New ATF Trust "Responsible Person" Form (5320.23) on .gov

[Bartholomew Roberts]

http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/DownloadDocument?documentID=420966&version=1

Note how "Responsible Person" is defined:
"Definitions

4. Responsible Person:

(a) In the case of a trust, any individual, including any grantor, trustee, or beneficiary, who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument or other document, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm;

(b) In the case of a partnership, any individual, including any partner or manager, who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any contract, agreement, article, certificate, bylaw, or instrument, or under State law, to direct the management and policies of the partnership to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on the behalf of the partnership;

(c) In the case of an association, any individual, including any member, officer, director, board member, owner, or manager, who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any contract, agreement, article, certificate, bylaw, or instrument, or under State law, to direct the management and policies of the association to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on the behalf of, the association;

(d) In the case of a company (including a Limited Liability Company (LLC)), any individual, including any member, officer, director, board member, owner, shareholder, or manager, who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any contract, agreement, article, certificate, bylaw, or instrument, or under State law, to direct the management and policies of the company to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the company; and

(e) In the case of a corporation, any individual, including any officer, director, board member, owner, shareholder, or manager, who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any contract, agreement, article, certificate, bylaw, or instrument, or under State law, to direct the management and policies of the corporation to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the corporation."

 

[TRX]

Other than the tedious repetition, what has changed?

 

[Arizona_Mike]

First time I've seen the draft. Are things moving along or is this a draft for the old proposal?

Here was all I could find in the Metadata:
Created: 2013-08-23 15:12:57
Modified: 2013-08-23 15:13:35
Author: RMButler
Creator: Adobe PageMalker 7.0
Producer: Acrobat Distiller 10.1.7 (Windows)

Given it is more than a year old, this is not evidence that they are moving forward.

Mike

 

[Aaron Baker]

It's an interesting form. At the bottom, item 7, it says that if you are a responsible person and live in a state where you can't possess NFA firearms, you can't be a responsible person.

That's interesting, since currently, if you live in a state that doesn't allow NFA firearms, you can still be a trustee of a trust that owns them. You obviously cannot possess them while in your home state, but you could possess them when traveling to the "free" state where the firearms are normally held (presumably by another trustee who can possess them in their home "free" state).

That would be a major change in how trusts work. I wonder if the ATF can really do this from a legal standpoint--I don't recall seeing any part of the proposed regulation that actually addressed this.

Aaron

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

As written the form is also unclear on whether a future possesory interest that hasn't vested yet makes one a "responsible person."

 

[Aaron Baker]

Absolutely. We're left to parse this:

(a) In the case of a trust, any individual, including any grantor, trustee, or beneficiary, who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument or other document, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm;

What does directly or indirectly mean? Does "receive" include the eventual transfer, assuming the trust is not amended or revoked?

What do you do if the beneficiary is not yet 18 years old, and under the terms of the trust, would only inherit once they were of age? What do you do if the beneficiary is an organization?

The ATF is potentially creating a mess, and I'm definitely in the camp that prefers that they just leave well enough alone.

Aaron

 

[boricua9mm]

Anyone with pinkeye has no right to touch my NFA items.