New Jersey: "Cops attack gun availability, yet recycle own weapons"

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cuchulainn

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I'm sorry, sir, but there seems to be some sort of computer problem down at NICS. You'll have to wait a little while to take possession of that popcorn.

from the News Press of Atlantic City

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/newjersey/042003GUNS.html
April 20, 2003

Cops attack gun availability, yet recycle own weapons

Several traded-in N.J. police guns have been connected to crimes

By MICHAEL DIAMOND and JOHN FROONJIAN Special Reports Unit, (609) 272-7227

Few props carry the impact of a semiautomatic assault rifle. So on June 9, 1999, when Mayor Sharpe James announced that Newark would sue gun manufacturers to recover the costs of gun violence, the mayor picked up an AK-47 rifle.

"It's immoral and unconscionable that you can purchase a weapon of destruction over the counter like popcorn and ice cream," James said as he gripped the rifle.

With less fanfare 10 months earlier, authorities in Baltimore had made a drug arrest and seized a sub-machine gun. That weapon was allowed to go on the market by the city of Newark, according to records from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or ATF.

In fact, Newark has provided more than 1,500 firearms to gun dealers who in turn sell the used weapons over the counter. Like most New Jersey cities, Newark trades in used police weapons to dealers who provide a large discount when the city buys new police guns. It's as legal as selling popcorn.

Some cities have recycled hundreds of guns, some with high-capacity magazines that can no longer be manufactured, even as they work to reduce the guns available on the street.

Camden City and Camden County governments both sued gun manufacturers over the carnage caused by gun violence, yet combined they have traded in more than 250 guns. Dozens of cities, including Atlantic City, Pleasantville and Vineland, have run gun buy-back programs to take guns off the street, yet have provided hundreds of guns to dealers for resale.

The state requires all guns confiscated from criminals to be destroyed.

New Jersey law-enforcement agencies traded in nearly 12,000 weapons from 1985 to 2000. More than 100 of those guns were ultimately used in crimes, according to an analysis of ATF gun records by The Press of Atlantic City. Guns originally owned by police departments were used in murders in Florida and Puerto Rico. Two were used in suicides.

The actual numbers of New Jersey guns traded in and used in crimes are undoubtedly higher. Press reporters restricted their research only to police departments in the Atlantic City region and those statewide with 100 or more officers, accounting for about one-third of the state's police force. However, the vast majority of New Jersey police departments have traded weapons when they upgraded their guns.

The Press obtained the makes and serial numbers of guns traded in by police and compared them with ATF reports that traced ownership of guns used in crimes. (Most police departments willingly provided gun trade-in information. But several cities, including Trenton, Newark, Camden and Cherry Hill, provided the information only after The Press filed complaints charging Open Public Records Act violations.)

Here's what happened to some of the weapons, according to ATF records.


In 1996, a Trenton police gun was among a number of guns seized from the car of a man charged with killing a 17-year-old boy in a drive-by shooting near Nashville.


Colt revolver originally used by the N.J. State Police - which has ended its practice of weapons trade-ins - was used in a Jacksonville-area homicide about 10 years ago.


A 9 mm Smith & Wesson handgun traded in by Franklin Township police in Somerset County was used in a Miami-area homicide in 1998.


A former Newark Smith & Wesson was used by a Mobile, Ala., man who pistol-whipped his girlfriend and fired at her several times. Fortunately, he missed.

Questions from Press reporters about the practice have already caused some government agencies, including the state of New Jersey, to reverse their policies of trading in used guns.

A few public agencies had already decided to destroy or warehouse used guns.

Armando Fountoura became Essex County sheriff in 1990 after serving as a Newark policeman for 22 years. Two years ago, his department could have saved nearly $80,000 by trading in old weapons when it bought new guns.

Instead, Fountoura ordered 432 guns to be melted down.

"There are too many guns out there," he said. "The last thing I'm going to do is put more of them on the street. ... Some day, a police gun is going to be used to kill a police officer."

The sheriff noted that many cities have conducted gun buy-back programs, paying about $50 for handguns turned in by the public to reduce the number in circulation.

"Why, then, would we turn around and sell our guns, which gets them back on the street?" he asked.

Lawrence Keane of the National Shooting Sports Foundation criticized cities like Newark and Camden that sue manufacturers for selling guns while the cities themselves sell guns. Newark's suit in part charges manufacturers with negligent marketing and distribution of guns.

"It's the height of hypocrisy for these public agencies to sue the gun makers for doing what they are essentially doing," Keane said.

City officials in Newark and Camden refused to respond to requests for comment.

Camden mayoral spokesman Tony Evans said he did not know his city had sued gun manufacturers - the case is pending - and refused to comment on why the city has traded in weapons. City attorney Dennis Kille did not return repeated calls for comment.

Newark Mayor James also did not return repeated calls for comment. A hearing on motions in Newark's gun-manufacturer lawsuit is scheduled for May 9.

Some officials defended gun trade-ins as a way to save tax dollars.

Dealers discount the cost of new guns when old ones are traded in. Sometimes the discount is deep enough to entirely cover the cost of the new guns. This is especially true when departments trade in guns with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Congress banned the manufacture of such magazines in 1994, but allowed existing magazines to be resold.

Atlantic City Public Safety Director Robert Flipping said with so many guns legally available, destroying used police guns wouldn't make it any harder for anyone to buy a gun.

"If a person is going to legitimately buy a gun and then use it in a crime, it doesn't matter if it was (originally) one of our guns," Flipping said. "The person would have purchased a different gun."

Atlantic City police traded in 460 guns between 1985 and 2000; eight were believed to have been used in crimes, according to ATF records.

Rethinking policies

Over the last 20 years, many police officials decided their officers needed more firepower to counter the sophisticated weaponry carried by gangs and drug dealers. Many officers used revolvers that held six bullets, while the criminals' guns had magazines that held 15 or more rounds.

Many cities might not have been able to afford more powerful guns for their police without the discounts provided through trade-ins.

After a few years, though, when police wanted to again upgrade their guns, those higher-capacity guns were traded in to dealers who resold them. In April 1992, Union Township in Union County traded in 28 machine guns. Ironically, among the former police guns used in crimes, many were confiscated from people charged with drug offenses.

For example, a loaded 9 mm Beretta that originated with the Woodbridge Police Department was taken from drug dealers arrested in Hyattsville, Md., in January 1999.

Uneasy over crimes committed with former police guns, some departments have financially bit the bullet and have foregone the discounts that come with trades.

After The Press asked about the practice, Trenton Police Director Joseph Santiago decided his department will no longer trade in used weapons. Since 1985, Trenton had traded in nearly 400 guns, 13 of which were used in crimes. In the future, the guns will be offered to police officers to buy or will be destroyed, Santiago said.

Eighteen months ago, when the N.J. State Police purchased new guns, former Attorney General John Farmer decided not to let the old guns back onto the market.

More than 3,000 former State Police guns are being warehoused in a state-owned building somewhere in New Jersey until they are melted down.

The no-trade policy, however, didn't extend to all of state government - at least until The Press asked why the State Police banned the practice while the Department of Corrections would soon trade guns in. After consulting with Gov. James E. McGreevey, Corrections Commissioner Devon Brown decided to stop future gun trade-ins.

"The governor clearly believes that no barter can offset the price of crime," Corrections spokesman Chris Carden said.

As a result of Press inquiries, McGreevey spokesman Micah Rasmussen said, the attorney general is developing a no-trade policy for all state agencies that use weapons. It won't affect local and county agencies, but look for the governor to announce an end to state weapons trade-ins any day.

To e-mail Michael Diamond at The Press:

[email protected]

To e-mail John Froonjian at The Press:

[email protected]
 
If they are so concerned about "weapons on the street", they why arm the police?

Police officers should immediately turn in their weapons for coupons for ice cream and popcorn. Send them to me. For some unknown reason, guns do not cause crime a few states away from New Jersey.;)
 
"The state requires all guns confiscated from criminals to be destroyed."

Uh, what about guns reported as stolen? Do they even bother with trying to return them to the rightful owners?

If I had a break in, and my guns were stollen and I reported it... then I found out that the cops recovered my guns - only to destroy them - I would be super pissed and would sue the crap out of them.
 
Those evil terrible malicious crime-causing guns sure do get around a lot, don't they?

I guess those guns cause so much trouble in New Jersey, there's no time left over for the police to trouble themselves about criminals.
 
I was going to say "retards", but that would be disrespectful to people who are actually retarded.
 
In 1996, a Trenton police gun was among a number of guns seized from the car of a man charged with killing a 17-year-old boy in a drive-by shooting near Nashville.
And we've been told for so long that the flow of guns was one-way:

From the evil dealers of the South to the set-upon victims of the North.

Facts are a bitch, eh?
 
With less fanfare 10 months earlier, authorities in Baltimore had made a drug arrest and seized a sub-machine gun. That weapon was allowed to go on the market by the city of Newark, according to records from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or ATF.

Ah.......excuse me?

Since when did any police department sell full auto to private citizens?

Especially the ones up North?

Doesn't pass the smell test. :scrutiny:
 
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1050905677292490.xml
Good intentions go awry in police gun trade-ins Survey shows pistols exchanged for new ones got used in crimes

Monday, April 21, 2003

Associated Press

While cities like Camden and Newark sue firearm manufacturers over the cost of gun violence, some of those same cities continue to trade in used police guns to dealers that sell them over the counter, according to a published report.

In some cases, those guns have been used to commit the types of violent crimes the lawsuits hope to address, The Press of Atlantic City reported yesterday.

New Jersey law-enforcement agencies traded in almost 12,000 weapons between 1985 and 2000, according to the newspaper's analysis of records from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

The review found that more than 100 of those guns were used to commit crimes. Guns originally owned by New Jersey police departments were used in murders in Florida and Puerto Rico, and two were used in suicides.

Newark Mayor Sharpe James announced in 1999 that the city would sue gun manufacturers. Newark has provided more than 1,500 firearms to gun dealers during the years examined by The Press.

Many New Jersey cities have gun buyback programs designed to take the firearms off the street. But many of those same cities trade in hundreds of police guns to dealers for resale.

One exception is Essex County, where Sheriff Armando Fountoura, a former Newark policeman, ordered 432 guns melted down. His department could have saved $80,000 by trading in the old weapons.

"There are too many guns out there," Fountoura said. "The last thing I'm going to do is put more of them on the street ... Someday, a police gun is going to be used to kill a police officer."

When police departments purchase new guns, gun dealers offer discounts when old guns are traded in. These discounts are sometimes substantial, and can cover the entire cost of the new guns.

Without the discounts, some cities might not be able to afford the more powerful guns their officers now carry to counter the sophisticated weaponry carried by criminals.

Atlantic City Public Safety Director Robert Flipping said destroying police guns wouldn't make it any harder for potential criminals to buy a gun.

"If a person is going to legitimately buy a gun and then use it in a crime, it doesn't matter if it was (originally) one of our guns," he said. "The person would have purchased a different gun."

Trenton Police Director Joseph Santiago told The Press that his department would no longer trade in used weapons. Instead, they'll be destroyed or offered to police officers to buy.

The New Jersey State Police has warehoused more than 3,000 former State Police guns that will eventually be melted down.

According to a spokesman for Gov. James E. McGreevey, the state is developing a no-trade policy for all state agencies that use weapons.

Copyright 2003 The Star-Ledger.
 
Since when did any police department sell full auto to private citizens?

Especially the ones up North?

It might be a case of reporter ignorance. The last time I saw a copy of the AP Stylebook (mid '90s), its section on guns said that the terms "automatic" and "semiautomatic" meant the same thing and could be used interchnageably.
 
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