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Catpop

Catpop

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Got a very good friend that called me the other day. Seems he had bought a Lee 1000 or something like that (without my input and he knows I reload; and on the advice of his fellow workers that reload).
He stated he thought he was seating the bullet (9mm) too deep int the case. It didn't look right to him and he was trying to figure out how to adjust it.
I asked him what his COAL was - His what?
I asked him how much powder was he using - Whatever the auto disk number called for.
I asked him if he had a powder scale - do I need one?
My advice to him was to NOT SHOOT anything he had loaded so far! I OR one of his fellow workers should come by and check his progress. Bullet depth, as well as grains of powder have a direct effect on chamber pressure!
QUESTION: Being unfamiliar with a Lee auto disk powder measure, my question is: Should one trust the auto measure without a scale to back it up?
 
Do not trust the auto disk to throw what the chart says it will throw. Check it with a scale.

I've used the Lee auto disk for years and I don't know if I've ever seen it throw what their chart says it will throw. It's not that it's always dangerously off...it's just that its off...and I want to know exactly what I'm dropping into that case.

I've started to make my own chart for each powder I use.
 
I tend to get my load data from other sources than my lee books ,so I try what looks close and work my way up or down , tell I find the right charge , so I always check with a scale, because that is how I set up my Lee disk measure

what powder is he using ? the disks work great with ball powder but not so good with flake powders , so much so I weigh all my loads using flake powder , but with ball powder ,set up and go , it's a great measure with the right powder,
 
I have 3 Pro 1000 systems

All of them drop Just a Bit different than the other.... Usualy less than what the Lee Disk says it SHould be at... thus the NEED to weight to determine what it REALLY is dropping

Your FRIEND needs some Guidance for sure.....
 
One notable powder, unique is not close to what the chart tells you. lower loads are a good half grain up and the .52cc disk is a whole grain lower than what it says on the charts.

I like hp38/win231 because the cc's on the disk correlate with the powder weight, some 1.g under. .30 weighs 3.0gr, .34 weighs 3.4, .43 weighs 4.35-4.4, so on and so forth up until .72... atleast for me, may be different for others, I modified my hopper by slicing off a thin layer of plastic so there is a very flush fit with the disk for no leakage...


Id say save him a couple fingers and have him buy a book and read it, then go over there and help show him everything from setting up the dies to testing out your samples to find the right load.
 
From what i'm reading here, Lee has purposely set the disk to throw just under or somewhere below actual, depending on the powder. Smart from the liability standpoint. Hence, even though probably safe, you never actually know what grains are delivering the best accuracy. Anal as I am, this would drive me bonkers!
Thanks for the input.
By the way, he is using RD.
 
I don't trust any measuring device without a scale (or two) to verify the accuracy of the throw or drop from time to time. If, you are too lazy or lack the common sense to recognize the wisdom of doing this, you shouldn't be reloading ammo.
 
The charge weight estimates Lee supplies is for what I can only imagine would be perfect powder packing. In other words, the charge weight estimate Lee gives is high by one to two cavities (i.e., to get the weight Lee calls out, you need to go to the next larger cavity or two). Thus, throwing the charge based on the Lee estimate will produce light loads and not unsafe over-charges.
However, any one who wants to go beyond very light target loads will need a balance to actually know what charge weight is being thrown.
Many folks loaded for decades with just powder scoops and fixed cavity powder measures and never had a balance. Many shotgunners still do. However, now there is no excuse not to have a decent balance as they don't cost that much.
 
Last edited:
A scale is a must for any reloader. Obviously your friend has not even read any loading manuals based on his responses to your questions. Have him buy and read several manuals before doing anything. If he doesn't want to take the time to learn the basics, he better not reload to protect himself and anyone shooting around him.
 
There was an article on a Self-Help/How-To board a while back describing in detail the steps required to reload ammunition.

It was mentioned on one of the forums I visit for its shock value and humor. Its "details" included how much gunpowder to use (fill the case) but left out choosing what powder to use. Note: I (and hopefully others) sent an alarm to the administrators of the site and the article was removed.

I mention this because your friend REALLY needs mentoring, if not in person or in a formal class, by self-education through carefully selected and vetted (but how?) instructional videos and reputable forums like this one, or TheFiringLine.com.

How to select reputable web sites? First, go to the web site owned, sponsored or administered by the equipment, powder or bullet manufacturers. They often have instructional sections. Anything else gained from the internet should be compared critically to these until the authors have proved themselves reliable. (For example, RCModel's posts are almost always spot-on, UncleNick on TheFiringLine.com is dead reliable and IOWEGAN on Rugerforum.net is iconic for his knowledge.)

My loading instruction (pre-internet days) consisted of six rounds (not six sessions, but six ROUNDS). My instructor loaded 3 while I watched and he narrated. I loaded 3 while he watched and answered any leftover questions. After that, it was books, experience and caution. Your friend at least showed some caution, asking about the length.

Knowing how many new loaders are out there (prompted no doubt by the rise in ammo prices and fall in ammo availability), your friend is not alone is his need for mentoring. Scary, this.

Your primary question: Should he trust the auto-disk without verifying with a scale? No. I don't even trust a scale without a backup scale (or check weights).

I suspect he called you rather than a co-worker because he does not want to appear foolish in front of people he has to work with. (Just my first guess - there are many other reasons, among which is his trust in you.)

It would be a blessing if you helped him out.

Lost Sheep
 
Being unfamiliar with a Lee auto disk powder measure, my question is: Should one trust the auto measure without a scale to back it up?
Click to expand...

Simple answer?

NO

Anyone who reloads without a scale deserves to lose their fingers, ears, and eyes for being STUPID,

and since you can't fix stupid..................................................:banghead:
 
Every time someone posts about whether or not it is OK to buy reloads from a stranger at a gun show.... I think of questions like THIS one.

There IS a reason for kabooms and freedom of choice, freedom to purchase and freedom to be an unsupervised idiot are right up there on the list.

Thankfully this other person has a friend smart enough to ask questions on a reloading forum. Ever wonder just how many mopes just buy various things and make ammo by guesstimate or trial and error?
 
Should one trust the auto measure without a scale to back it up?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't, but others may be overly pedantic and dramatic about the hazards. Assuming the charts are correct, and I think they are except for the precise yield numbers, the worst that could happen is the powder drop won't be precisely what you expected. Scales really serve to get you on to the right aperture number (cc) and the more precise yield in grains of powder.
 
heck no

The one powder I've used so far did not chart right. Had to go up a cell...


I don't even trust a scale without a backup scale (or check weights)
Click to expand...

I second that, but I'm still wet behind the ears myself.
 
I would personally never charge without using a scale to verify. Even when loading shot shells on my Mec. 600 Jr. I use a scale to determine what the powder bushing is throwing. And each time you use a different lot powder it is necessary to verify those charges too.

Seating depth for an AL is determined by using the barrel when removed from the firearm. I first determine where zero oal is, and then seat just deep enough to fit the magazine and feed realiably. Once you've made those determinations, use your dial caliper to measure, and then record the oal for future reloading sessions. This needs to be done with any new bullet, as each will have a different olgive profile, thus different functional oal.

GS
 
I load with a Dillon 550b. Uses a charge bar. Some say it's more accurate than a disk. I can't say.

I do know that even if I just switch toolheads to another caliber I've already setup for, I weigh each of the first ten throws. If they are remaining at my desired setting, I keep going and weigh each 3rd round for another 30 rounds. Even once I have built 100 in a session, I still check (with the scale!).

And, with EVERY round, I visibly look into the case to make sure the charge is the same. This prevents double charges and missed charges due to any distractions.
Of course one of your main goals in reloading is to have NO distractions during your load session.

This can be a very dangerous hobby. People that have done this for any length of time and are still alive and in possession of all fingers take these things very seriously.

Read, study and ask questions first. Learn about the press, all the acronyms, processes, potential failure points FIRST!!!

Be safe and enjoy.
 
No, it seems like the disks get seasoned and after 10-15 throws stay on target. I wouldn't trust it without a scale its not perfect.
 
RandyP, that was a great observation about shooting unknown reloads! Thanks, Cat
Click to expand...

Agreed! It also amazes me that someone would sell reloads without thought to the liability if something goes wrong. The thing is, if you get them at a gun show the person is long gone and you probably can't trace him.

Just remember the Darwin awards and the Jackass movies; some of them are probably shooters.:uhoh:
 
Catpop said:
Got a very good friend that called me the other day. Seems he had bought a Lee 1000 or something like that (without my input and he knows I reload; and on the advice of his fellow workers that reload).
He stated he thought he was seating the bullet (9mm) too deep int the case. It didn't look right to him and he was trying to figure out how to adjust it.
I asked him what his COAL was - His what?
I asked him how much powder was he using - Whatever the auto disk number called for.
I asked him if he had a powder scale - do I need one?
My advice to him was to NOT SHOOT anything he had loaded so far! I OR one of his fellow workers should come by and check his progress. Bullet depth, as well as grains of powder have a direct effect on chamber pressure!
QUESTION: Being unfamiliar with a Lee auto disk powder measure, my question is: Should one trust the auto measure without a scale to back it up?
Click to expand...
i dont trust them, i use a scale on everything. he should definitely get a scale
 
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