Need some thoughts on safe ammo storage

[mugsie]

I reload .. lots. In other words, I have oodles of ammo stored in my basement in multiple calibers. I also have thousands of primers and many pounds of powder in multiple one pound containers. All of it is on shelves.

Occasionally my mind wanders and I wonder what would happen if there were a fire. I've seen the video, and had ammo cook off in fires when I was over seas. I know there is minimal danger of being severely wounded, but the first round that cooks off within earshot of a responding fireman will result in a call going out to back off because there's ammunition in the basement and it's "firing"!

So, what suggestions do you have for storage? Location stored? Containers etc? The only thing I can come up with is another safe, but I don't want to pay thousands for another safe. Ideas? Actual experience? Had a fire? What happened?

All your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. (As I'm typing this I'm thinking, I'll store the ammo at my neighbors hose! Yup, that'll work!)

Thanks all....

 

[1911 guy]

Ammo cans. Lots of them.

I keep powder in the original cans, lids on tight. Primers get tossed into a plastic container, still in original boxes (so i know what type they are) and ammo gets put in the ammo cans. The .50 caliber cans are probably the most useful, but I do use a few 40 mm cans to store calibers I have a LOT of.

My basement has occasional moisture issues, and my storage system hasn't given me grief yet. I just make sure that everything is off the floor, containers are sealed and don't leave anything open between reloading sessions.

 

[medalguy]

Any well trained fire fighter will understand that loaded ammo does not present an undue hazard to him, and all he needs is a turnout coat to protect him from anything that might come flying his way. My friends who are fire fighters all understand there's a whole lot more danger in propane cylinders and gasoline cans, cans of lacquer thinner, acetone, toilet cleaner, and other hazardous household chemicals than loaded ammo.

The last thing you want to do is store any flammable or explosive in a strong box or container.

 

[Baron66]

For powder and primers, use 1" thick wood boxes as seen here (scroll down to photos): http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=385681

Also, I think nails were used instead of screws on purpose. Don't want a splinter bomb...

 

[lxd55]

try something like this....
http://store.interstateproducts.com...ble_Cabinets/Eagle-1947-Safety-Cabinets-45gal

 

[leadcounsel]

Big metal lockable truck style tool boxes. I've bought a few over the years for cheap second hand. You can stack various smaller containers inside them, and lock them. They weight hundreds of pounds when full - so it's hard for people to steal them.

If you are really paranoid, you could build a "box" out of fire-resistant sheetrock and put it around your ammo. Or you could simply add a layer of said sheet rock to your ammo-storage room, to reduce the risks.

 

[BSA1]

If you are really paranoid, you could build a "box" out of fire-resistant sheetrock and put it around your ammo. Or you could simply add a layer of said sheet rock to your ammo-storage room, to reduce the risks.

If I remember my commercial fire codes correctly two layers of 5/8" sheetrock is rated for 45 minutes of fire resistance.

 

[moxie]

1911guy nailed it in post #2. Perfect.

 

[we are not amused]

While storing ammunition in a military ammo box is very popular, if heated to the point that a round cooks off, they will almost certainly all go off together, making a rather large explosion.

To safely store ammunition, it should be in a non-sealed container, with air vents, or cardboard, wood or plastic construction.

Almost all of my ammunition is stored in the original packages, except for reloads, and the reloads are stored in plastic boxes.

Most of this ammunition is stored in large plastic containers, in the closet or in the basement.

I will admit to keeping some ammunition in a military .50 cal. ammo can, kept in the truck, behind the seat, but that is all.


Yes, the military ammunition boxes provide a lot of protection, but there is a reason the military stores them in ammunition bunkers, well away from inhabited spaces. They will explode, if heated to the point the ammunition contained within, starts to cook off.

The same goes for storing ammunition in a gun safe. All fine and dandy unless the safe gets hot enough to cook off the ammunition, then you have a bomb on your hands. The same goes for most "lockable" truck tool boxes.

Best advice! From a safety standpoint. Don't store ammunition in metal containers!

If you don't believe me, ( remember the old adage about free advice) check with your local fire department.

 

[moxie]

Disagree. Ammo cans are designed to release pressure well before ammo can become a "bomb."
Although ammo in huge quantities in the military is stored in storage areas well away from dwellings, etc., significant quantities are stored at "issue points" in ammo cans in armories, offices, shops, etc., sometimes in a locker or conex, but often just stacked in separate rooms, depending on what's available. As a former explosives safety guy I'm unaware of any cases of ammo boxes "exploding."

 

[Reloadron]

Just use GI ammo cans. That said and you mention basement I would just go buy some copper pipe (3/4") and some sprinkler heads (1/2" NPT.) Overall for less that a few hundred bucks you can install your own sprinkler system. I suggest some reading on sprinkler systems so you have a handle on what you are doing. That should quench your concerns about fire. The ammo in cans will be just fine.

Ron

 

[22-rimfire]

I don't have a safe answer for the powder. So, I would just store it as you would any other flamable product inside your house. If you are really worried about it, build yourself a block powder house outside. Sounds stupid. The bullets or projectiles are not a big deal and my advice is generally to store them in the metal truck boxes (work site boxes) with some dessicant or metal ammunition cans that are tight.

 

[Sunray]

If you become the victim of tragedy, the only thing you can really do it tell the FD what's in there. Putting powder and ammo in an air tight steel container creates a big bomb.
"...Occasionally my mind wanders..." Kind of nice, isn't it? Makes for a nice break in the day. snicker.

 

[hso]

if heated to the point that a round cooks off, they will almost certainly all go off together, making a rather large explosion.

People have got to stop repeating this myth. It simply does not happen. In endless house fires no ammunition in any sort of container has caused an explosion. Ever. The reason is that all propellants in modern ammunition are not explosive (save some primer). The only risk is from black powder packed tightly in a sealed container.

Look at the SAAMI video for the bonfire section where 18,000 rounds are loosely burned over an open wood and diesel fuel fire. While the ammo isn't contained in an ammo can, the ammunition is exposed to the same temp during most of the fire. The ammunition cooks off for over 5 minutes instead of building to one big bang. While an ammo can wasn't used it is clear that even when the heat reached maximum temp the ammo didn't all "explode" at once. It won't happen in the open and it won't happen in a can and it can't make a big KABOOM.

 

[moxie]

hso is correct.

Military EOD routinely burns, usually in shallow pits, quantities of ammo that fail inspections for one reason or another, or when lot # accountability is lost. These "burns" are spectacularly boring events similar to the SAAMI test in the video above.

Regarding the ammo cans. Again, as I noted above, they are designed to release internal pressure. The ammo doesn't explode. This is taught in the first week of "bomb school." There is no "bomb" danger.

 

[Charlie Horse]

Here on the Gulf Coast, we have almost cornered the market on humidity. I'm a big fan of ammo cans and desiccant. I keep enough in my trunk on duty to reload everything have with me at least once, which means 100 rnds of .40 150 rnds of 5.56 and\or a couple of 25 round boxes of shotgun shells. All of the above rides in a fat fifty can with desiccant.

 

[Walkalong]

Ammo cans and a sprinkler system if you are that worried about it.

One thing I do recommend is marking the area so firefighters will be aware of what is in the room if they respond to a fire at your home.

 

[hso]

I checked with our Senior MEC PM (retired EODT/spec ops UXO) and he agrees with moxie that ammo cans full of ammo are not bombs that will KABOOM in a fire. That's two MEC/EODT professionals that have laid that myth to rest and we should all take note of it.

 

[rodinal220]

"Hatcher's Notebook" Book by Julian Hatcher is good read if your interested in this kind of thing.

Don't worry,its just the powder pushing the bullet out.

 

[hso]

If you're concerned about what the FD will do, invite the Chief over after providing a copy of the SAAMI video to him. Walk him through and be sure you listen carefully to what he has to say.

He shouldn't be concerned with the loaded ammo and he may not be concerned with the primers, but you may end up in a discussion about the powder. Just be prepared to store the powder in a wood and double dry wall magazine.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I have personally seen what happens in a safe, and this was a true U.L. rated safe, when ammo inside it cooks off. There was not a terribly large amount of ammo, and I can't tell you if it cooked off over time or went up essentially all at once, but every single round did go off. It filled the safe with what I would suppose would have been a cloud of incandescent gas, and nothing contained in the safe was undamaged.

The owner had a loaded firearm in the safe and it too cooked off, firing a .375 H&H round into the roof of the safe from a distance of inches. I don't know the weight of the bullet, but it did not exit the safe, the exterior remained totally intact.

I strongly urge everybody not to store ammunition in your safe, RSC, or any other container that you may have valuables in.

900F

 

[Rat Robb]

The best place Ive heard to store ammo and reloading supplies is in an old refrigerator. Air tight, durable and an intruder is none the wiser.

However, I am currently storing my ammo in the bottom of my safe, which contains an 18" rod dehumidifier (Golden Rod). Ammo is either in original packaging, ammo cans or ammo boxes. My reloading supplies sit on a shelf above my reloading bench and about 5' from that is my whole house dehumidifier set to 50%. In the winter, I run a small space heater near my bench set to 60*, kicks on maybe once every couple hours.

Im looking for a small fridge to start storing my ammo and reloading supplies but thats one more thing in my basement, lol.

-Robb

 

[homatok]

Old fridge with magnetic door, secured with a chain and lock that allows the door to open an inch or two, just in case pressure builds in the event of a fire.

 

[rondog]

Oh my, I'd have to have a LOT of old fridges! I reload a lot more than I shoot too, and storage is an issue. I also use the steel USGI ammo boxes/cans, I just have too stinkin' many - all full. I have them in my garage on some steel shelves, covered with a blanket so they're not visible. I plan to rebuild the area with larger shelving. Someday.

FWIW, I like the "fat .50" cans. I think they're for M240 ammo, not positive though. But they're big enough that a standard .50 cal can will fit inside, yet they're not too big. I put my ammo in the white boxes from Midway, and the fat .50's will hold lots of them nicely.

 

[Reloadron]

While it can be argued that ammunition cooking off in a fire presents no threat please look at the below image of improperly stored ammunition:



Seriously, I am in the ammo can group, after all ammo cans were designed for what?

I also do not store ammunition in my safe. I can buy cheap lockers or shelving for my ammo cans and place my safe, cans and all my loading components under sprinklers which all things considered are cheap at the price. During a fire constant streams of cold water pouring over everything and yet everything protected.

Ron