New(ish) Saiga 7.62, the most recent to the collection

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cchris

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Okay, so I got it a while back. I've been gone for a while from here when my classes last fall started getting really busy and I didn't have any free time. I wanna say I got this the week of Thanksgiving, and since then added the pistol grip (not converted, with a possible 'not yet') and Tapco stock, Surefire 30rd mag (stock, grip, and mag = 5 total US made parts), and did some custom work to the handguard.

xn7mh3.jpg

The handguard is stock on there, but I did a little cutting to expose the gas tube while keeping with the lines of the gun.

I'm not too concerned with making this thing a thousand-dollar gun, the fact is that I didn't have a semi-automatic centerfire rifle, and this one dropped down to the just-over-$300 range that I could afford.

As for the conversions, it seems pretty complicated and possible for me to screw up, but how difficult is it to move the trigger group forward on these?
 
I would give converting a serious look. It's not as hard or mysterious as it sounds. Essentially you would be replacing the stock, filing-grinding away rivets, removing the old trigger guard/trigger piece, replacing both aforementioned parts, and screwing the new PG into place. K-VAR sells a conversion kit in both NATO and Warsaw length buttstocks.
http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=335

Here is a vid series of a guy converting his Saiga on his kitchen table.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5-z7eXzWgc

Converting your Saiga will set the rifle's balance back where it should, remove the funky look of an unconverted one, and let you use the indestructible ComBloc steel magazines without violating 922r.
 
As for the conversions, it seems pretty complicated and possible for me to screw up, but how difficult is it to move the trigger group forward on these?
Click to expand...

Can you watch a video and/or look at pictures?
Can you turn screws with a screw driver?
Can you drill a hole?
Can you put a round peg through a round hole?
Can you turn on a dremel and hold the spinning part against metal? Alternately can you use a file?

Those are the mechanical skills required to do a basic conversion. It really is very easy. You would have to try to screw it up and you would have to try very hard to screw it up in some irreparable way. It is a simple and fun do it yourself project.

You not only get a better rifle (the rewards and improvements are multifarious) but its also fun to do and you will have a much better understanding of how your gun works.
 
for goodness' sake be specific: 7.62 doesn't mean a dang thing. Like saying "I really like my new rifle!!!"
 
Girodin said it best

here's the video:
http://vimeo.com/2787027

Peasants in caves literally build these guns without electricity. Drilling/Grinding/Filing 2 roll pins and 3 rivets is cake. That is all you need to do to move the trigger. 2 pins, 3 rivets. The bullet guide is one hole and 5 minutes with a tap.

Also, what magazine is that in there? FYI a Saiga without a bullet guide will not feed properly from AK mags. It will jam constantly.
 
for goodness' sake be specific: 7.62 doesn't mean a dang thing. Like saying "I really like my new rifle!!!"
Click to expand...

When referring to AKs it is generally understood that 7.62 means 7.62x39

The only others 7.62's AKs are chambered in are called .308 and x54r

I never seen anyone called 7.62x54r or .308 winchest 7.62 when talking about AKs. Maybe AR guys?

I dunno. Who cares? Besides, you can tell from a mile away that the gun in the picture is not a Saiga .308 - look at the shape of the magazine, and second, look at the front sight block distance to the muzzle, on Saiga .308 the front sight block is only a hair's distance from the muzzle. And there's no such thing as a Saiga in x54r so quit trying to nitpick
 
Until I saw the picture, I thought he meant a .308 Saiga too. But I only shoot 7.62x51 through mine.
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Like I said, the magazine and front sight block give it up a mile away

If there's anything wrong with the picture, it's that he bolted on a T6 instead of doing an actual conversion.
 
If there's anything wrong with the picture, it's that he bolted on a T6 instead of doing an actual conversion.
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Yeah, but I got a decent deal on it, I think I ended up paying $30 for it, it was really to tide me over until I could get around to doing the conversion.

Also, what magazine is that in there? FYI a Saiga without a bullet guide will not feed properly from AK mags. It will jam constantly.
Click to expand...

Surefire Saiga mag, it was on sale for $10 off, really just picked it up to keep in 922r compliant.

As for "7.62", I understand that many people think ".308", but generally when referring to Saigas, "7.62" usually refers to 7.62x39, as the 7.62x51 is sold as a "Saiga .308". Even on their website, the AK103/104 is listed as "7.62 mm" (http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml). I'd heard rumors of the 7.62x54r, but never saw those materialize.

Is it possible to use the stock trigger guard, or is a new one needed? I think I've seen someone shape the original one to fit before.
 
You can re-use the stock trigger guard. I have before. The spot weld can be a pain in the ass to grind/drill but it's worth it to save cash on the trigger guard. All you have to do is salvage it from the plate. After that just use a short nut and bolt to screw the rear of it to the receiver. Some people reshape the front, I don't even bother. You can use a little JB weld, or braze, or weld, the front part of it to the gun real quick. In fact you can even get away with not attaching the front part of it at all.

Also keep in mind the bottom of the receiver will be bare metal so you'll probably want to refinish it. For a while I was using Duplicolor 500 Low Gloss Black engine paint but I kept getting annoyed at how any gun cleaning chemical would remove it easily. So I went and got a little can of Birchwood Casey Super Blue for $5.99 and it's literally - sand it rough, dump some blue on a rag, wipe it on, repeat 2-3 more times, done.
 
I use the original. I cut it off where the little bend is at the back end to make it the right length and then install it with what was the back as the front around. A bolt a but and some lock tight in the back is plenty to keep it in place. Some people drill a front hole in the receiver and bolt it there too. I simply put int under the mag catch and have never had an issue with any of the conversions I've done. Drilling another hole and installing a bolt up front would be pretty easy, all mine have been solid enough without it I've just never bothered.

I use engine paint to repaint the bottom bare metal. IME it is as or more durable than the factory finish.
 
Sorry for the bump here, but I've decided to go ahead and do this conversion. I'm getting so many mixed things on what's needed - some people say you absolutely need a new FCG, some people say you can re-use the stock one, some people say a Tapco G2 will just drop it, some say it requires modification...I'm confused.

I'm on a budget, and don't have tons of cash to be spending. I've got a $20 gift card to Amazon (which I really rather would save), so if I absolutely need a new FCG, I can get it there.

You all know what I have here. All I want to do, as of right now, is just move the pistol grip forward (I'll deal with the bullet guide later - one thing at a time right now though). I see so many different directions out there, so many different parts list, that it's just served to confuse the living heck outta me. I couldn't get a straight, simple answer from any other places or people I asked, and I know you guys here are the best when it comes to a simple answer (that's why I signed up here).

Aside from the parts that I currently have (US made mag, SAW-style pistol grip, buttstock, and I can get my hands on some engine paint for the bare metal), what are the bare minimum parts I will need to do this conversion, moving the pistol grip to the proper configuration?
 
Absolute bare minimum conversion to AK configuration requires only:

TAPCO G2 FCG
Pistol Grip Nut & Screw
AK Retaining Plate
Bullet Guide Kit (need to check if the area in front of your barrel on the inside of the gun is rounded or flat)
AK Pistol Grip
AK Butt stock

You already have some of these components. The modified G2 are either for people trying to re install the factory bolt hold open and needing a hammer with a shortened leg, or people converting a Saiga 12 that need a reshaped hammer and such. Just get a standard TAPCO G2 FCG and you will be fine. You want an all american FCG, stock, and grip because at that point you're 922r complaint with any kind of magazine.

I also suggest doing the bullet guide. Only takes 10 mins, costs $25, and you get to use all the cheap $9 gun show magazines you can get your hands on.

All those parts listed above will run you only about $120 - and less for you since you already have some of them. this guy www.carolinashooterssupply.com has everything you need. He also has videos on there about conversions. Also go to vimeo.com and search "saiga conversion" the video on there is excellent.

Also if anyone gives you a link to a site with "cross-con" in the URL just laugh and ignore them
 
Thanks for the quick response.

So if I read this correctly, I am not able to use my existing pistol grip, pistol grip nut/screw, and buttstock? At what point does the retaining plate come in, and what is its function?

As I mentioned, I'm on a very strict budget here, I have very little I can spend on this (minus the G2 FCG, since I have a gift card to buy that with), so $120 is far out of the budget.

The reason I'm trying to get this done now is because I only have access to a machine shop and tools for the next month. After that, I'm stuck with a hammer and screwdriver. The bullet guide is not a top priority at this point, since that's $25 I just don't have.
 
the vimeo video is the best by far; and yeah, you figure tribesman up in the mountains, put ak's together with hammers and nails, literally.
you can do it. Once you do the conversion you will wonder why you didn't do it earlier, and the tapco trigger is a world of difference , from the saiga trigger.
I did mine, with a collapsible/foldable stock, with a rising cheekpiece, So it is both comfy, and i can put any sighting device i want on it, and get it at the right height. A complete parts kit, with the bullet guide and hardware parts, should cost you between 80 and 150 bucks, depending on the parts you get.
And doing the conversion, without getting the bullet guide kit, would be like making a super nice ak, with a great trigger, and turning it into a single shot, which is what you will be doing, if your Saiga mags do not work- which 99% of the time, will not work after a conversion.
 
Thanks for the quick response.

So if I read this correctly, I am not able to use my existing pistol grip, pistol grip nut/screw, and buttstock? At what point does the retaining plate come in, and what is its function?

As I mentioned, I'm on a very strict budget here, I have very little I can spend on this (minus the G2 FCG, since I have a gift card to buy that with), so $120 is far out of the budget.

The reason I'm trying to get this done now is because I only have access to a machine shop and tools for the next month. After that, I'm stuck with a hammer and screwdriver. The bullet guide is not a top priority at this point, since that's $25 I just don't have.
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I know you can re-use the stock you have by detaching the grip on it. Not sure about the grip, you might need a new one.

The retaining plate keeps the trigger and hammer axis pins from walking out of the rifle and the internals falling apart the first time you shoot the gun. This can be accomplished with a shepherd's crook or e-clips as well, but the plate is $6 and installs in minutes. The clips/crook will make you want to kill yourself.

If you don't have the bullet guide cash it's no problem just stick with whatever magazines you have. I just mention it to people because in the long run a $25 bullet guide and 8 AK mags is like ~$121 meanwhile 8 US made Saiga magazines is like $205
 
Ok, thanks, that makes it a little easier. I'll see what I can do with the stock, but an extra $15 is still within the budget (my limit's $25). I understand what you're saying about all those extra magazines costing a bunch, I definitely don't plan on dumping any more money into more Saiga mags.

As for the "pistol grip nut and screw", can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what exactly it is (length, diameter, etc.), how it installs, etc.
 
As for the "pistol grip nut and screw", can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what exactly it is (length, diameter, etc.), how it installs, etc.
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The nut fits in the square hole inside the bottom of the receiver. The screw goes up through the pistol grip and attaches it to the nut.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=815264


If you use a TAPCO and some other pistol grips, they come with their own screw(shorter), but you still need the special nut either way.

Google search: Saiga bullet guide. I've seen some folks make one out of a piece of pipe. You need to drill and tap the trunnion either way though.
 
Update on this project: I've ordered the pistol grip, and it comes with the screw, I'm just curious about the "special nut" that is needed - where to purchase one, etc. And I still have to order the retaining plate, I am not sure which of two it is:
http://www.tds-us.com/viewitem.php/tds/pd1976181/TAPCO_AK_RETAINING_PLATE
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduc...urce=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=649
Both are different styles, which one is necessary for this conversion?

The comment about ignoring the "cross con" website: what was wrong with that tutorial? I read through it, it seemed to be more descriptive than the rest. Was it the "improper" way to do this conversion?

I can get my hands on a dremel, I suppose there's an attachment for it that'll allow me to make the necessary cuts?
 
Get the one from tds-us thats the same shape as my retaining plate.


I did a convert and I am a idiot to tools!

It's easy as

Buy tapco trigger g2 system(if you wish)
A stock( I got a kvar because its long the tapco's are SHORT AND PAINFULL if you have long arms)
Pistol grip cheapo tapco $10 works great
Bullet guide

Ok youtube how to convert a saiga! tells your like everything, I followed it, it was hard for me because I did not punch hard enough with punch set, long story the drill would not drill into the metal because the punch was not there. After that it was pretty easy. Now enjoy $10 surplus magazines or pay $35+ for elite surefire magazines lol...

For the price of a few surefire magazines you can get your rifle converted properly (spell?)
 
Just watched the vimeo video, pretty much clarified it all for me. It didn't help I've got to wake up in the morning, and now I'm quite excited and looking forward to this conversion! Just have to go pick up the pistol grip I ordered, see if it came with the nut & bolt, and I've already got a good idea of how to take care of the rest. Watching the video really helped.

The G2 trigger kit is in the mail (just shipped today), I probably have some engine paint lying around, all that's left is ordering the retaining plate and possibly screw/nut. All the dremel attachments were in the dremel set I got my dad for Christmas...is it bad that I purchased it for him with the intent of borrowing it from time to time?

So the only last question I ask is what drill bit to use for this? The cheapest thing out there to drill out the rivets will do.
 
I like this conversion tutorial:

http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/saiga/saiga-1.htm

I'm doing a Saiga .223 and a 7.62x39. The process for both are the same except that the actual parts are different for the bullet guides and mags.

I've ordered the pistol grip, and it comes with the screw, I'm just curious about the "special nut" that is needed - where to purchase one, etc
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Look at this link here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=815264

See the square nut on the bottom? It fits in a square hole in the bottom of your receiver and rests at an angle. You might as well just buy the nut and screw together for this price. Save the long screw in case you want to add a regular pistol grip later.


As far as the Dremel, I've mostly used a cut-off wheel on mine, as well as some grinding bits. You can get these in your local Walmart.

For the rivets, I carefully ground off the heads with a cut-off wheel and then knocked them through.

I also used the cut-off wheel to trim off the interdiction tab at the rear of the mag well.
 
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Thanks for all the help. As for "Tactical Defense Solutions"?

$5.00 for the retaining plate...
$12.00 for the shipping.

AHAHAH what a ripoff. Should've guessed it from the name.

Just purchased both the grip screw/nut and retaining plate from Mississippi Auto Arms, $4.50 more for the retaining plate but only $7 total for shipping on both.

If I encounter any problems when doing this conversion (in the next couple of weeks)...well, I'll probably come here. Thanks again all.
 
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So much for hesitation, I've already started the "permanent" modifications of the rifle by removing the rivets, floorplate of the trigger guard, etc. and anything else that requires a Dremel. This should leave me with no more than just installing the G2 trigger and PG. So as an update on my first Saiga conversion, I'd say "so far so good".
 
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