New Birdshead Grip for Mossberg 500 - Real or Fake?

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

As many of you are aware, it is next to impossible to find a birdshead grip for the Mossberg 500. Speedfeed used to make one but discontinued it.

I carved my own out of the original wood which came out pretty nice, but still would like a plastic one. I stumbled upon this website:

http://www.shockwavetechnologies.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=50

But with no phone number, and no e-mails answered, or option to pre order, I am wondering if this is vaporware? Does anyone know more about this product/company?

 

[Leadhead]

Makes sense because it's the best pistol grip option for a Mossberg's control layout so If speedfeed doesn't want the business someone else can pick up the slack!

 

[ants]

"This product will be in stock Monday, August 1, 2011."

Well, that part I can accept. This is the catch:

"Shotgun not included."

Too bad, I wanted the shotgun more than the grip.

 

[oneounceload]

It is slightly longer, too. This ensures that pistol-grip-only firearms with 14" barrels have an overall length of 26.5", keeping your firearm out of the purview of the NFA. (Check your state laws first.)

They might want to check out the barrel length requirements a little more.......

 

[il_10]

Oneounceload: Actually, it's likely that they're correct.

IANAL, but,
The 18" limit on shotguns applies only to shotguns. Which are defined by the NFA as having originally been designed or redesigned to fire from the shoulder. PGO shotguns from the factory are not shotguns, rifles, or handguns, and are outside of the purview of the NFA so long as they maintain an over-all length of 26", at which point they become AOW's. Thus, a weapon designed to fire shotgun shells that came from the factory in pistol grip configuration can legally have a barrel chopped to below 18" without becoming an AOW or SBS so long as it retains an OAL of 26" or greater.

There are BATFE rulings on this, which I'll try to find.

edit: Right, the ruling was laid out clearly at the last SHOT show, and can be found here:

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/ffl-newsletter-2009-11.pdf

 

[USAF_Vet]

I was under the impression that a factory PGO shotgun was, in fact, an AOW.

According to the ATF article posted

A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is
not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore,
is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or
shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older.

So, what then is a firearm "other than a rifle or shotgun"? Is that an AOW?

If so, then why aren't there more ATF forms to fill out when buying a PGO shotgun? Or are there? I've never bought a PGO sg before.

 

[Ron James]

I don't play around with NFA guns. don't really feel the need. However the information put out above , I believe it is in error. Smooth bore shotgun less than 18 inches, need paper, whether or not its on a pistol grip or not. If the barrel is 18 inches and the over all length is 26 inches, then you are home free. Telling people that it doesn't matter how short the barrel is, will lead naive people to trouble. I wonder if the Fed's will buy the excuse " well I read it on the Internet so it has to be true ".

 

[il_10]

I'm not saying it's a good idea to monkey around with it, especially since I've not yet heard of any test cases or anyone else doing it, I'm just saying that's my understanding of the ATF's current stated position.

USAF Vet: What they are isn't clear. They're not shotguns, nor are they AOW's. They're just "long arms". PGO shotguns, like the mossberg cruiser, aren't sold as rifles, shotguns, or pistols. They're sold in the same way as bare AR receivers are. Neither this nor that.


I'll go ahead and quote the article BATFE position from the last newsletter that I posted previously:

"Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within
the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though
they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition. For example,
firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of
the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.
A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is
not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore,
is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or
shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older.
Additionally, interstate controls apply. The licensee and
transferee must be residents of the same State.

Edit:

I take that back. There have been test cases.

Here's the letter from the tech branch on that very question, confirming what I said earlier.
http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/PistolGrippedShotgunLike.pdf

and here's another.

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

"on the internet" turns into a decent argument when the internet yields official BATFE statements.

 

[burnse]

I think that the 18" or 20" would work just fine with a grip like this. Unless somebody plans on CCing that bad boy, how useful is a 14" bbl compared to 18 or 20? Maybe a subject for another thread.

Legality aside, to get back to the OP, what do people think about the site/company? Is this going to be something worth looking at? For the style, would it be a better idea to seek out an old speed feed grip?

 

[plunge]

i'm reading all this and it is making me even more confused. it can't be fired from the shoulder and the ATF says it's not a shotgun and not an AOW as long as it's over 26 inches, but any weapon over 26" COULD be a AOW.so if one was 26" overall with a 12" barrell it could be legal, but they aren't saying for sure..lol

 

[amd6547]

All I can say is, I have used several different pistol grips on my Mossberg for decades.
A couple years ago, I got the SpeedFeed birds head, and it is the best pistol grip I have used...points well, let's you use the safety easily, and ameliorates recoil.

 

[Sam1911]

Several threads on the legal question already, but the jist of it is this:

PGO shotguns -- manufactured and sold without ever having a shoulder stock installed -- are "Other Firearms" on the 4473 form. Just like a stripped AR receiver or a belt-fed, semi-auto M1919. They cannot be sold by a dealer to anyone under 21.

A "Shotgun" is restricted to at least an 18" barrel, and 26" overall by the definitions of the National Firearms Act '34. BUT, a shotgun by definition must be "designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder."

So, the ATF says, an "Other Firearm" is not subject to the 18" barrel rule. However, if it becomes less than 26" overall, it is now a concealable arm and thus falls into their interpretation of one definition of a Title II "Any Other Weapon."

A few configurations of PGO "other firearm" could indeed have barrels less than 18" and still maintain a total length greater than 26". This type of stock helps with that, as do certain models with receivers that are long-ish.

 

[ugaarguy]

Here's there contact info, hidden under the "Shipping & Returns" heading:
http://www.shockwavetechnologies.com/catalog/shipping.php

 

[Owen Sparks]

Real or fake it is still a very poor choice for a shotgun stock as only hits count in the real world.

 

[Leadhead]

Actually Owen it's the best choice but I don't consider it a stock.

 

[Pfletch83]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
(ATF) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) are
committed to protecting our nation from individuals who
seek to acquire firearms for use in criminal activity, including
violence towards innocent people. To be successful, we need
the assistance of the firearms industry.

This is the part that really...and I do mean really gets to me after the whole 'Operation Fast&Furious" episode.

It's almost laughable,again I say ALMOST laughable,until you think about what they did,then if you're like me it makes you very angry.