New some input on .22LRs

[golden220]

I'm looking to pick up a 22 to develop my marksmanship

I'm looking at the following models:
Savage MKII
Marlin 980
CZ-452

They will all be in .22LR. I'm having a hard choice choosing which one to pick up. Of course I want a accurate firearm, but I also want it to be very rugged and able to withstand being dragged through the woods regularly. I've felt the action on the Marlin and CZ. I thought the Marlin action to be sloppy, especially when compared to the CZ. Oh and its needs to be capable of shooting iron sights... good irons.

Right now I'm leaning towards the savage because of price. I've heard good things about the 5xx Remmys, but having seen or held any of them so I'm not planning on looking for those unless someone says otherwise.

Any input?

 

[BamBam-31]

A CZ 452 Trainer will run you around $250. Dunno how much the other rifles on your list cost, but the difference prolly wont be much. The quality of the CZ, however, is fantastic. Excellent iron sights, great materials and workmanship, unreal accuracy.

If you're looking for a .22 to learn on, the CZ gets a HUGE thumbs up from me.

 

[Slugless]

The ladder sights on the CZ are way cool. Estimate the distance, slide the slider and you're good to go.

I've not played around enough with mine to know if I want peeps on it, and I'm not certain if the Brooks peeps/ghost ring will elevate correctly (I don't see why not...anyone? anyone?)

With the front sight hood the CZ oughta be woods-capable but I've not dragged mine around through scrub oak, knocked it off a boulder, etc. Yet. It is under consideration as a woods rifle, though.

 

[Jackal]

I have a Savage MKII with the accutrigger. It is the low end, wood stocked, standard barrel model. I can hit everything I aim at with the irons and with a 4x scope, it shoots quarter sized groups at 50 yards. Not bad for $160.

 

[rugerdude]

The extra money for the CZ is money well spent. The sights on the savage and marlin really aren't the best either.

I would have recommended the Marlin, but since you don't like the action, and the sights suck, I'm going to say CZ.

The savage is great for the money, but it is still a 120 dollar gun, and you'll know it.

I love my marlin 925, but you'll see what a following the CZ has when more people post.

Get ready.

 

[Ol` Joe]

Go for the CZ

 

[MrBorland]

I don't have experience with the Savage or Marlin, but I can recommend the CZ 452. I have the Varmint and Scout. The Varmint is great off the bench, but would likely get heavy if hauled around the woods and it lacks iron sights. I bought the Scout for my GF - it's got iron sights, and because it's small (5 lbs/16" barrel), it's extremely handy, and with a beech stock, an even better price for a very accurate rifle. I love shooting it myself. I've read of many others who bought a Scout for someone else who needed a small rifle, then loved it so much, they bought another for themselves. Another option would be the bigger Lux (7lbs/28.6" barrel). Don't have one myself (yet), but the iron sights are supposed to be superb, which would work well with the longer sight radius if you're not planning on scoping it.

As a bonus, if you do decide to get a CZ, if you get one with an adjustable trigger, and spring a few extra bucks for a Brook's trigger kit, you'll get a rifle with an exceptional trigger.

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=5
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=3
http://www.cz452.com/

 

[arcticap]

Yes, the 452's have very accurate barrels which give them an edge, nice open sights for marksmanship training, and also come with sling swivel studs. But if you intend to hunt small moving game and carry it through the woods, buy an auto loader. The follow up shot capability more than makes up for the difference in accuracy. Also, the CZ bolt is unlike almost every other bolt design. It's a strong & durable design but cruder than others in many respects. It's a single piece bolt body with a collered ring attached to the bolt handle, rather than a 2 piece bolt body with an integral, machined handle. Also, my beech stocked 452 is not properly free floated from the factory just like almost every other 452 beech stocked model (with a schnabeled fore end), and unlike the more expensive 452 American models which have properly cut barrel channels. Not a big deal but still, somewhat less accurate at longer ranges.
Ever try to shoot a squirrel that's moving around in the tree tops?
Even when you run across one on the ground, a semi-auto offers much more follow up shot potential and rapidness. Bolt actions are good for when they are sitting still, but which would you rather use when they aren't?
Semi-auto's do offer more much hunting utility, especially if you are hunting at relatively closer ranges & without a scope where accuracy differences aren't all that noticable. You'll be lucky if you can even see where you're hitting when not shooting at a paper target. When you have a semi auto, just fire away!

 

[knickia]

are you only looking at bolts ? Marlin model 60's are accurate (and fun in the woods) 10/22's have more toys tho

as far as your selection.. i believe the Mark 2 is on the NRA equipment list for use in smallbore shooting... so could dual purpose...

 

[Pigspitter]

Get a Henry H001 they have the smoothest action of any .22 and they are darn accurate and I got mine NIB for $235.

 

[General Geoff]

I'm gonna recommend the Marlin 980s, as I've got one (well the -cf model), and I love it to death. Not sure what you meant by sloppy action, but mine is very nearly as smooth as butter. Could be slightly better, but for a $250 rifle, I'm not complaining.

So far my 980 is proving to be more accurate than I am, and I can only manage a ~2 inch group at 100 yards with a bipod. I'll get better in time (only have 300 rounds through the barrel), but I suspect I'll maintain (and even deepen) my appreciation for my "carbon fiber fish."

 

[bang_bang]

I had a Browning lever action that was wickedly accurate and shot any ammunition you could put in it. Great gun, but kinda small. I think they sale for over $400 and comes with wood stocks. That's a bad thing for dragging it over rocks. I would look into a Ruger 10/22. You can do so many things to them and for a semi auto they are very accurate and extremely reliable. I've shot well over 4,000 rnds through mine with no problem, and it eats cheap bulk ammo very well. I thought about getting another one and putting a 3x9x32 scope on it with a target barrel and a synthetic stock. Great groundhog or squirrel rifle and fun as heck to shoot pop cans.

 

[hksw]

I thought the Marlin action to be sloppy, especially when compared to the CZ. Oh and its needs to be capable of shooting iron sights... good irons.

All criteria point to CZ 452 Trainer/Special/Lux/Ultra Lux

 

[v8stang289]

I have a Savage mk II and it is a great gun. Mine has a sporter barrel and is pre-accutrigger, but it is very accurate. Quarter size groups at 50 are the norm with bulk federal ammo. I have heard nothing but good things about the CZ-452, and it is definately a nicer looking gun than the savage. But the savage can easily be had for half the price, which is one of the reasons i chose it.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I have a cz scout. It's extremely accurate and the bbl. is not floated. It came with a test target that was incredible. My very first shot was about 35 yds. at a squirrel. Aimed at the head and hit his head. Most guns today that come with open sights aren't regulated as well as they could be. I think cz takes their guns to a higher level. I hope they never compromise their quaility.

 

[Gord]

I have a Savage 64F and a Remington 597 - both are nice and accurate enough that I can cut daisies in half at the stem at 75 yards with with a 4x fixed scope.

The Rem 597 has a nice, wide benchrest-style stock and feels solid, but is heavier and nice-enough looking that I wouldn't want to drag it through the brush all day and scuff it up. The sights are great for picking up quickly, not so great for precise long-range shots.

The Savage has a thin, cheesy plastic stock, but it's extremely lightweight and you wouldn't mind terribly if it got scuffed up (mine's pretty battered by now). The front sight blade is really thin and works fantastically for precision shots. They're all over the place for $140ish new, $100 used. Try to get an older one or one that's been broken in as both the safety and the bolt on the "new used" ones I've seen are stiffer than heck.

 

[Il Duca]

"Winchester" Wildcat. Or, if you can find it, the original TOZ rifle often called "the Whisper." They are on par with the CZ in accuracy, have adjustable triggers, good iron sights, and they come with 4 mags. Best value in a .22 bolt action by far. Not the prettiest sometimes, but worth every penny (the TOZ rifles usually run between $100-150).

 

[Caimlas]

I don't know what they normally go for in gun shops, but I got a CZ 452 Lux for $275 new from First Stop Guns in Rapid City, SD on Saturday.

I've never shot the Savage or Marlin, but have seen both; the Savage is nice, but doesn't fit me as well as the CZ, and does not balance as well as the CZ. The receiver of both the Savage and Marlin appear to be of cheaper quality than the CZ, and while I'm sure it doesn't matter much, it does look a hell of a lot sturdier.

If you haven't handled them, you should. IMO that makes a hell of a lot of difference. The CZ comes up cleanly, perfectly aligned on every shot for me. It's as accurate as one can expect out of a .22LR rifle, and (according to Kim duToit - theothersideofkim.com) can shoot a sub-1" 5 shot group at 200 yards with (iirc) CCI Stinger (or maybe it was Mini Mag). That's roughly consistent with what I've done with it, and I'm no expert shot.

Oh yeah and the CZ comes with an adjustable trigger. That's hard to beat, and truly adds value to the gun above and beyond the others. IIRC the 452 was about 300$ more expensive about 5 years back, and frankly, I think the quality of the gun surpasses even that. It's just that damn nice.

I've heard the Marlin 981 is preferable to the 980, but my recollection of that information may be incorrect.

ETA: Oh yeah, mine came with a digital test target (signed by the shooter - that was a little emotional, I've never seen that before) with the following characteristics: shot with Sellier Bellot ammo, 50m range, 5 shot impact w/ a dispersion area of 23.00mm and coverable by a quarter (shot by someone named Froial, I think). For someone who likely spends his entire day shooting, that seems pretty damn good! I've yet to shoot for groups with it yet myself.

ETA2: This might be worth a moment of your time: http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/ggps/5763/

 

[golden220]

Ok, i've had some time shooting different .22LRs and a .22WMR. I preferred the .22LR over the WMR for one simple reason... $$$. WMR by me is twice as expensive.

After looking at NJ hunting laws, basically you can use a .22 for hunting woodchucks and raccoons. Therefore, I would only be using the .22 for range shooting. Thus, my gun choice has changed to a looking for an entry to midrange competition shooter. Would the CZ-452 fit this choice, or should I look at others like henry and weatherby?

EDIT: Yes, I want to stay .22. I'll go high-powered, once I get my groups consistently near to perfect.

 

[Il Duca]

The CZs seem to be popular in the silhouette shoots, but when you get down to really wanting to compete they won't be competative. I would go for a Biathlon Basic if I was going to use a scope. For iron sights there are lots of options. Century has some good target guns right now and they're pretty affordable.

Schultz and Larsen M70:
http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI1212T-G

Russian Vostok Ural (like what they shot in the Olympics):
http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI1446-G

The most expensive of these two is the Vostok at $399. That is dealer price so it would be somewhat higher depending on how much the dealer you order through marks up. I believe the M70 is like $329 dealer price. I really like the feel of the M70, it also has nice sights. The Vostok's sights are better but I prefer the feel of the M70. Also look at the CM-2.

I believe CDNN has Suhl 150s in right now too. Any of these rifles would serve you well to learn and refine your skills and would be able to hold their own competatively with a little tweaking. And if you can scrape together a little more you could go for something like a Winchester 52. They are still up near the top of the list accuracy wise.

 

[theNoid]

While I have no experience with the CZ guns, I can say that the Savage with the Accutrigger is a sweet, accurate shooting package on the cheap.

Noidster