New LEO National Concealed Carry Law Questions ?????????

[David]

There is a brand new law (I think it was signed into law just a few days ago) in reference to LEO National Concealed Carry .........

S. 1132 ......... The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act Improvements

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-1132

Question 1 ... If I already have a Florida CCW License, what would the advantages (if any) of carrying under the new S. 1132 LEO National Concealed Carry Law vs Florida state law if I am retired law enforcement ?????????

Question 2 ... Does anyone know of any place (a law enforcement agency or qualified private instructor) where I can get the required firearms qualification needed under S. 1132 in the Orlando (Central Florida) area ?????????

Thanks and I look forward to all your comments .........

 

[Steve in PA]

Its not a new law, just amendments to the original law signed by then President Bush in 2004.

If you are qualified under LEOSA, you can carry in all 50 States, unlike under your FLA CCW which has limited reciprocity.

Your first hurdle is getting a retired ID card from your agency. Many do not issue such cards, or are dragging their heels in issuing them.

 

[tackleberi]

The FOP website has an excellent "FAQ" on the nuts and bolts of the new law you should take a peek at.

 

[dogrunner]

Advantages? Well for starters you are exempt from various state laws that require notification if stopped. You are exempt from several restrictions in place in Florida...ie: sporting events, polling places etc....You ARE bound by the requirement in the Federal law that mandates you not be intoxicated while armed (under Florida law one can be falling down drunk, armed and legal as long as that gun is not in your hand). You also don't have to carry the thing in a holster as per Ga. law, nor are you prohibited from using rest stop area facilities while armed with your CCW lic. as is the law in some states!

If you travel on the eastern seaboard you are exempt from the HP ammo prohibition that NJ has in effect.

If you review the modifications it also exempts any firearm or ammo not prohibited as an NFA piece and that means that even tho outlawed in jurisdictions such as Cal. if you could qualify with one of their described assault weapons you, under LEOSA, are exempt from their law!

You might want to check out the Calguns net for some interesting discussion on the issue.....

Some debate exists as to wether or not hi cap mags are included in the exemption issue.........my take is that they're an integral part of the gun and ought to be, but likely it'd take a court case and judgement to really clear that up. Truly, the INTENT of the legislation was to forego the petty restrictions incorporated under some state statutes that hampered the effectiveness of the law.

Meant to mention possible qualification options. I know that the Volusia Co. SO has offered qualification opportunities....Several of the local agencys do as well. Suggest you make a personal contact with your ID in hand to see if they'll accomodate you.

 

[janedoedad]

You also don't have to carry the thing in a holster as per Ga. law,

No longer a requirement in Georgia. SB308

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Man, what I wouldn't give to get a hold of that law and replace "Law Enforcement Officer" with "Citizen".

 

[Dimis]

Man, what I wouldn't give to get a hold of that law and replace "Law Enforcement Officer" with "Citizen".

+1 Thats the way it should be

 

[jon_in_wv]

Amen. I've been carrying under LEOSA since 2004. While I agree its not a fair law and I honestly believe that ALL citizens should have the same right, I think it also provides a strong argument against the antis who cried bloody murder when LEOSA was passed they claimed blood would flow in the streets if people, even LEOs, were allowed to carry firearms. The only think that has happened with the passage of LEOSA and CCW laws throughout the country is that the streets are safer than ever.

 

[dogrunner]

Me too, Jon. Hopefully the experience with LEOSA and the positive results we've seen in our courts will tip the balance to where it should be.

By the way, W.va is my old home State,fifty years long gone tho.....do try to make it up for buck season every Nov..

That last brings to mind that W.va is a sterling example of just how citizens CAN regain control of negative conditions. W.va, for those of you that might not know, reclaimed its 2nd amendment rights thru both a State constitutional amendment, a legal challenge, and citizen pressure brought about a reasonable and fair CCW & open carry law.

Prior to that change unless one was politically connected any sort of carry was extremely restricted and easily as tight as areas in New York, possibly N.J......among other requirements one had to post a newspaper notice of application, post a several thousand dollar bond and achieve judicial approval.............RARELY given. It was even illegal in the 50's to casually take one's .22 pistol to a creek bed to shoot cans or snakes unless licensed. Those circumstances began as a direct result of the labor strife in the early years of the 20th century. As I recall, first offense for illegal carry was a misdemeanor, then it progressed to felony status......all that was swept aside due to a court challenge that was successfully appealed to the State Supreme Ct..........further action removed the issuance from the judiciary and placed it in the hands of an elected Sheriff as a direct consequence of judicial footdragging.

That's a story that's not too well known, and a lot of thanks is owed to the 80 plus percent of West Virginians that voted for that amendment........rather surprising tho that such was left out of the 1863 Constitution given that the balance of the document is just a mirror of the Old Dominion!.....................Anyway Jon, good show!

 

[archigos]

Federal law that mandates you not be intoxicated while armed

There's a federal law that mandates you not be "intoxicated" while armed?

 

[brboyer]

There's a federal law that mandates you not be "intoxicated" while armed?

Yeah, LEOSA itself does not apply to an individual under the influence.

 

[Steve in PA]

There is no standard for "under the influence" for LEOSA.

Having one or two drinks does not disqualify you from LEOSA.

Just as having one or two drinks doesn't mean you are automatically charged with DUI.

The officers that got into the fight with those bikers in South Dakota were, if I remember correctly......in a bar. That doesn't mean they were drinking, and I'd have to dig up the articles I have, but unless your intoxication is to the point where you could end up being arrested, I don't think you will have a problem.

If your an off-duty officer from state "X", you can drink.......but because your an out of state LEO from state "Y", you can't?

 

[archigos]

Yeah, LEOSA itself does not apply to an individual under the influence.

Ah. I got tripped up by the phrasing of the original post I referenced. I'm just a citizen, so LEOSA doesn't really pertain to me.

 

[brboyer]

There is no standard for "under the influence" for LEOSA.
Having one or two drinks does not disqualify you from LEOSA.

Just as having one or two drinks doesn't mean you are automatically charged with DUI.

The officers that got into the fight with those bikers in South Dakota were, if I remember correctly......in a bar. That doesn't mean they were drinking, and I'd have to dig up the articles I have, but unless your intoxication is to the point where you could end up being arrested, I don't think you will have a problem.

If your an off-duty officer from state "X", you can drink.......but because your an out of state LEO from state "Y", you can't?

Correct, so it is left to the discretion of the local LEO/prosecutors.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Steve, Not all states allow carry while intoxicated. In fact MOST do not. Pa does so I see your confusion. Some have 0.00 rule in effect while CCW. Others have it pretty much equal to driving rules. I can see this argument stirring up yet again about "drinking while carrying"

 

[brboyer]

Steve, Not all states allow carry while intoxicated. In fact MOST do not. Pa does so I see your confusion. Some have 0.00 rule in effect while CCW. Others have it pretty much equal to driving rules. I can see this argument stirring up yet again about "drinking while carrying"

And some, like Florida, have no restrictions on drinking while carrying - as it should be.

Now if you are impaired and fire the firearm or have it in your hand (not in a self defense situation) you are going to have a problem.

 

[brboyer]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Shall we get back on topic now?

 

[rscalzo]

Yeah, LEOSA itself does not apply to an individual under the influence.

Yes, it does. however it has been correctly stated that no limits have been set although I would expect .08 BAC would be the standard.

(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance;

You are exempt from several restrictions in place in Florida...ie: sporting events, polling places etc

No, you are not exempt.

Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--
`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.


The major areas simply cleared up language for Federal officers and the ability to qualify in the home state or state retired from; Ammunition restrictions were lifted but magazine capacity still follows state restriction.

 

[brboyer]

Yes, it does. however it has been correctly stated that no limits have been set although I would expect .08 BAC would be the standard.

(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance;

You are exempt from several restrictions in place in Florida...ie: sporting events, polling places etc.

No, you are not exempt.

Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--
`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.


The major areas simply cleared up language for Federal officers and the ability to qualify in the home state or state retired from; Ammunition restrictions were lifted but magazine capacity still follows state restriction.

I would expect .08 BAC would be the standard.

Why would you expect any such completely arbitrary standard?
The limits are based on local firearm possession and BAC laws.

Apparently you did not understand this quote:

You are exempt from several restrictions in place in Florida...ie: sporting events, polling places etc.

as it relates to LEOSA.

In Florida, under LEOSA a retired LEO (that meets the requirements) may carry into polling places, professional or school sporting events, bars, police stations, schools, non-secure areas of airports, etc.

 

[dogrunner]

RSCALZO:

You need to more carefully review that law. Relative to the situation in Florida, one merely licensed to CCW may not pack in a bar, sporting event or polling place. Under LEOSA, unless some factor in LEOSA merits it, one may generally ignore those prohibitions. An example of that'd be carrying into a Gov't building or prohibited park area, as is specified in LEOSA. Now, if that retired or active officer carried into one of the specifically prohibited areas he would not enjoy LEOSA protection.

Most Gov't (State) property in Florida carries no State prohibition, with limited exceptions: police departments, FHP Stations, schools and meetings of Govt bodies .........at all of these, a LEOSA carrier would not enjoy the protection of the exemptions...........Beyond those sort of examples, the protection level is pretty broad. Far as parks go, weapons carriage is clearly permitted throughout the entire State and local systems and even our foot dragging FWC has acceded to carriage on wildlife management areas!

And by the way, relative to the hi-cap mag issue, I stand on my call that if one was to be charged with such a violation it's a clear cut route to one's defense that the INTENT of Congress to EXEMPT ANY non NFA specified weapon from prohibition.........clearly stated and quite unambiguous!

Shoulda mentioned additionally that the private property prohibition under LEOSA as applied in Florida is problematic as can be. Signage in FLorida carries utterly no force, therefor for someone to be charged with trespass in most instances, with limited exception, one must be first told to leave. If that weapon's concealed in the first place then the issue is moot. There is NO Texas style .3006 law hereabouts, now what your local law might be in N.H., I don't know. I DO know Florida law tho! Oh, yeah. That .08 percentile BAC level you reference is not entirely universal, some potential violations in FLorida require a higher reading as well.

 

[Art Eatman]

The boozers and the anti-boozers should feel free to take it to PM or email or choose up sides and smell armpits...

Eeeeeeeeeenuff.