New Guy getting started

[traveling1253]

First of all hello and I hope everyone had a great Christmas.

New guy here to the HighRoad forums and to handloading, Santa brought me a shiny new RCBS Rockchucker Supreme loading setup. Have done quite a bit of reading on the subject of handloading ammunition but would appreciate any hints, tips advice I can get. I have been using Winchester white box 165gr FMJ's from Wallymart as it was the cheapest ammo I could find for target/plinking practice in my .40 cal Springfield XDM 3.8". I have chosen 180gr Winchester PDX-1 and 180gr Speer Gold Dot bonded as my defense loads of choice. As you would expect there is quite a difference in felt recoil and muzzle flip between what I practice with and what I would be using in a no other option defense situation. I am looking to create an affordable range load using inexpensive cast or plated bullets that would approximate the same feel as the expensive 180gr factory hollowpoint loads. I have been saving my brass from the range and have about 500 once fired cases on the shelf waiting to be reborn.
I sent in my order to Cabelas to fill in the pieces that RCBS does not include in their kit and the components required to load .40 S&W.

Cabela's Bullet Puller w/4 Collets @ $19.99
RCBS Carbide Pistol Dies 10MM/.40 S&W @ $44.99 each
RCBS Shell Holder #27 @ $7.99 each
CCI Per 1000 Primers SMALL PISTOL @ $29.99 each
Hodgdon Smokeless Powder LONGSHOT 1LB @ $19.99 each
Cabela's 6" STAINLESS STEEL DIAL CALIPERS @ $24.99 each
Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets 40 S&W 180 GR RS @ $29.99 each

Just getting started here, I know I will want a brass tumbler and a case trimmer but that will probably have to come later on. Am I on the right track here as far as equipment? How about the combo of 180gr plated bullets and Hodgdon Longshot? I believe the expensive Winchester and Speer factory loads are listed to push a 180gr hollowpoint slug at around 1000fps +/-.
Thanks

 

[Peter_S]

It looks to me that you are on the right track equipment-wise. I have a Lyman tumbler with the two tubs; a small and large one. Never used the small one but it looked like a good idea at the time. The tumbler itself does a great job in a short time. I use a small amount of Flitz for polishing, but I know others here use car polish too.

I don't reload .40 so I can't give you any advice there, but if I can say one thing about reloading...take your time, double check everything you do, and keep lots and lots of notes. Okay, that was 3 things...just be safe and have fun.

 

[oneounceload]

Welcome to reloading, but if you are only buying powder by the pound and primers by the 1K, you might be better off buying them local to save the hazmat fee............IIRC, there is a Cabela's in your state, so it might be better to go to the store; otherwise, when mail ordering powder and primers, buying 5000 primers (a sleeve), and an 8# jug will be the same hazmat fee - by spreading it out over 5000 loadings or more, it makes your cost per round drop a lot

Once you really get going, you'll discover a boatload of inline places with even better prices.

I did not see any manual, if you don't have one or three, add those to your MUST HAVE list

Good luck!

 

[skipjack]

You're on the right track. I would just get more of everything...bullets,
powder and primers. The hazmat is going to be charged whether you
buy 100 or 10,000 primers. Ditto powder.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=582052

Above is another useful tool, but you can use your barrel as a gauge
until you can get one.

I have never trimmed pistol brass, but some folks do.

If you get the chance, check out grafs catalog. They sometimes
run specials where the hazmat fee is waived if buying a certain amount.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/

 

[traveling1253]

Thanks for the info guys, I only purchased a small lot of supplies just to get started and see if I can come up with a load that I like. I'm sure that there are places with better pricing than Cabela's but I have always had prompt service from them and wanted to be sure and get my supplies this week. Besides they were running a $20 coupon promo for orders over $150 which covered the hazmat fee. If I find that the econo-plated bullets and Hodgdon's works out I will be looking to purchase in bulk.

Yes the RCBS kit came with a Speer reloading manual, I also got reloading data from Hodgdon's website. From the website for Berry's plated bullets, they suggested using recipes for cast bullets if available or staying 10% below the max of the same weight jacketed bullet if data for cast is not available.


Correction, this was from Rainier's website and loading info for their plated bullets. " they suggested using recipes for cast bullets if available or staying 10% below the max of the same weight jacketed bullet if data for cast is not available."

 

[1SOW]

travelling1253: You did the smart thing. You may end up with totally different bullets, powder and primers when you hit your "perfect" load. This leaves you room to experiment. You can save money to buy a lot of of bullets by finding a source near you, so you don't need to ship.

The only thing I may have missed seeing is the "reloading manual". Did you get a get a Lyman's 49th or other manual for rload data and information?

OOPS! There it was---Speer. Most will recommend having a second manual and it will help with different bullets and powder combinations.


Enjoy!

 

[54lariat]

+1 on multiple manuals, u can never have enough


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[traveling1253]

Anyone have personal experience with plated slugs and LongShot in a .40? Results?

 

[rfwobbly]

Mr Travel -
Welcome to THR and welcome to Reloading!

Some thoughts....
• You've got some great equipment and your reloading ideas sound OK. However, your press came with a Speer manual. As a novice it's best to work directly with a bullet and powder combination as printed in your manual. If Longshot is not one of the powders listed, then go get one that is. You'll have enough on your mind without having to invent a load, right off the bat. Be safe.... Stick with the book.

• Self defense loads are not something you want to cook up yourself. If you ever really need them, you'll really NEED them. Five feet from a BG is not the time to wonder if your load works. As time goes by and your percentage of active rounds goes to 100%, then you can possibly consider it.

• Making a load SIMILAR to your factory SD load is a VERY GOOD objective. This can be easily accomplished with your Berry bullets.

• In all reloading, always start with the "starting load" and work up. Five to ten rounds of each load, shot from a steady rest combined with "reading the pressure signs" will get you there quicker and more safely. Resist the temptation to jump to the higher loads. If you read your book you'll see that the listed loads were NOT developed in handguns, and so the only way to know how they will behave in your gun is to "Go Slow & Start Low".

Read, read, read. If you have questions we're all here for you.

All the best.

 

[rfwobbly]

Anyone have personal experience with plated slugs and LongShot in a .40? Results?

Mr Travel -
No biggie, but shotguns shoot "slugs", you have 180gr Berry plated bullets.

Read the FAQs on the Berry web page (HERE) to find out how to load them. I'm not saying this to be mean or hateful, but to teach you to gather your own trusted information. I can certainly tell you the answer, but you don't know me from Adam. If you really want to base the bomb in your hands on information gleaned from strangers on the internet, then sir you are in the wrong hobby. The reloading recipes are NOT like making oatmeal cookies. You just can't go halve the sugar and double the walnuts because it sounds tasty. Follow?

Secondly, if Longshot is not in your Speer book, then you need to travel to the web page of Hodgdon, the distributor to get trusted information. HERE On that page you'll see a load for Longshot and 180gr Hornady XTP. You can use that load, again always starting at the "starting load" and working up from there. Load about 8-10 rounds at the starting load (SL), 8-10 more at SL+0.2gr, then 8-10 at SL+0.4gr, and so on. Shoot them in the same order from a rest.

Finally, write down all your loads in a reloading notebook and take notes at the range about how they shot. Then you can go home and load 50 or more of your favorites.

That should get you going.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Anyone have personal experience with plated slugs and LongShot in a .40? Results?

Never used LongShot, but I've shot a lot of plated bullets using Bullseye and Unique. I REALLY like Bullseye for the .40. Both powders shot great with the plated bullets. You might give them a try since you're going to be trying some different stuff.

Welcome aboard!

 

[TX expat]

Congratulations on getting started! I recently started hand loading myself and bought the same kit. The RCBS rebate made it an overall great deal!

I am doing the same thing with the Berry's 180 gr. bullets. I've worked up a load that has the same feel as my SD rounds. I wouldn't try to hand load actual SD rounds (for the reasons mentioned above plus it would amount to one more thing some lawyer would pick apart if you ever had to use them), but I wanted a practice round that 'felt' like my SD round without the cost of using the actual round to practice with.

 

[traveling1253]

Again thanks for the words of advice and caution. I have been to Berry's bullet website and read what they said about using a low-mid range jacketed loading in the same weight. Downloaded the PDF data from Hodgdons website and found the loading info for a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet with Longshot powder. The pressure listed for this combo at the starting load is 25000 psi which is right in the middle of the 180gr starting load listings which range from 23800 with HP-38 up to 28300 with WST. If I am interpreting what I have read correctly it should be safe to start with 6.5gr Longshot under the 180gr Berry's Plated bullet and achieve what I am looking for. My intention is to have an affordable practice loading with the same feel as what I have chosen for a SD round. Factory defense loads I have chosen push 180gr bullets at around 1000fps. Again from what I have read this should be fairly easy to accomplish with the Longshot powder with low and safe pressures. I have no intention of creating my own SD loading, factory ammo for that.
Just want to make sure I am not off the mark here and missing something.

Edit: My other line of reasoning for selecting Longshot is the wide range of loadings they give, from 6.5 starting up to 8.0 max with 180gr bullets. Other Hodgdon offerings have as little as .4gr between starting and max loadings. The big difference I am wondering about is the bullet type, while the same weight the Hornady XTP's in the listing are hollow points and the Berry's are not.

 

[traveling1253]

Ok, the UPS man delivered the goods today. I have the RCBS 3-piece carbide die set for .40 S&W. The directions that came with the dies say to screw the sizing/decapping die down till it touches the shell holder with the ram at full stroke. Problem is that the Speer loading manual that came with the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme kit tells you to leave a small space (about 1/32") between the die and the shell holder. Which one is right?

 

[rfwobbly]

Hey, welcome back!

The carbide ring that does all the work is as hard as glass, and being that hard it can shatter with any kind of shock. Since the carbide ring is at the bottom of the sizing die, it should never touch the shell holder. So you do want a gap. How much is up to you. If you have ever adjusted the valves on an engine and know how to make critically small adjustments, then you want as small a gap as possible. I've learned here to use a sheet of paper. The idea is to get as much of the case re-sized as possible. If you are not sure of your adjustment skills, then .032" (1/32") will certainly work just dandy.

Now that is for the first die, the Sizing Die, only.

Hope this helps!


PS. Funny story about carbide. My son the techno-reloader got married about 2 months ago. He talked his wife into these really pretty gray carbide wedding rings. Guess what? His has already shattered.

 

[rfwobbly]

The pressure listed for this combo at the starting load is 25000 psi which is right in the middle of the 180gr starting load listings which range from 23800 with HP-38 up to 28300 with WST. If I am interpreting what I have read correctly it should be safe to start with 6.5gr Longshot under the 180gr Berry's Plated bullet and achieve what I am looking for.

The Hodgdon Data

180 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Longshot .400" 1.125" 6.5 1009 25,000 PSI 8.0 1159 32,300 PSI

Some coments...

• Obviously, you can go down to 1 psi, but then you take the chance the bullet won't move too far. So we don't need to get carried away.

• Another thing is DON'T mix data from other powders in the same chart. Just because Win231 uses a lower pressure, doesn't mean it's applicable to Longshot. If you want that lower pressure, then use 231.

• However, you are correct. If you use the min load of 6.5gr of Longshot with a 180gr bullet then you'll get something like 1000 fps.

• But you may have additional issues. There is also a huge chance that the "starting load" of 6.5gr may not operate the slide on your gun. You just won't know until you try it.

• Remember: These loads are NOT worked up in pistols, they are developed in a "test barrel". A test barrel is nothing but a block of steel clamped in a vice. They are only reading pressures and velocities. All bets are off concerning operation of your slide.

• If you like the performance of a 1000 fps load and you just gotta do Longshot, then if the slide doesn't work you can always order a lighter spring.

Hope this helps!

 

[traveling1253]

Gotcha. Makes sense now, don't let the shellholder hit the carbide at the top of the stroke or else CRUNCH and another sale for RCBS.
Using the loading info from Berry's about selecting a midrange loading for jacketed bullets, I assumed and was looking at starting load pressures. When they talk about a midrange loading are they referring to pressure or muzzle velocity? Sent an Email to Berry's and asked a couple questions about loadings for their bullets but so far no reply.
One more stupid question that probably has been asked before, how many loadings will pistol brass hold up to.

Just gotta love the prompt service from Cabelas and UPS, ordered on Sunday and there it is on my door step Wednesday afternoon.


Don't have a tumbler yet but wanted my brass clean. Took an old pair of socks, 50 once fired Winchester brass in each and into the washing machine with the laundry they went. VOILA clean shiny casings ready to go. Just don't tell my wife.

 

[LiveLife]

Took an old pair of socks, 50 once fired Winchester brass in each and into the washing machine with the laundry they went.

If you must use the washing machine, I would recommend a separate washing with nothing that will have skin contact as any lead/fouling from the cases would end up in the rest of the laundry. Also, this way your wife won't be as upset if she catches you and find out you just washed some shop rags.

how many loadings will pistol brass hold up to.

If you use mild to moderate loads (no over max loads), I normally reload them until the cases split or develop loose primer pockets. How much stress you put on the case also depends on how loose your chamber is for case expansion and repeated resizing. Your XDM should have tighter chamber than say a Glock so you probably won't get bulged cases from mild to moderate loads. I have been shooting mid to high range 40S&W loads using W231/HP38 in tight chambered Lone Wolf barrels and I haven't seen a split case yet.