New PSL?

[Shrinkmd]

Check out thishttp://ioinc.us/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IO&Product_Code=ROMA0001&Category_Code=Long+Guns

Interesting that they say you're not supposed to shoot surplus ammo in it. Duh, like some people don't know how to clean out a gas system and barrel after shooting corrosive. Guess not.

Uh, why would you want one of these if you were going to shoot new ammo in it? Wouldn't you just get an AR-10 and shoot Prvi .308 if you wanted a "new" 30 cal semi auto? Just a quick reality check, but I though the whole point of 7.62x54R was that it was cheap! Well, even the barnaul new production is $300 per case, not 5 or 600, eh?

I guess I'll stick to my 91/30...

 

[Hoppy590]

but I though the whole point of 7.62x54R

maybe. if you choose guns on calibers. but based on that, might as well get .22 LR.

price isnt always a factor. design, build, novelty etc all contribute

id buy a new 1903 colt pocket over any techno wonder plastic fantastic any day
design, nostalga ( me being born in 86 haha)

 

[yesit'sloaded]

The cool thing about 7.62x54r is that it is headspaced off the rim, rather than the shoulder IIRC. I want to start reloading for it soon and just ordered 300 brass cases. Is using a .308 bullet any good or do I need to stick with .310 or .311?

 

[Vaarok]

The reason why is all the people putting 180gr yellow-tip ammo through a rifle with a gas system timed and meant to only shoot 147gr silvertip .

The ripping the recievers apart as a result makes the company look bad, and explaining it to Bubba and Mall Ninja takes too much effort. Better to put up a big ol' lawyer disclaimer.

 

[Hoppy590]

308 bullet any good or do I need to stick with .310 or .311?

id stick to .310- .311 commie guns are like that.

 

[jpwilly]

Interesting that they say you're not supposed to shoot surplus ammo in it. Duh, like some people don't know how to clean out a gas system and barrel after shooting corrosive. Guess not.

I had to check this out for myself and found that you didn't finish reading the disclaimer yourself prior to posting...I'll save everyone the time, here it is:

It has been determined that the use of old military surplus ammunition in the SSG rifle may cause malfunctions and damage to this rifle.

Therefore, the use of any ammunition without a commercial headstamp or the use of any reloaded ammunition will void the manufacturer's warranty. Repairs on such rifles will be at the owner's expense. If I.O. cannot repair the rifle, it will be returned to the owner.

For best results, I.O. recommends the exclusive use of 7.62x54R cartridges with 148-grain bullet or .308 Winchester cartridges loaded to 146-grain NATO M80 Ball specification, as appropriate. The use of heavier bullets may cause extraction, ejection, and feeding problems in the SSG.

They are advising customer to use only ammo known to be light ball and NOT to use Heavy Ball mil surp...Maybe before you post attemping to bash a rifle or ammo you should check your facts.

 

[Hoppy590]

7.62x54R cartridges with 148-grain bullet or .308 Winchester cartridges loaded to 146-grain NATO M80 Ball specification, as appropriate.

WHAT?!

maybe i missed if they offer a 7.62x51 version. but a nonrimmed round in a rimed designed rifle!?! ***!?

 

[siglite]

I saw that too, Hoppy, and was damn confused by it.

 

[jpwilly]

They should correct that part of the disclaimer to read 308 bullets not cartridges...I've loaded 7.62x54R with 308 bullets with good results.

 

[Shrinkmd]

I did read the whole disclaimer. I know they are sort of hinting that you can use silvertip or other light ball surplus when you are SURE it is light ball. But you could imagine what customers were saying when their brand new 900 rifle (as opposed to 100 mosin) rusted out after a happy day at the range. Or, if you used heavy ball, you could blow apart the receiver and rust it out.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Mosins are safe to shoot heavy ball in right? Right?

 

[Hoppy590]

Mosins are safe to shoot heavy ball in right? Right?

yes. some rifles like heavy ball, some rifles like light ball. but all will hanndle both

 

[jwxspoon]

Heh, you know you've been bitten by the milsurp bug when 2 cans of ammo come in and you and your kids spend an evening delinking Bulgarian Heavy Ball.

jw

 

[Ash]

7.62x54R cartridges with 148-grain bullet or .308 Winchester cartridges loaded to 146-grain NATO M80 Ball specification, as appropriate.

They have offered a 308 version of their SSG-97, which is the reason for the statement. The only problem I have with the whole thing is that one of the more common commercial rounds is the 204 grain Barnaul soft-points which are heavier than any surplus ammo. Plus, the S&B soft points are 180 grain. Indeed, the vast majority of soft-point ammo is too heavy (but is commercial). If it is bullet weight, they aren't solving the problem with commercial ammo.

Ash

 

[Vaarok]

Yeah, there's a version of the PSL is chambered in 7.62x51. It's called the SSG-97.

The main reason for the problem is the powder burn rate, same as an M-1. Since the PSL uses a very crude simple AK-style gas system that vents a lot of gas into a leaky cylinder for operation, rounds loaded with a lot more powder or higher pressure powders tend to screw them up. For what it's worth, I've heard of many people using the Barnaul 205gr and saying that it works well because it's either loaded light or with a different powder than many other heavy loads.

 

[jerkface11]

Hoppy590
Quote:
308 bullet any good or do I need to stick with .310 or .311?
id stick to .310- .311 commie guns are like that.

Try some .308 bullets they don't always shoot poorly out of a .310 bore velocity will be lower though.

 

[stubbicatt]

I've posted elsewhere on this topic, and since I had a KABOOM with my PSL using Czech light ball, I would caution you fellas against using milsurp ammo. It is my educated guess that the vagaries in the dimensions of some milsurp ammo caused my rifle not to chamber the round fully, and had an out of battery discharge.

If you choose to shoot milsurp, take the time to be certain that each round you put in the magazine will go all the way into the chamber without resistance.

My two cents worth.

One view of the exploded case head:


Had to throw away the boxers. Left pinch marks on the steel seat I was on when this happened.

 

[elmerfudd]

What kind of Czech ammo was it that you had the kaboom with? I buddy of mine had a kaboom just a couple of weeks ago with Czech ammo. The stuff he's got is copperwashed. I've been shooting silver tip with no problems, but the copper washed Czech ammo he's got seems to be much hotter.

 

[Nightcrawler]

They do make a PSL in .308 Winchester.

Personally, though? I'd sooner get a 21" Saiga .308. The Saiga .308 is, of course, a long action AK. But then again, so is the PSL. The PSL is NOT an SVD; it was produced in countries (Romania and some Middle Eastern places I believe) where the machining required to produce an SVD made it too complicated to produce.

I doubt a Saiga .308 will be less accurate. They certainly seem nicer than the Romanian guns, and have stocks that a lefty like me can actually use. Plus they cost a couple hundred bucks less.

 

[Acheron]

I've heard some bad things about PSLs (namely that they go kaboom). If you're looking for a SVD, get a Tigr. It actually is a SVD internally (not a AK/RPK) and was designed by Evgeny Dragunov in the '70s as a hunting rifle. They're harder to find than the PSLs, but are typically in the same price range (more or less).

 

[Ash]

Tigr's are not in the same price range, but rather twice and higher than the PSL. The differences between the SVD and PSL are significant, but in the chamber these differences melt away.

Ash

 

[Nightcrawler]

They're harder to find than the PSLs, but are typically in the same price range (more or less).

Not quite. PSL rifles are in the $700-800 range. A Tigr, if you can find one, will run in the $1,500-2000 range, since they're not imported anymore. For that price? Practically, you're better off with a DPMS LR-308. You can get one for $1100 and it'll be more accurate. Very different design philosophy behind it though.

Interesting note: The Russians have taken the Tigr-9, a medium bore hunting rifle chambered for the 9.3x64mm Brenneke round, and have issued it in military format as the SVDK. The idea is to have a sniper rifle in a heavier, harder-hitting, armor-piercing round that can defeat modern body armor.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

They should correct that part of the disclaimer to read 308 bullets not cartridges...I've loaded 7.62x54R with 308 bullets with good results.

WHAT?!

maybe i missed if they offer a 7.62x51 version. but a nonrimmed round in a rimed designed rifle!?! ***!?

I.O. offers the "SSG" line (its a PSL-54) In both 7.62x54r AND 7.62x51/.308 Nato, currently they offer versions both with the orriginal PSL-54c type wood thumbhole furnature, and one with a pistol grip and polymer RPK type stock but both use the same rec/gas system, just diffrent stocks, handguards, bolts barells and magazines to match the diffrent models and rounds.

The problem with the timing is all powder burn rate/pressure wave details, and is then complicated by the crappy case construction of most of the stuff with the offending flatter pressure waves (aka the bulgarian heavy ball) which is sometimes depending on how bad the lot is, doing all it can to not blow up a mosin. Throw in an overly violent yanking on the case head/rim or a failure to fall into full battery in the first place and now theres a big, noticeable, potentially bad problem.

The saiga and .308 PSL's are the same gas system and one round would not act screwey in one and not the other, its with the x54r that the flaw really gets a chance to shine.