ReadyontheRight
Member
Have you noticed any new gun control laws lately?
There IS a difference between the Dems and Repubs.
New conservative movement?
- Thread starter Frandy
- Start date
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Have you noticed any new gun control laws lately?
There IS a difference between the Dems and Repubs.
gunsmith
member
I am sick of fake conservatives too ...but....
I think we have to build a 3rd party without giving power to stalinist like the hitlerites who want hitlery for pres
This terrorist was captured in 2003,guess where he was caught?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.abbas.arrested/
U.S. captures mastermind of Achille Lauro hijacking
From David Ensor
CNN
Wednesday, April 16, 2003 Posted: 5:10 AM EDT (0910 GMT)
Abu Abbas, the Palestinian terrorist who masterminded the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro, was arrested by U.S. forces outside Baghdad. CNN's David Ensor reports (April 16)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Abu Abbas, a convicted Palestinian terrorist who masterminded the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro on which a wheelchair-bound American was killed, was captured by U.S. Special Forces in the outskirts of Baghdad, U.S. Central Command said Tuesday.
Abbas, whose real first name is Muhammed, was apprehended Monday night in a compound of three buildings.
His capture was made possible by information from U.S. intelligence, officials said. Several others were also captured at the compound, the officials said. Various documents and passports were also seized.
"One of our key objectives is to search for, capture and drive out terrorists who have found safe haven in Iraq," Central Command said in a statement. "The capture of Abu Abbas in Iraq removes a portion of the terror network supported by Iraq and represents yet another victory in the global war on terrorism."
A senior administration official said the capture sends a strong message to terrorists: "You can run, but you cannot hide." To other terrorists, he warned, "We will hold you to account."
Abbas is the general director of the Palestine Liberation Front, which the U.S. State Department has designated a terrorist organization.
Palestinian Cabinet member Saeb Erakat said Wednesday that the United States violated the Oslo peace accords when it seized Abbas.
Erakat pointed to the Israeli-Palestinian interim agreement, covering the West Bank and Gaza, that was signed by the United States, Israel, Palestinian Authority, European Union, Russia, Jordan, Egypt and Norway.
That agreement specified that no member of the Palestine Liberation Organization will be arrested or brought to court for any action that happened prior to September 13, 1993, the day the Oslo accord was signed, Erakat said.
There was no immediate response from the United States to Erakat's claims.
Soon after Abbas' capture, U.S. officials said U.S. indictments of Abbas for piracy, hostage-taking and conspiracy have apparently expired, although they could be renewed. U.S. officials said Abbas' fate --whether he will be sent to an Italian prison or face a U.S. trial -- is "unresolved."
A Palestinian source told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that Abbas tried to flee to Syria, but was turned away at the border and was captured about 50 miles west of Baghdad.
Palestinian militants under Abbas' command hijacked the Achille Lauro in October 1985. During the hijacking, Leon Klinghoffer -- a 69-year-old wheelchair-bound American Jew who was with his wife of 36 years on the cruise -- was killed and dumped into the sea.
"He created troubles. He was handicapped but he was inciting and provoking the other passengers. So, the decision was made to kill him," Abbas told the Boston Globe in 1998.
Klinghoffer's daughters said in a statement Tuesday they are "delighted that the murderous terrorist Abu Abbas is in U.S. custody."
"While we personally seek justice for our father's murder, the larger issue is terrorism. Bringing Abbas to justice will send a strong signal to terrorists anywhere in the world that there is no place to run, no place to hide."
The daughters, Lisa and Ilsa Klinghoffer, added: "We hope the U.S. prosecutors will be able to revive a federal indictment against Abbas for piracy, hostage-taking and conspiracy, and we urge them to do so."
A warrant for Abbas' arrest is outstanding in Italy, where he was convicted and sentenced to five life terms in absentia in connection with the hijacking. Since then, he has lived in Tunisia, Libya, Gaza and finally -- since 1994 -- in Baghdad, where he was under the protection of deposed Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. (Profile)
The Palestine Liberation Front, one of multiple offshoots of the Palestine Liberation Organization, was initially based out of Tunisia, but relocated to Iraq after the Achille Lauro hijacking. His group also was responsible for many attacks in Israel.
In an October speech in Cincinnati, Ohio, President Bush accused Iraq of harboring Abbas.
"Iraq has also provided safe haven to Abu Abbas, who was responsible for seizing the Achille Lauro and killing an American passenger," Bush said.
Abbas was a member of the Palestinian National Congress and occasionally traveled to the Palestinian territories, though his movements there were restricted. In a 1996 interview, he told CNN the time for an armed struggle for a Palestinian state was over.
The Achille Lauro hijacking ordeal came to an end after two days when four heavily armed terrorists and Abbas, who helped with negotiations, surrendered to Egyptian authorities in exchange for a promise of safe passage.
As an Egyptian airliner was flying them to safe haven in Tunisia, U.S. Navy fighter jets forced the plane to land at a NATO air base in Italy, where they were arrested. Abbas was soon released by the Italians.
I think we have to build a 3rd party without giving power to stalinist like the hitlerites who want hitlery for pres
This terrorist was captured in 2003,guess where he was caught?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.abbas.arrested/
U.S. captures mastermind of Achille Lauro hijacking
From David Ensor
CNN
Wednesday, April 16, 2003 Posted: 5:10 AM EDT (0910 GMT)
Abu Abbas, the Palestinian terrorist who masterminded the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro, was arrested by U.S. forces outside Baghdad. CNN's David Ensor reports (April 16)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Abu Abbas, a convicted Palestinian terrorist who masterminded the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro on which a wheelchair-bound American was killed, was captured by U.S. Special Forces in the outskirts of Baghdad, U.S. Central Command said Tuesday.
Abbas, whose real first name is Muhammed, was apprehended Monday night in a compound of three buildings.
His capture was made possible by information from U.S. intelligence, officials said. Several others were also captured at the compound, the officials said. Various documents and passports were also seized.
"One of our key objectives is to search for, capture and drive out terrorists who have found safe haven in Iraq," Central Command said in a statement. "The capture of Abu Abbas in Iraq removes a portion of the terror network supported by Iraq and represents yet another victory in the global war on terrorism."
A senior administration official said the capture sends a strong message to terrorists: "You can run, but you cannot hide." To other terrorists, he warned, "We will hold you to account."
Abbas is the general director of the Palestine Liberation Front, which the U.S. State Department has designated a terrorist organization.
Palestinian Cabinet member Saeb Erakat said Wednesday that the United States violated the Oslo peace accords when it seized Abbas.
Erakat pointed to the Israeli-Palestinian interim agreement, covering the West Bank and Gaza, that was signed by the United States, Israel, Palestinian Authority, European Union, Russia, Jordan, Egypt and Norway.
That agreement specified that no member of the Palestine Liberation Organization will be arrested or brought to court for any action that happened prior to September 13, 1993, the day the Oslo accord was signed, Erakat said.
There was no immediate response from the United States to Erakat's claims.
Soon after Abbas' capture, U.S. officials said U.S. indictments of Abbas for piracy, hostage-taking and conspiracy have apparently expired, although they could be renewed. U.S. officials said Abbas' fate --whether he will be sent to an Italian prison or face a U.S. trial -- is "unresolved."
A Palestinian source told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that Abbas tried to flee to Syria, but was turned away at the border and was captured about 50 miles west of Baghdad.
Palestinian militants under Abbas' command hijacked the Achille Lauro in October 1985. During the hijacking, Leon Klinghoffer -- a 69-year-old wheelchair-bound American Jew who was with his wife of 36 years on the cruise -- was killed and dumped into the sea.
"He created troubles. He was handicapped but he was inciting and provoking the other passengers. So, the decision was made to kill him," Abbas told the Boston Globe in 1998.
Klinghoffer's daughters said in a statement Tuesday they are "delighted that the murderous terrorist Abu Abbas is in U.S. custody."
"While we personally seek justice for our father's murder, the larger issue is terrorism. Bringing Abbas to justice will send a strong signal to terrorists anywhere in the world that there is no place to run, no place to hide."
The daughters, Lisa and Ilsa Klinghoffer, added: "We hope the U.S. prosecutors will be able to revive a federal indictment against Abbas for piracy, hostage-taking and conspiracy, and we urge them to do so."
A warrant for Abbas' arrest is outstanding in Italy, where he was convicted and sentenced to five life terms in absentia in connection with the hijacking. Since then, he has lived in Tunisia, Libya, Gaza and finally -- since 1994 -- in Baghdad, where he was under the protection of deposed Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. (Profile)
The Palestine Liberation Front, one of multiple offshoots of the Palestine Liberation Organization, was initially based out of Tunisia, but relocated to Iraq after the Achille Lauro hijacking. His group also was responsible for many attacks in Israel.
In an October speech in Cincinnati, Ohio, President Bush accused Iraq of harboring Abbas.
"Iraq has also provided safe haven to Abu Abbas, who was responsible for seizing the Achille Lauro and killing an American passenger," Bush said.
Abbas was a member of the Palestinian National Congress and occasionally traveled to the Palestinian territories, though his movements there were restricted. In a 1996 interview, he told CNN the time for an armed struggle for a Palestinian state was over.
The Achille Lauro hijacking ordeal came to an end after two days when four heavily armed terrorists and Abbas, who helped with negotiations, surrendered to Egyptian authorities in exchange for a promise of safe passage.
As an Egyptian airliner was flying them to safe haven in Tunisia, U.S. Navy fighter jets forced the plane to land at a NATO air base in Italy, where they were arrested. Abbas was soon released by the Italians.
xd9fan
Member
Great Readyontheright, no new gun laws is a great "pro-gun standard" for this party
Lets get the 1934 and 1968 crap off the books because they are not constitutional.
The GOP move to the big Govt left shows you just how dependant the baby bloomers are on Govt. They like their socialism.
Locally Minnesota has a great gal running for Gov this year www.suejeffers.org she has my vote.
Lets get the 1934 and 1968 crap off the books because they are not constitutional.The GOP move to the big Govt left shows you just how dependant the baby bloomers are on Govt. They like their socialism.
Locally Minnesota has a great gal running for Gov this year www.suejeffers.org she has my vote.
ReadyontheRight
Member
Do you really think any political party has the power to advocate unregulated interstate handgun, "sawed-off shotgun" and machine gun sales?
I send a check for $2000 to a guy in Texas. He mails me a Ma Deuce, an Ithaca AutoBurglar and a Glock 17 right to my door. All legal-like.
It should happen, but it ain't gonna happen. We let that go in 1934.
We have our own fight right now to start swinging the pendulum back.
I hope all of you (us) abandoned by the Republican Party will still vote. Voting for an alternate candidate is the best way to communicate to the party what its future platform should be, not staying at home. Don't forget, either, that the Republican Party was the third party at one time.
As for those who advocate blindly following the leadership of the Republican party, regardless of what they actually do, instead of what they say: at least conisder the possibility that in a war charging straight ahead isn't always the best way to achieve one's objective. At times flanking manuevers and strategic retreats are called for.
If conservatives keep voting for Republicans, even if they don't carry through on there platform promises, they'll never listen or develop genuine political accountability.
As for those who advocate blindly following the leadership of the Republican party, regardless of what they actually do, instead of what they say: at least conisder the possibility that in a war charging straight ahead isn't always the best way to achieve one's objective. At times flanking manuevers and strategic retreats are called for.
If conservatives keep voting for Republicans, even if they don't carry through on there platform promises, they'll never listen or develop genuine political accountability.
xd9fan
Member
"Letting it go" is not good enough....its not constitutional.
Selfdfenz
Member
XMP
Well put.
We tend to forget that it's not always been just Ds and Rs. Other parties have come and gone over the past 230 years. I'm sure it's hard for supporters of the RP, having just taken the WH and both houses of Congress in the last election to accept their party is about to begin a period of decline.
Who the Rs nominate to run for PoUS next go round will tell the tail. If it's McCain or his equal they're sunk.
Frankly I have no idea how the RP can convince the defectors they are honestly moving back to a conservative plan. Who would believe them?
S-
Well put.
We tend to forget that it's not always been just Ds and Rs. Other parties have come and gone over the past 230 years. I'm sure it's hard for supporters of the RP, having just taken the WH and both houses of Congress in the last election to accept their party is about to begin a period of decline.
Who the Rs nominate to run for PoUS next go round will tell the tail. If it's McCain or his equal they're sunk.
Frankly I have no idea how the RP can convince the defectors they are honestly moving back to a conservative plan. Who would believe them?
S-
The_Antibubba
Member
Seems like it, doesn't it?
Actually, I think the author called it.---
It's time for the liberty-minded wing of the Republican Party to face facts: the neo-cons do not care one whit about freedom or liberty or small government. It's time we remember the differences between conservative and reactionary. Iran's ayatollahs aren't "conservative". And who the hell knows where Dubya sits on the scale? If he's a conservative then I don't know what the word means anymore.
We tend to forget that part of the reason the Democrats are spinning their wheels is because of internal conflicts. There are a fair number of libertarians who have concluded that the Dems are the lesser of two evils as they continue to oppose a State-run theocracy. A true liberty party, one that didn't stick it's nose into people's private business (even in the name of "security") would draw a lot of people from all affiliations. When the party of "Freedom" justifies no-warrant surveillance of the citizenry and denying lawyers to anyone, regardless of the crime they are accused of, then changes must be made.
A Republican loss of Congress and White House might be the only thing that will save us, rough as it might be. I don't know what else might pull their collective heads out of their heinies.
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
Sun Tzu, author of "The Art of War," once wrote: "The way to avoid what is strong is to strike what is weak." The ineffectiveness of blindly charging straight ahead is a lesson that Heinz Guderian should have taught the world with his Blitzkreig of Europe in 1940 and Erwin Rommel should have taught us with his brilliant North African campaign, but it was a lesson the allied commanders were never able to learn. As a result, tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers died needlessly in Africa and Italy, accomplishing little in the case of Africa and almost nothing in the case of Italy.
Fortunately Hitler was also unable to learn the lessons taught by Sun Tzu, Rommel, and Guderian. He was especially unable to understand the fact that strategic retreats can lead to lasting victories, and the allies won in spite of the lack of vision and imagination displayed by such pathetic fools as Montgomery and U.S. Army General Mark Clark.
There is much to be learned from history, much that can help us today. The current leadership of both parties is as trapped by its own greed, pride, and short-sightedness as Hitler and the Allied commanders in WWII. The flanks of both parties have been fatally weakened and are ripe for a coordinated third party attack, yet it seems too many of us are unable to see a course of action other than butting heads against the same-old same old.
Lone,
Why would I be mad at my fellow conservatives for voting 3rd party in 2008, allowing Hillary Clinton to be elected to the Presidency?
Because both McCain &/or Giuliani can defeat her on the Republican ticket if we dont screw the pooch like we did in 92 with Perot & his deficit reduction platform.
That's how we got the first President Clinton elected ...
Look neither one of them (McCain nor Giuliani) are my first choices either, as they are much more moderate than I am, but they are not openly hostile (ie: vehemently opposed) to conservative values.
Why would I be mad at my fellow conservatives for voting 3rd party in 2008, allowing Hillary Clinton to be elected to the Presidency?
Because both McCain &/or Giuliani can defeat her on the Republican ticket if we dont screw the pooch like we did in 92 with Perot & his deficit reduction platform.
That's how we got the first President Clinton elected ...
Look neither one of them (McCain nor Giuliani) are my first choices either, as they are much more moderate than I am, but they are not openly hostile (ie: vehemently opposed) to conservative values.
Lone_Gunman
Member
There is NO way I would vote for McCain or Giuliani, as long as the Republicans hold the Senate or the House.
We would be better off with Hillary in the White House if the Republicans manage to still hold on to the Senate and House in 2006.
Gridlock is our friend, and if Hillary is elected the Republicans in Congress would block anything she wants to do.
I have learned the hard way not to trust Republicans with the Presidency, House, and Senate at the same time.
With McCain or Giuliani in the White House the Republicans will blindly support any trash they propose simply because they are all in the same party. The Republicans have accomplished more of the liberal Democratic agenda in the last 6 years than the Democrats have accomplished since LBJ left office.
RealGun
Member
The GOP is distracted by God and gays, so I think they will succeed or fail on those issues. Being conservative in any secular sense is obviously not a priority, but I think they are still the pro-business, pro-capitalism, pro-international trade party in contrast to the Democrats. I don't know of a third party definition that has a healthy balance of all the best thinking on what government should be. Every one of them has some hang up, some deal breaker, that is based upon an emotion based, self serving issue. Either that or the platform is simply not realistic.
Portraying a choice between GOP or Democrat as picking "the lesser of two evils" is then not inappropriate, but I believe it is still wise to pick one of those two choices. Since there will never be a perfect choice, one will always be picking from among "evils". At least ones vote will count toward what actually happens. I don't see that effectively dropping out of the process in protest accomplishes anything except self indulgence, some illusion that one is special by heckling the process from the sidelines.
Portraying a choice between GOP or Democrat as picking "the lesser of two evils" is then not inappropriate, but I believe it is still wise to pick one of those two choices. Since there will never be a perfect choice, one will always be picking from among "evils". At least ones vote will count toward what actually happens. I don't see that effectively dropping out of the process in protest accomplishes anything except self indulgence, some illusion that one is special by heckling the process from the sidelines.
longeyes
member
This ls like assuming that the Bloods and the Crips will only keep fighting each other and you will be "safe." You still live in the thrall of thugs and sooner or later you need to deal with that reality head-on.
dmallind
Member
So a single Palestinian who hijacked a ship under Reagan's watch and eventually ran into Iraq to be conveniently found AFTER we had started a war on Iraq that had been planned for over a year (and probably over a decade), kicked off because a mostly Saudi group blew up a couple of buildings and gave us the excuse to....well bomb Iraq for some reason - is proof that we didn't start the Iraq war?
Oy.
Oy.
seeker_two
Member
The "new" conservative movement started a long time ago...
Jump on board......
See below....
Jump on board......
See below....
xd9fan
Member
"picking between the lesser of two evils"
Great options for america. Amazing how voters box themselves in and will continue to reward the GOP out of fear of the other Pro-Govt party.
nothing will change unless the american voter does.
Great options for america. Amazing how voters box themselves in and will continue to reward the GOP out of fear of the other Pro-Govt party.
nothing will change unless the american voter does.
What's with all of the third party political recruitment posts?
They have become so incessant that they have become almost like McDonalds commercials on television (all of them are the same and you have to endure one every 15 minutes).
Dont get me wrong, I agree with alot of what Libertarians & Constitutionalists say, but they cannot win nationally, they cannot even come close.
So we conservatives would be better off with Hillary Clinton appointing more leftist judges to the federal courts & possibly even the Supreme Court, or another Janet Reno to head the Justice Department?
I dont freaking think so.
They have become so incessant that they have become almost like McDonalds commercials on television (all of them are the same and you have to endure one every 15 minutes).
Dont get me wrong, I agree with alot of what Libertarians & Constitutionalists say, but they cannot win nationally, they cannot even come close.
So we conservatives would be better off with Hillary Clinton appointing more leftist judges to the federal courts & possibly even the Supreme Court, or another Janet Reno to head the Justice Department?
I dont freaking think so.
Lobotomy Boy
Member
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- 2,449
It's just that enough of us have become so disgusted with the Republicrats and Democans that if we were to grow a collective spine and vote our consciences instead of joining the bleating sheep who claim alternate parties can't win elections, well then alternate parties would start winning elections.
dmallind
Member
Well based on recent history we'd have a balanced budget, frictional unemployment, almost no inflation, a stronger dollar, cheaper gas (Bush took Gore to task over gas at $1.60 in the debates after all decrying that as the best Democrats could do since they didn't understand energy), a better balance of trade and payments, fewer dead soldiers, less domestic spying, no Patriot Act, and a President who could string together a coherent sentence (in the language he may or may not be keen to make the national one depending on which day you ask him) without smirking and snorting like an 8th grade Special Ed student.
But dammit we'd have to press the mag release catch on a Glock 17 8 more times in a 200 round range session so yeah we'd be worse off.
Lobotomy Boy
Member
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- 2,449
The situation as it is, according to your post, is that there are too many people willing to vote for alternate parties. In other words, we are developing large enough numbers to frighten the entrenched parties. You yourself pointed out the fact that there is a large number of people supporting altertnate parties, and from a political perspective that is not a problem; that is a strength. If I supported either of the entrenched parties, I would find the situation as it is frightening.
BigRobT
Member
Lobotomy Boy, you forgot to mention just WHY Jesse stole the election away from the prominent parties. We had Skip Humphrey (Dem) and Norm Coleman (Dem, turned RINO), and Jesse to choose from. While Skip garnered a LOT of money for the state of MN, I think he hurt MN more than anything. And as for ol' Norm, who can trust someone that ran on the Democratic ticket to become mayor of St Paul and conveniently turned Republican to run for governor ?? In MY mind, that left one viable choice. Someone that SEEMED to be shooting straight. Now, we have Norm Coleman as a Senator and I'm not real happy with what he's accomplished. And Mark Dayton, he ain't running again, not that I voted for him in the first place.
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