new bullets in the mail

[murf]

my missouri bullet co. order arrived this morning. 125 grain swc hi-tec 9mm .356" dia. i just had to work up a load for the glock 19 and try it out!



this also became a case length test. i sorted the win cases by length and will see if it makes a difference in group size.

anyway, i'm happy to have a practice load for the glock w/ the stock barrel. i've already made up ten more @ 1.083" c.o.l. and will run them over the chrony tomorrow. so far no leading in the stock barrel.

murf

 

[Dudedog]

One thing I found about the MBC SWCs as they were more sensitive to seating depth than the MBC cones. In my testing I found that longer OALs shot better.
(bullet base getting squeezed by case taper????) They do cut cleaner holes than the cones but overall I found the cones shot better for me.
I might have some chrono number I will check. As I recall they seemed to shoot well with 3.8gr of Universal and the vels were a bit over 1000fps.

 

[murf]

thx for the input, dudedog. i fired the 1.083" c.o.l. rounds today and got quite a surprise:



a pleasant surprise as the group size looks like it has been cut in half. now that i have a clean barrel, i'm going to load up ten more of the same and see if i can get that extreme spread to be a little more consistent.

murf

 

[murf]

well, the group finally came back for the last four shots, the poi shifted up and the barrel is starting to lead up in the last inch of the barrel. why is the hitec coating not working? at least i got an accurate load out of these bullets.



murf

 

[Blue68f100]

Glock factory barrel????

Have you slugged you barrel? Not that it would tell you anything since it's not std rifling .

Getting leading at the end of the barrel would indicated the lube is not working fro the full length (normally a rifle thing). BUT these HyTec bullets do not require lube.

My suggestion is back of the load a little and see if the leading clear up.

 

[Havok7416]

Leading is an odd issue with Hi-Tek. As long as the base of the bullet is covered there should be no issue. Most of the coating on the sides comes off as the bullet grabs the rifling. I have found the front of the bullet to lose some of its coating as well upon impact from bullets I recovered.

 

[murf]

blue68f100,

thx for the suggestion. i was thinking the hitec coating can't handle the horsepower. next up: reduce the load. the leading isn't real heavy, but i have only ten shots down the barrel since clean.

havok7416,

i didn't know the coating came off. i was under the impression it stayed on all the way down the barrel.

murf

 

[Havok7416]

No, the coating definitely comes off wherever it is in contact with the rifling. Hi-Tek can be successfully run up to 2,600 FPS, so you are well within limits there.

Here are some bullets I have fired with coating on them for comparision. I regularly run coated bullets through my 10mm guns at 1,400 FPS-plus.

The gold colored ones are Hi-Tek (fired at 1,419 FPS) as is the roundnose .45 bullet. As you can see, the coating does come off along the sides and top, but it remains at the base where it is most important.

If the coating comes off the back you can experience leading due to the lead being exposed and overheating under certain conditions. Other than that I'm not sure how Hi-Tek or powder coat would fail under the condtions you experienced.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Not a new gun is it? If it isn't broken in it will do the same thing a rifle barrel will with copper fouling. tooling from manufacturing process leave a barrel rough with tiny sharp edges. All we see is a shiny bore with new lines. If it's new break it with some FMJ in or lap the bore with some JB bore lapping compound. JB is good is good stuff.

Those tiny sharp edges peel lead off and it builds up over shooting.

 

[murf]

well, i dropped the powder charge from 4.3 to 4.1 grains of w231 (all else the same):



as you can see, the accuracy disappeared, the group veered left, the barrel (new glock stock) leaded quite a bit more than the with the 4.3 grain load, velocities were back down to a 1081 fps average, the extreme spread of the ten shots fired increased to 72 (45 with the 4.3 grain load), and all this starting with a clean barrel (just like last time). maddness! i got the wolf barrel out of storage, cleaned the lead out of it and will try the 4.3 grain load in it tomorrow.

any other recommendations are appreciated as i'm at a loss for why the barrel leads more with the lighter load.

murf

 

[murf]

wreck-in-crew,

i spent about two hours scrubbing the barrel with j-b last night to get it ready for today's shoot. i just spent another two hours tonight getting the wolf barrel deleaded for tomorrow's shoot.

havok7416,

hopefully, a lands and grooves barrel will solve the leading issue. just hope to have the same accuracy as the stock glock barrel with that 4.3 grain load. if not, i'll just keep cleaning the lead out of the stock barrel, i guess.

murf

 

[murf]

havok7416,

how did you get those bullets recovered with no damage other than the groove marks. will water jugs do the trick?

murf

 

[Havok7416]

If that solves your problem it will likely have more to do with a burr than the type of rifling. Others have reported success using coated bullets and polygonal rifling. Heck, I have a polygonal barrel in one of my guns and it does just fine.

The bullets were indeed recovered with (lots) of water jugs and a whole bunch of luck. I lost a few out the sides of the jugs. I made a write-up that I put on THR. You can find it via a search of my name and coated bullets. I'm on my phone now or I would link it here.

 

[Rule3]

I would call MBC. The HI Tek Coating should not come off at those velocities. If it does it was not applied correctly.

There should be no leading. There may be some of the color of the coating but not lead.

I have smashed them with a 5lb hammer and torched them with a propane torch and the coating was not affected

Something is not right??????

 

[murf]

that's why i want to know how havoc7416 tested those bullets. i want to see the coating scraped off the side of my bullets.

murf

just saw your post, havoc. will have to shoot some water this weekend. thanks.

 

[Havok7416]

I posted how above.
EDIT: I found my review on the retention. It can be found here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/powder-coated-bullet-retention-test-pics.787043/

 

[41 Mag]

I haven't used the Hi Tec brand but have shot a LOT of my own home powder coated bullets in various calibers. My unofficial findings are that while the faster powders are usually wonderful for target type and economic loads some also seem to be detrimental to the coatings due to either the composition of the powder or in how hot they burn.

All said, I still use 231, AA2, and Bullseye for a LOT of my target loads. I have however found that simply going to a tad slower powder usually works out better not only for the coating bit also with a bit smoother recoil but also in most cases the accuracy improved as well.

Like said though, this is simply my own unofficial findings. I will add that around 7gr of AA7, or 4.0-4.2ish grains of Bullseye are most pleasant for loads with plated or cast in the 115-125gr range.

 

[Blue68f100]

well, i dropped the powder charge from 4.3 to 4.1 grains of w231 (all else the same):

View attachment 230522

as you can see, the accuracy disappeared, the group veered left, the barrel (new glock stock) leaded quite a bit more than the with the 4.3 grain load, velocities were back down to a 1081 fps average, the extreme spread of the ten shots fired increased to 72 (45 with the 4.3 grain load), and all this starting with a clean barrel (just like last time). maddness! i got the wolf barrel out of storage, cleaned the lead out of it and will try the 4.3 grain load in it tomorrow.

any other recommendations are appreciated as i'm at a loss for why the barrel leads more with the lighter load.

murf

This tells me your bullets are not sealing off going down the bore. This is normally related to the bullet not fitting the bore and/or not expanding out to seal. Your polygon barrel apparently has some roughness that has not smoothed out. May need to shoot some jacketed bullets down it to try to smooth it out. May even try to lap the barrel with some JB Bore paste. Another option would be to try a different powder that is know to burn at a cooler temp. WSF comes to mind, and others. Hopefully your Lonewolf barrel will give you the results your looking for.

 

[murf]

well, the wolf barrel has a nice light coating of lead, as it shoud be! but, the group size is quite a bit larger than that with the stock barrel.



so, i'm going to try the same load @ 1.070" c.o.l. and try to shrink that group size.

murf

 

[Rule3]

[QUOTE="murf, post: 10493256, member: 134704"]well, the wolf barrel has a nice light coating of lead, as it shoud be! but, the group size is quite a bit larger than that with the stock barrel.

View attachment 230603

so, i'm going to try the same load @ 1.070" c.o.l. and try to shrink that group size.

murf[/QUOTE]

Why "should" the Wolff barrel have a coating of lead??

Are you sure it is not the Hi Tek coating? Run a patch of acetone down the barrel and see if if it is the color of the coating.

There should be no lead???

 

[murf]

no acetone, will brake cleaner work? nail polish remover?

murf

 

[Havok7416]

You shouldn't ever have a nice light coating of lead in your barrel. Are you sure what you are seeing is lead? Normally leading causes a ring to build up at some point in the barrel.

 

[murf]

well, i dropped the col ten thousandths to see if i could shrink my group size. not happening:



the group is non-existent. dudedog suggested i pull a seated bullet as the tapered 9mm luger case tends to squeeze the base of the bullet the farther it is seated in the case. i'm going to do just that and addend the results here.

murf

no discernible difference except: an approximately .0005" reduction in diameter right at the base, all the coating rubbed off (shows bare lead) right where the full diameter side of the bullet ends and the bevel starts. most all of the bullet diameter stayed @ .3565".

since my wolf barrel groove diameter is .3570", i may have a "bullet fit" issue here. will try back up @ 1.080 col with the wolf barrel, and @ 1.070" with the stock barrel.

 

[murf]

i might try and switch powders, too. i don't have universal, but will try good old bullseye. infinite variations to this game!

murf

 

[GBExpat]

no acetone, will brake cleaner work? nail polish remover?

FYI, the solvent in standard nail polish remover is acetone.