New loader with a 45ACP OAL question

[TurboFC3S]

Hello all, I joined here because the reloading group seems much more rounded than those on ar15.com ... no offense to them.

Anyway, I did my first batch of 45ACP tonight. In my Speer #13 and Lyman #48 manuals I noticed a huge variance of listed OAL for different bullets used. There were lengths listed anywhere from 1.135 to 1.275.

I'm using Berrys 185gr flat nose for these loads, and from what I gathered they say to reference loads using bullets with the same shoulder profile, weight, and length. The closest match I thought was a 185gr Jacketed HP listed in the Lyman. It lists a 1.175" OAL, and a starting load of Power Pistol at 7.4gr.

What I went with was 1.190" OAL and 7.5gr of Power Pistol, using Winchester Large primers. I also crimped with my Hornady dies to .470". Just FYI it's brand new Starline nickel coated brass, and I'm flaring the case as little as possible before seating the bullet.

My question is, am I doing this right? Why so much variance in OAL's listed for 45ACP? And how do I choose the right OAL in the future for bullets I can't find listings for in a manual?

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to being active here!

 

[trickyasafox]

OAL varies a lot in many auto cartridges. the 45acp may get a very wide range due to the plethora of weights the cartridge can handle, as well as the variety of firearms used. Obviously 45acp revolvers can handle longer OALs, some 1911s can be very picky, and a variety of other differences.

My rule of thumb is to load as long as I can get reliable functioning. I unfortunately do not use the bullet you listed, so I do not have an OAL I can recommend you.

 

[Steve C]

I've seated all my FP bullets like this with the case mouth barely below the start of the bullet taper. Make sure to check them in your barrel (removed from your pistol of course) to make sure they chamber fully and properly. If these bullets and any others with a sharp shoulder are seated too far out they can engage the rifling prematurely and cause the slide to not close fully. The picture happens to be a 200gr Ranier but the principle is the same.

 

[MMCSRET]

my 45 autos must be very forgiving!!!!!! I load long enough that they fit in the magazine and they work!!!!I shoot 155 gr. swc w/ very sharp shoulder all the way up to 250 gr. rnfp cowboy bullets. I have never worried about AOL because I know I am Longer than.

 

[TurboFC3S]

I appreciate the replies, but I still don't feel like I have the answer of if I'm safe with what I'm doing. And what are the rules for choosing OAL in 45ACP?

 

[rcmodel]

OAL with different semi-auto bullet profiles has more to do with getting them to feed or not then anything else.

The published OAL is telling you it was safe, fit in the magazine, fit in the chamber, and functioned properly in the test gun they used.

Your starting load should be perfectly safe, although I didn't look it up and check it myself.

Berry Plated Bullets should end up using a mid-level jacketed bullet powder charge for the same weight & shape conventional jacketed bullet.

rcmodel

 

[SDefender]

I have some Berry's 185 FN like what you are referencing. I set my COAL to ~1.2" since my CCI brass cases do not have enough neck tension to allow for any longer length without having bullet setback.

And the other replies you received are correct.

The best thing to do is make up some dummy rounds (no powder or primer) until you are comfortable with what you are doing.

The COAL depends upon a combination of things, primarily proper feeding from the mag to the chamber and case pressure, since the less volume in a case, potentially the higher the pressure. This is why bullet setback can be so devastating in an autoloading pistol.

You will probably never find perfect agreement with published loads for any cartridge. When you do a comparison, pick one that seems to meet your powder needs and use that COAL. Actually I add some more length to mine. Work up from the starting load slowly, do all your procedures correctly and all should be well.

And if you want to provide yourself some insurance and peace of mind, just increase the COAL, which if anything will cause a decrease in pressure and may increase the accuracy. Just be sure it will feed properly in your gun and ensure the bullet holds tight in the case.

To pretty much ensure bullet setback is not a concern, take all the loaded cartridges, measure the COAL and one at a time press the bullet against a piece of wood (bench) using double thumb pressure on the other end of the case. About 50# pressure is what I have seen recommended most often. Then measure the COAL afterwards. If it is approx.the same, all is probably well.

Then cycle a few in your pistol and measure again. Cycling more than a couple times will probably cause progressively shorter COALs. See how yours reacts.

 

[rcmodel]

If you do decide to load truncated cone shape bullets longer then the listed OAL, chamber check some of them in your barrel to make sure they will chamber freely without jamming the bullet shoulder into the rifling leade.

That will increase pressure as much or more then deeper seating, if your gun will even go into battery.

rcmodel

 

[TurboFC3S]

Alright, thanks guys! That was the info I was hoping for. I had a fellow reloader, kind of an old-timer, tell me that all he worries about with 45acp is wheter it'll chamber and if he has enough bullet depth for good neck tension. When I asked him if my OAL was too shallow and may cause a pressure spike he didn't know the answer, which is why I posted here. It sounds like I'll be ok, I did go on the low side with the powder charge ...

It was just the wide range of listed OAL's in manuals that threw me for a loop. I started with 10mm and listed OAL's for it are a much tighter range.

One caliber at a time ... next up is a rifle cartridge, probably going to start with 6.8 SPC.

I'm trying to establish good habits from the beginning. I pull every case out of turret 1 after seating the primer to verify proper depth, and when setting the primer I give it one push, then rotate 180 degrees and set again. Every case when it pops out of turret 4 from my Dillon 550, I give it a visual/feel check by hand, then drop it in a case gauge. After a cartridge goes through the powder charge I shine a flashlight down in the case to visually check powder level. And so far I've been checking randomly probably 1/4 of the finished cartridges with calipers and weighing them individually.

Maybe overkill, but safety trumps all for me at this point.

 

[Walkalong]

I noticed a huge variance of listed OAL for different bullets used. There were lengths listed anywhere from 1.135 to 1.275.

Try the flat stem in your seater and you may find your O.A.L. varience will go down with that bullet.

 

[BWB]

One more way of looking at this is that many sources of loading data publish either an OAL figure or a minimum OAL for their loads. Either way, if you seat to that depth or shallower you will not be raising pressure, assuming you're not so long as to be seating the bullet hard into the rifling. Frankly, I doubt you could do that with any normal bullet and still feed from the magazine.
Then, as someone said, it becomes a matter of reliable feeding. Sometimes adjusting the seating depth can help with that. Usually longer cartridges feed better because the angles are decreased for the rather violent passage from mag to chamber, but it's dangerous to generalize about such things.

 

[rcmodel]

Frankly, I doubt you could do that with any normal bullet and still feed from the magazine.

It's actually quite easily done with any number of new guns.

And many older guns were throated with a short leade because all there was then was FMJ-RN ammo.

SIG for one has very little leade cut in front of their chambers.

Match grade 1911's are notorious for it unless they have a long leade cut with a special reamer.

Never overlook checking it in your gun when using TC or SWC style bullets.
Even some JHP designs, like the Hornady XTP will do it too if seated too long.

rcmodel

 

[chbrow10]

I reload 185 grain Berry's bullets, here's what I do

Like you, I had lots of questions about what should the OAL be, I'm sure if you search on my name, you'll find the threads that I started when I had the exact same questions as you.

I have reloaded 3 different types of Berry's plated bullets (200 gr round shoulder and hollow point, and 185 grain round nose) and have found the trick that leads to light recoil, reliability, and accuracy, which are my goals for reloading. That trick is to use the minimum charge and the minimum OAL, while carefully watching for signs of over pressure due to the short OAL. The accuracy gets worse as charge is increased, at least in my gun. I couldn't find published data for Berry's bullets, so I had to do a little careful experimenting, which you will have do as well.

I shoot a 1911 clone (RIA Tactical) and use Clay's powder, and CCi primers. I had to use the minimum OAL to get these to feed in my 1911, and not prematurly engage the rifling as someone mentioned above. I had that happen, and boy was it messy.

If your goals are different then mine, or if you shoot a different gun (one that will eat anything fed to it), then you might want to find your own path, just watch for signs of overpressure.

safe shooting

 

[32winspl]

Ok, regarding .45acp seating depth and cartridge overall length I'm going to give you my method. By now, I'm sure you know that the round headspaces on the mouth. So yes, there is the interplay between col, and where you have your taper-crimp set. Again, I'm only talking about the .45acp round. I've never loaded copper-jacketed rounds; only 200 grain semi-wadcutters. To start with, I go by the col. and then I adjusted the taper-crimp die. I took the barrel out of my 1911 and adjusted the seating depth and crimp until the loaded round dropped into the chamber of my barrel and was flush with the top of the chamber extension. Gees, without my having a camera, you may have no idea of what I'm talking about. Hell, just forget this entry.

 

[Sunray]

"...the rules for choosing OAL in 45ACP?..." They have to fit in the mag first and foremost. Then just follow you manual religiously and you'll be fine.
32winspl, makes perfect sense to me. Load the ammo and use the barrel's chamber as a case length guage. If a loaded round won't just drop in the chamber properly, it won't work when shooting either. Works for high priced jacketed bullets and any cartridge too.
"...couldn't find published data for Berry's bullets..." Load for the bullet weight and cast or jacketed. Who made the bullet doesn't matter. Sounds like you may need to chamfer the feed ramp though. Use a fine jeweler's file to extend the feed ramp about half way up the sides of the chamber, then polish smooth. Easier to do than it sounds.

 

[mattw]

Not to hijack the thread, but I am having similar concerns about 45ACP OAL also. A what point do I need to worry about a pressure spike due to bullet setback? How can I tell if I am seating the bullet too far into the case?

I'm using Oregon Trails 230gr LRN bullets and 4 grains of bullseye. I'm getting cartridge overall lengths between 1.265 and 1.275. Is this safe?

 

[jfh]

Again--the guiding principle for LOAs for .45ACP is to set the length so that

1. The round fits and feeds in the magazine smoothly; and

2. The round chambers correctly.

Having said that, it may be necessary to tweak your round LOA "slightly" to ensure reliable feeding if there are no related problems such as a poorly-throated barrel, rough feed ramp, dirty chamber, etc., etc.

Issues of, for example, potential pressure spikes related to setback are symptoms of poor reloading assembly techniques / settings--e.g., not enough crimp; these are not a criteria of LOA for the cartridge.

If your recipe uses a charge published by a component manufacturer, and the bullet you are using has the same-or-less nominal seated depth in the case as the bullet used in the published data, then you should be good to go.

Jim H.

 

[243winxb]

Maximum Overall Length for a loaded round in 45ACP is 1.275" If the round will not chamber or the Bullet hits the rifling and the action don"t close, then just seat the bullet deeper till the action closes.