"New" S&W 19-5 ammo question

[rmuzz]

I'm fairly new to the forums, I read quite a bit but not much of a poster. I recently acquired a nice little S&W 19-5 at my local gun/pawn and had some questions (Its my first hundgun/revolver.) Its a nice piece of machinery, and I'm quite happy with my purchase.

However, I have heard that magnum loads lighter than 158gr can cause cracking in the forcing cone area. http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm, I have gone over my gun closely and it looks fine... I was just wondering what ammo should I be using?

I shot 3 boxes of Magtech 158gr. hollow points, no issues... couldnt find them at the sporting goods store I was at today so I bought some American Eagle (Federal) 158gr jacketed sp bullets. They cost way more than the magtech ammo I got last time, but everything in their store seemed exorbitant and I want to hit the range sometime in the next day or so.

Is there a good options for affordable .357 ammo out there that I should check out? Additionally, considering the possible problem with lighter grain/higher velocity magnum rounds is there anything I should definately steer clear of? Can I shoot heavier rounds? Can I shoot .38, .38+P ammo without worry? (should I not want to?)

Im at the range 1-2 times a month and go through a couple boxes a visit, I really don't want to buy high dollar stuff.

Looking forward to hearing your responses.

- rmuzz

 

[loneviking]

Sweet little gun. I have one I'll be getting out of layawake in about two weeks that's the exact same model. Any ammo with a bullet of weight of 140 gr. and up will do fine. The 19's do well with .38's and +P .38's, and the heavy .357 bullets. Stay away from a steady diet of 110/125 high velocity loads and the gun will last a lifetime.

 

[Ken Rainey]

Yep, nice revolver, I've got a couple myself ...I mainly shoot lead .38 specials and every once in a while a few .357 magnums...mostly lead to save the barrel, and a few jacketed rds just for good measure. Most of what I shoot are reloads that are on the mild side...I like these revolvers and want them to last a long time.. A 158 grain +P .38 lead semi wad cutter is an excellent defensive cartridge that is easy on you and the revolver..

www.mastercast.net is a commercial reloader that looks like could save a feller some money....probably gonna give'em a try myself unless I can free up some time to load my own....

 

[rmuzz]

Thank you for the advice, I got a little worried when I heard the potential for cracking but sounds easy enough to avoid. I might do some more shooting with .38s to cut back costs and maybe save some wear, and Ill try stay clear of the higher velocity stuff. I'd like the gun to last as long as I do, so it all seems like good advice.

I checked that reloading/remanufactured ammo site, very tempting to try out. <$9 for box of 50 rounds, with exchange? Sounds too good.

Much appreciated,

rmuzz

 

[BCRider]

.357 is expensive regardless of how you cut it. If you're shooting a lot then doing your own reloading is the way to go. And if you're reloading then you can do your own rounds that are a little milder than the full on magnum power loads. It'll be kinder to both your wrists as well as the gun yet if you load to half way between +P and the full Magnums then it'll still deliver a healthy kick to make you grin.

 

[madcratebuilder]

A steady diet of hyper 125gr's is hard on any frame size. IMHO lead build up on the forcing cone can be a major cause of the forcing cone cracking issues we all read about. I have shot 3-400 rounds of 125's over the years in two K frames with out issue. I never exceed published load data.

 

[mbt2001]

Model 19's are not made to shoot .357's all the time for extended periods. Think of them more like .38+ guns that can occasionally shoot .357's and you will not have a problem.

A cylinder full or 2 is fine, more than that and you are asking for trouble. It should be able to handle MOST generic factory .357 rounds without too much trouble. The steel used (and this is more of a problem with the Model 66) isn't necessarily rated for .357 usage of super high pressure rounds. It can fire them, but shooting say 100 x 125 grain .357's (at the range in like 20 min) can cause the metal to swell and the cylinder to jam shut or not close until it cools.

My advice is use .38's to practice, a few cylinder full of .38+ and .357's to keep you sharp and then load the gun with whatever you want to use for SD or carry or hunting. Just don't continue hammering it with .357's and / or heavy hand loads. Get a Ruger for that.

 

[Ky Larry]

I have a S&W Model 19-5. I bougt it used so I have no idea how much it was shot before I got it but I've put 5,000+ light .38 target loads thru it. It's still tight and shoots great. I also have a S&W Model 686 with a Millet Red Dot and B-Square mount that I've put 2000+ fairly warm .357 loads thru and it is still tight and shoots great. I've put 2000 light target loads thru my Python but only about a box of commercial .357 ammo. As someone stated earlier, if you want to shoot a steady diet of full bore .357 Mags, get a Ruger.

 

[BCRider]

I wouldn't worry too much about your 19 despite a lot of the opinions that they aren't made for a steady diet of .357. I read the same stuff and then came across a few that called the concern a lot of bumpkuss and that they had fed their M19's nothing BUT a steady diet of factory magnums. All the contradiction makes it hard to know what is the real story. Likely as with most things it's somewhere in the middle. S&W made the 19 to shoot magnums. And I'm sure it will for a long time. But to a dedicated range hound what S&W think of as a "long time" in terms of rounds count may be a bit less than what we'd like to see. So the truth is likely somewhere in the middle much like it always is.

All of which goes to say that you shouldn't worry overly about it. But I can also tell you that if you're trying to put a nice group of holes into a target then there's nothing much finer than .38Spl rounds for the task. It's a sweet round in the 19 with a nice firm but light thump. It tells you you're shooting a serious gun but in a polite way compared to the brashness of the magnum rounds....

I'll be getting my own 19-5 with a 6 inch barrel soon. Once I start reloading I'll be loading .357 brass to a variety of loads that range from .38Spl like to a "super +P" and on up to factory clones of the Magnums. A load for every occasion.

 

[Oro]

I wouldn't worry too much about your 19 despite a lot of the opinions that they aren't made for a steady diet of .357. I read the same stuff and then came across a few that called the concern a lot of bumpkuss and that they had fed their M19's nothing BUT a steady diet of factory magnums. All the contradiction makes it hard to know what is the real story.

A rational man, this BCRider. As long as you don't shoot 70's era "Super Vel" lightweight ammo, there is no problem. This was introduced in the early 70s, and was widely adopted by the late 70s, when the problem showed up. No problem with other brands or SAAMI spec ammo. So the "word of mouth" problems became the gunwriter's buzz of the '80s, the then the internet rumor of the 90's. And here we are 30 years on still dealing with it.

Unless you are buying 70's vintage Super Vel ammo, don't worry about it and you can shoot any factory spec .357 ammo out there. Stop the myth; ask for facts.

 

[RON in PA]

If there were no problems why did Smith discontinue the k frame .357s like the model 19, 13, 65 and 66? Why did Smith come out with the 586/686 L frames? i suggest there is a problem and if it was my model 19 I'd go easy on the .357s and use primarily 38 special 38 special +P.

 

[theP8riot]

http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_SW-Model19.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_SWsBest.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm

Here's some good reading for you. Oh, if anyone wants to get rid of their fragile model 19's I will gladly dispose of them for you for only a small fee.

 

[CDH]

.357 is expensive regardless of how you cut it. If you're shooting a lot then doing your own reloading is the way to go. And if you're reloading then you can do your own rounds that are a little milder than the full on magnum power loads. It'll be kinder to both your wrists as well as the gun yet if you load to half way between +P and the full Magnums then it'll still deliver a healthy kick to make you grin.

I'll give that a big +1

I bought my Model 19 brand new in 1972 (abouts) and it looks and shoots brand new still.

I got into handloading because of that particular pistol, and what I mostly do is to load using the .357 loading tables, but I'll use the lightest loads given. That way, I'm using full length .357 cases in the pistol to avoid fouling in the cylinder, but shooting loads that are really easy on the pistol.
I've never worried about the talk of the Model 19's supposed fragility with full-house .357 loads, and I've shot a bit of them too.
But knowing I wanted to baby this pistol because I intended to keep it a lifetime*, I didn't see a need to shoot the heavy stuff for just target practice.

You don't have to get fancy at all to reload. Just pick up a Rockchucker press and the basics to go with it and you'll be surprised how soon you'll sound like a commercial when you tell your friends how "inexpensive, fun, and easy!" it is to reload your own.

* This 6" Model 19 was the very first pistol I bought that started the rest of "the collection", and being the first, I knew I'd never sell it. Having had it for over 35 years, it's time I started figuring out exactly who my favorite nephew is. The others are going to regret not being really nice to their uncle.

 

[Guillermo]

Legendary lawman Bill Jordan had a dream. He envisioned all of the attributes of the incredible model 27 on a lighter frame. After working on their heat treatment they presented Jordon with the very first adjustible sights, shrouded barrel K frame, the model 19.

It is an outstanding handgun with a great history. I was proud to present one to my daughter on her 15th birthday.

 

[rcmodel]

If there were no problems why did Smith discontinue the k frame .357s like the model 19, 13, 65 and 66?

Factory .357 ammo used to be loaded to 40,000 PSI or more.

At one time, only soft swaged lead 158 grain bullets were available in factory loads. They leaded the forcing cone & rifling terribly, increasing pressure even more!

Then about 1970 something, came Lee Jurras and his Super-Vel screamers, followed closely on the heels by the other manufactures.

Factory .357 pressure has now been reduced to 35,000 PSI in the last few years.

And I believe you could shoot todays kinder & gentler factory .357 ammo till hell froze over in a Model 19 without hurting it any more then shooting it that much with anything would hurt it.

rc

 

[CU74]

....if you want to shoot a steady diet of full bore .357 Mags, get a Ruger.

Don't be too quick to sell Smith & Wesson short. IMHO, the Smith "N" Frame revolvers will match the Ruger for .357 ruggedness. The .44 Magnum Model 29 (Dirty Harry's "...most powerful handgun in the world....") was built on the square-butt "N" target frame.

I only shoot .38 Specials through my "K" frames and mostly .38 Specials through my "L" frames, but the "N" frames often get fed .357 Magnums. (Full disclosure - I have several double-action Rugers, and the GP-100 also gets fed a few .357 Magnums.)

 

[.38 Special]

Gunwriter Brian Pierce (sp?) did a piece a while back wherein he took measurements of a new Model 19 and then fired 5000 full pressure rounds through it. IIRC he reported no dimensional change at 2500 rounds but a noticeable increase in flash gap and endshake at 5000. The gun was actually slightly more accurate at 5000 rounds than at 2500, though, which just goes to show that revolvers do have personalities.

I personally stick to lighter Magnum loads in my 19s. That's partly out of concern for longevity and partly because firewall loads are kind of unpleasant.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I wore out a model 66 with about 3 or 4 hundred rounds of rem 125gr. .357. Smith & Wesson replaced the barrel, cylinder and gos only knows what else (free of charge).

 

[Ala Dan]

I only shoot MY 158 grain L-SWC handloaded .38 Specials in my 6" S&W
model 19-5; and I DON'T shoot my factory nickel (all original) S&W model
19-3, with box and doc's~!

 

[Oro]

Then about 1970 something, came Lee Jurras and his Super-Vel screamers, followed closely on the heels by the other manufactures.

Yes, rcmodel, this is the key. It was the SuperVel ammo and it's wide adoption by LE agencies that did lots of damage. Modern .357 rounds just aren't dangerous to a K frame .357 as recent tests have shown.