never occured to me that the buck might run toward me while running out of the field, and in my haste to chamber a round again, the slight angle toward me was lost on me.
We found the buck piled up in a heap less than 50 yards from the fence. The shot had struck almost at the perfect height, but pretty far back. It penetrated the diaphragm, the liver, and part of a lung before leaving on the off-side. The hide had apparently been stretched in walking, and there was NO external blood at all. The 100 g spitzer left a nice exit hole of about 1/2 inch in the hide, but it was offset from the hole in the meat, so the blood stayed in. The buck's rack was assymetrical with 7 pts on one side and 4 on the other, and the teeth and body suggested about a 4 year old. Body was around 150 live, IIRC. Total run from shot was about 120 yds.
Rifle was an older Ruger M77 .257 Rbts semi-varminter weight 24" barrel with an old Weaver 3X9 variable scope over it.
Note: Pic NOT TO SCALE:
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cracked butt
Member
What Art said.
Pick out a patch of fur or a very specific spot on the deer to aim at, not somewhere in the general vicinity of the vitals.
A few ideas that have already been mentioned:
1. Aim at a spot on a deer. line of a shoulder, tuft of hair, etc.
2. Practice shooting at deer targets.
3. Spend time observing deer (love to do this and video tape them)
4. Use a shooting rest. I will always shoot braced against a tree or useing a shooting stick. Even "at point blank range"
5. Use a single shot weapon or loaded with a single shot. I found that even a pump shotgun loaded with one slug makes folks who have buck fever concentrate on making that one shot count.
1. Aim at a spot on a deer. line of a shoulder, tuft of hair, etc.
2. Practice shooting at deer targets.
3. Spend time observing deer (love to do this and video tape them)
4. Use a shooting rest. I will always shoot braced against a tree or useing a shooting stick. Even "at point blank range"
5. Use a single shot weapon or loaded with a single shot. I found that even a pump shotgun loaded with one slug makes folks who have buck fever concentrate on making that one shot count.
Maybe he needs to practice more shooting offhand. You know better than I that the coyotes never come on your good side, deer are most likey at the wrong angle, and its hard to be patient waiting for an animal to drop its head so you can swing up.
rk
rk
Newt
Member
I'll also second what RandyB says. When I'm hunting with my smoke pole and I know I only have one shot, it seems like I concentrate just that much harder knowing that it will be the only shot I'll have. You may have to pull a Barney Fife on him and put one in the gun and one in his pocket...
sturmruger
Member
When I was still in high school I spent a lot of time bow hunting. I saw many, many deer but they were always at 40+ yards!! This really helped me learn to stay calm take deep quites breaths and most of all not to shake and get all rattled. I think Art is offering some wise advice have him get out and and see more deer maybe have him do some squirel hunting as well. Anything to get out and get his adrenaline going will help.
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