Yesterday I went to the local Dunhams to purchase a gun they had on sale for a Christmas present. I filled out the paperwork and everything was ok. As the salesman was boxing up the gun, I mentioned to him that I was buying the gun for my daughter for Christmas. He asked me how old she was and i told him she was 26. He picked up the gun off the counter and backed away from it and then told me that he couldn't sell me the gun. I replied with huh? and he told me that since I was buying the gun for her and she was over 18, that her name and info had to be on the paperwork instead of mine. he told me that I could pay for it, but she would have to pick the gun up at the store. He also said that the batf didn't allow gun purchases to be surprises such as Christmas gifts. Has anyone run into this, or know where I might get information on it
New gun not as gift
- Thread starter starman
- Start date
- Status
SMMAssociates
Member
Well, you can't buy a gun for someone who would be legally forbidden from owning it....
Some states wouldn't permit you to transfer the gun to your daughter without all kinds of magic paperwork....
IANAL, but I don't see any other restrictions.
If your state doesn't toss in roadblocks, perhaps the sales person misunderstood her age....
Regards,
Some states wouldn't permit you to transfer the gun to your daughter without all kinds of magic paperwork....
IANAL, but I don't see any other restrictions.
If your state doesn't toss in roadblocks, perhaps the sales person misunderstood her age....
Regards,
Lupinus
Member
now thats just plain stupid I have heard of plenty of people getting guns for gifts.
My reccomendation is don't say anything if anyone asks its yours.
My reccomendation is don't say anything if anyone asks its yours.
justsurvivingincalifornia
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
- Messages
- 186
I was told the same thing when I was with buddy buying a gun for his wife.
If you buy a gun and later decide to give it as a gift after you have take custudy of the gun, that's another story. You would just tell them to go to your local FFL for paper work. To keep it legal that is.
If you buy a gun and later decide to give it as a gift after you have take custudy of the gun, that's another story. You would just tell them to go to your local FFL for paper work. To keep it legal that is.
beerslurpy
member
It is absurd. Inform him that you are taking possession of the gun yourself and will only transfer it to your wife/girlfriend in accordance with state and federal laws.
Also tell him to mind his own business.
Also tell him to mind his own business.
ZenMasterJG
Member
Are face to face transfers illegal in any states?
What state are you in.
Not a straw purchase... almost certainly just a stupid salesman.
What state are you in.
Not a straw purchase... almost certainly just a stupid salesman.
Lupinus
Member
"Owner? Who said anything about giving it to her I was gonna take her shooting"
starman, i had this exact thing happen to me at Dunham's here in MI. really ticked me off. had three mosins (fantastic sale) all ready to go, even filling out the papers, when i mention they were intended for my three boys, for christmas. lilttle punk, doesn't even look eighteen, says, "i can't let you buy these." i got rather indignant and told him "look dude, they are for me, i'm buying them". he tells me, "to bad i can't sell them to you, cuz of what you just said". instead of going off like i wanted to, (and am quite capable of doing) i just left the store. i got home and told my wife to go up to Dunham's and buy the mosins. 20 minutes later, she walks in with three rifles.
Lupinus
Member
and thats how it should be.
If anyone wishs to practice buying guns for someone else I don't mind being a guinea pig
If anyone wishs to practice buying guns for someone else I don't mind being a guinea pig
SMMAssociates
Member
IANAL, but it's a "straw man" purchase only if the intended recipient couldn't legally buy the weapon himself/herself.
(Actually, admitting that it was an illegal straw man purchase on the 4473 probably would be self-incrimination.)
What's likely happened is that somebody told these salespeople that "buying a gun for somebody else is illegal", and didn't say "unless the other party could legally purchase the gun, if the State doesn't forbid the transfer without paperwork we're not able to do."
There are exceptions to that for "under the purchaser's control" situations, here in OH, at least. Like a parent buying a child a gun for use in joint sessions on the range, or while hunting under adult supervision. My not-quite-twenty daughter "owns" a .22 target pistol and a single-shot .22 rifle. She's old enough to take full possession of the rifle (she was about 8 when I bought it), but has to wait a little over a year before she could take the pistol. OH law requires nothing....
(I'm not sure she couldn't take the pistol now, too, being over 18 - I have to read that fool pamphlet again - but she has to be 21 to buy one herself.)
Regards,
(Actually, admitting that it was an illegal straw man purchase on the 4473 probably would be self-incrimination.)
What's likely happened is that somebody told these salespeople that "buying a gun for somebody else is illegal", and didn't say "unless the other party could legally purchase the gun, if the State doesn't forbid the transfer without paperwork we're not able to do."
There are exceptions to that for "under the purchaser's control" situations, here in OH, at least. Like a parent buying a child a gun for use in joint sessions on the range, or while hunting under adult supervision. My not-quite-twenty daughter "owns" a .22 target pistol and a single-shot .22 rifle. She's old enough to take full possession of the rifle (she was about 8 when I bought it), but has to wait a little over a year before she could take the pistol. OH law requires nothing....
(I'm not sure she couldn't take the pistol now, too, being over 18 - I have to read that fool pamphlet again - but she has to be 21 to buy one herself.)
Regards,
Lupinus
Member
I believe you can take it shooting by yourself you just have to be 21 to actually buy the handgun or the ammo for it least I believe that is the law.
steveno
Member
your mistake was telling the clerk what you what going to do with the gun even if it is legal. it is none of their business. next time don't tell the clerk anything
GlenJ
Member
+1 Steveno. I'm very tight lipped when I do a gun purchase. I do think with the straw purchase law it has a lot of shop workers paranoid.
TallPine
Member
In most places it is probably best to keep your mouth shut.
However, about a year ago my wife and I were picking out a revolver for my daughter (who wasn't there) and the clerk at Big R in Billings was fine with that. Technically, she couldn't have bought it herself since she was only 18 at that time but she can possess it after I bought it.
However, about a year ago my wife and I were picking out a revolver for my daughter (who wasn't there) and the clerk at Big R in Billings was fine with that. Technically, she couldn't have bought it herself since she was only 18 at that time but she can possess it after I bought it.
ScottsGT
Member
Just pay for it, have them hold it on lay-away and give a "coupon" for a free gun to your daughter for Christmas. Then have her go pick it up. The gun purchasing/ATF form might make her appreciate all the crap citizens have to go thru to exercise their rights guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment.
Aguila Blanca
Member
Not certain, but I believe even if the recipient can legally possess firearms, it is a straw man purchase if you purchase it for somone using his/her money rather than your own. In such a case, it isn't a "gift."SMMAssociates said:
SMMAssociates
Member
Lupinus:
I don't think there's any age restriction (past 18) on ammunition. Too many pistol-caliber rifles out there.... I believe you're correct on possession, though. The kid hasn't expressed any interest in keeping the guns in her apartment yet.... (The landlord's still iffy about the cats.... )
Hawk:
I don't know how the heck the "ownership" of the money could be proven unless it's a check or credit card.... However, that would probably make it as a "straw" purchase.
With all the BS involved in gun sales, the "straw man" rules may be the only ones that make sense in terms of keeping disqualified persons out of the mix, but it's confusing, too. :banghead:
Regards,
I don't think there's any age restriction (past 18) on ammunition. Too many pistol-caliber rifles out there....
I believe you're correct on possession, though. The kid hasn't expressed any interest in keeping the guns in her apartment yet.... (The landlord's still iffy about the cats.... )Hawk:
I don't know how the heck the "ownership" of the money could be proven unless it's a check or credit card.... However, that would probably make it as a "straw" purchase.
With all the BS involved in gun sales, the "straw man" rules may be the only ones that make sense in terms of keeping disqualified persons out of the mix, but it's confusing, too. :banghead:
Regards,
Lupinus
Member
To buy pistol ammo you have to be 21 to buy it just like the gun.
Mastrogiacomo
Member
I brought my father guns - one his permit allowed (the GP100) and another it didn't (Walther P99). He still uses it just at the range when I'm with him - the person I bought both guns from (who was a cop) knew I was buying for my father and didn't bat an eye. Still on the whole, I wouldn't mention it. I tell my Dad if anyone asks, say it's daughter's guns - which is true enough as they will be some day. I don't think it's anyone's business who you buy for as long as they have a permit and you respect the limitations of that permit.
Desertdog
Member
I agree.
IIRC,in PRK a person to person transfer must go through an FFL, so why pay the fees twice.
Lupinus
Member
everytime I try to buy pistol ammo they wont sell it to me unless my mother is there
Sam
Member
Perfectly legal to buy a firearm as a gift so long as the recipient is legal to own anyway.
You really need to challenge them on it, otherwise they will never learn.
It used to be on the old yellow 4473, not sure of the new ones as I haven't really read through the whole thing since they came in.
Sam
You really need to challenge them on it, otherwise they will never learn.
It used to be on the old yellow 4473, not sure of the new ones as I haven't really read through the whole thing since they came in.
Sam
SMMAssociates
Member
Lupinus said:
Lupinus:
I'll rent you mine if you want. She's 90.... My dealer's sister, who sort of runs the place, is a friend of hers, so I don't have any problems.
(I bought a copy of "Quake 4" the other night. Little girl running the register sort of sheepishly asked if I was over 21. "Well, I've got a daughter who'll be 20 in a couple months. Does that count?")
'Course, Lupinus, you do look kinda young....
(I had a young lady working for me at the former day job many years ago who happened to run into an aunt in the grocery store. Aunt asked her what she was going to do after she graduated High School. Jane reminded her that she was about 25..... She still looks to be under 30, which is good 'cause she's about 55. I'm 59....)
Getting serious for a minute, I've been over 21 for so long that I tend to forget all this stuff unless I'm hanging about with my daughter or get into a discussion like this. It bothers me that the "under 21" crowd sometimes gets screwed over by issues of the sort. Admittedly, there are emotional maturity issues involved that make the need for a line to be drawn consequential, but it bites some people.
Regards,
- Status
