New England Westinghouse Rifle

[wardog]

A buddy of mine inherited this rifle. It was made by New England Westinghouse. It is chambered in 7.62X54R.

At first glance I thought it was possibly a sporterized military rifle, like a Mosin Nagant or something but it's not.

Unusual features: no markings anywhere that it is 7.62 X 54R, and there appears to be no manual safety.

Anyone have any info?

 

[wardog]

another pic

 

[Cosmoline]

That does indeed appear to be a sporterized Mosin-Nagant 1891. Check the underside of the receiver's tang screw hole to see the precise date and maker's mark. Westinghouse made a lot of these for the Czar during WWI but many never got delivered due to the Communist uprising.

There is a manual safety. The entire back part of the bolt can be pulled back, turned counter-clockwise and then attached to the receiver. It's one heck of a safety Good way to improve grip strength, too.

I don't usually like Bubba, but in this case it appears to be an older, better-quality job. Some of the sporter pieces from the '20's and '30's are actually quite nice. I've seen MUCH, MUCH worse than this.

The chambering should be 7.62x54R, but best check to make sure. Also check headspace as it's hard to say where this beast has been in the past century.

Note: That old receiver sight may be worth more than the rifle! If that's an old sporter as I suspect you'll often find valuable sights that haven't been made in many decades mounted on what are basically worthless rifles.

 

[alcmaeon]

Yep

It looks like a sporterized M91. New England Westinghouse and Remington both made M91s for the Russians.

 

[diyj98]

Cosmoline beat me to the punch. He's dead on with the description. The value of the gun is ruined as far as collectibility.

 

[Cosmoline]

It's ironic, since at the time I'm sure the owner thought he was adding enormous value to a worthless old Mosin.

Thankfully in the case of the M-91's there are so many millions out there that they're worth little sporterized or unsporterized. What really broke my heart was when I found a Mannlicher-Schoenauer with Greek Naval marks and a two-digit SN hacked to bits by a rude Bubba. That rifle would have been worth $800 or $1,000 easy if he hadn't cut it up. In fact I've never seen another for sale anywhere with Naval marks on it.

 

[wardog]

Cosmoline,

Thanks for the info. I can't find a date for it anywhere. I looked under the receiver. The tang hole screw is right in front of the magazine, right? There are what look like some markings there, but I can't tell what they are. One looks like a "K" with a blob on the left side, and the other mark looks like a teepee.

The sight is a Lyman. It's the one interesting thing on the rifle. When you work the bolt, the aperture (sp?) swings to let the bolt by, then springs back into position.

Thanks for the tip on the safety. I actually thought that's where it would be, but didn't try hooking it to the left.

 

[Cosmoline]

It's sometimes worn nearly off.

One note of caution--make darn sure you don't have a Bannerman .30'06 sporter! If your rifle accepts a dummy '06 round, then you've got one. These do not have a good reputation for safety. If it's still in 7.62x54R with good headspace, it should last another century.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, guys,

The marks under the barrel are inspectors marks. On top of the receiver is the Russian double headed eagle. Sometimes, there is a U.S. eagle head inspectors mark, indicating that the rifle was taken into U.S. service as a training rifle. This was done with thousands of those rifles because 1) the U.S. was desperately short of rifles and 2) it was in the interest of the country to "bail out" two companies important to our own war effort. Most of those Remington and Westinghouse rifles in the country today had been sold off by the army; many of those were converted to .30-'06 by Bannerman and others.

Hi, Cosmoline,

I have heard that for years, but have never actually saw or knew of one of those converted rifles "blowing up" or having any other problem. When I was in high school, a friend's father hunted with one and never had any trouble. I knew enough about guns to think he was nuts when he told me it was .30-'06, but he was right.

Jim

 

[Cosmoline]

It may well be an old wives tail. What I heard was that Bannerman had done a very poor job with the conversion on some, creating cracks in the receiver. Ordinarily there's no real reason why the Mosin action couldn't take the pressures of a .30'06 load. 7.62x54R can get quite hot.

 

[DMK]

Sometimes, there is a U.S. eagle head inspectors mark, indicating that the rifle was taken into U.S. service as a training rifle.

Some of them were even put into active service, with the Navy. I'm not too sure about the other services but remember, this was during a time when our soldiers practiced manuevers with broomsticks and trucks with the word "tank" painted on the sides.

 

[DMK]

Here's some U.S. sailors with Mosin-Nagants

 

[Cosmoline]

Wow! That's a great pic. Never saw that before. Look how some have used their knot tying skills to rig up slings! Who says sailors don't know anything about rifles?

 

[Bart Noir]

Today I learned something new, thanks to THR.

Yup, great photo. Reminds me of WWII one I saw recently, showing US Army practicing for amphibious assault, in a pond in a British park. The locals were standing nearby in their 1940's swimwear, looking slightly amused. Anyway, a squad is charging ashore, all carrying original Lee-Metford rifles that Britain issued in, what, 1889 or something. And they had rope slings, like some of these rifles on the Olympia. I figure that the soldiers needed to carry a rifle as practice, and they were not going to use their Garands in the water.

And the Olympia, old battleship built here in Seattle and named after the WA State capital. Not available as a tourist attraction for us. That, my friends, is a bummer.

Bart Noir

 

[GD]

You should find the date on the bottom of the receiver tang (You'll have to take the receiver out of the stock to see it). This rifle was probably made in 1916 or 1917 as were most U.S. contracted M91 rifles for the old Russian Empire.

 

[DMK]

I figure that the soldiers needed to carry a rifle as practice, and they were not going to use their Garands in the water.

They might not have had their Garands issued to them yet.

 

[Jim K]

The American forces sent into Russia in 1918 to oppose the Bolsheviks were armed with the Model 1891, but those rifles were obtained in Russia and were in the original 7.62x54R caliber.

During the Soviet era, propagandists never let the Russian people forget that the Americans had once invaded their country.

To make things worse, Jeanette Rankin (R-Montana), the first woman elected to Congress, demanded that the troops who had been in Russia be isolated on an island and banned from coming back to the U.S. as they might carry some dangerous disease. (Rankin was a suffragette and a pacifist, as well as all-around, well, different. Apparently she was liked by the voters of her district, but just about everybody else considered her a nutcase. She was one of the few members of Congress to vote against declaration of war in 1917 and the only one to vote against the declarations of war in December, 1941.)

Jim