New to .357 Sig

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bigsarg99

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Hi all I'm seeking advice on handloading for my Glock 32 in .357sig. Trying to get info on whats hot and whats not as far as powder, primers, which bullets weights are best anything along those lines. I am new to this round but not to handloading( going on 15 years now). I just received my dillion dynamic dies for my rl 550 and cant wait to go but I want to go correctly. Any quirks you all have expieranced with you 550b's would help too.
 
You have to be real sure you use bullets that are of a flat point configuration AND are 9mm or .355 in diameter. Round nose fmj 9mm bullets have too long of an ogive to allow the case to crimp into the bullet and be the correct OAL to fit into the mag. Failure to have the case mouth bite into the bullet could cause failure to feed AND pamming the bullet deeper into the case, raising pressure.

Also a big controversy about whether the 357 sig headspaces on the case mouth, or the shoulder. I treat it as though it headspaces on the shoulder. Now for the disclaimer; I just started loading for the sig, I don't even have the KKM barrel fitted to my M-22 glock yet. But I have begun loading shells for it, I got 1000 rounds of once fired brass from midway and started putting some together. So take what I say with a grain or 3 of salt.

Right now I'm loading them on a lee chalanger press, but I intend to get a tool head and other needed stuff to do them on my 650.
 
The 357 Sig is an easy round to load, once you figure out the few little quirks. I've loaded well over 10,000 rounds of it so far.

As snuffy pointed out, use only flat point or hollow point bullets, as the overall length of this round is pretty short. The advice to use .355" or .356" diameter bullets is also correct, as the 357 in the round's name is only that, a name, since it was designed to compete head to head with the .357 Magnum 125 grain loading, only in a pistol configuration. That's why there is no "." in front of the "357" in the name. I load a lot of Berry's 124 grain plated flatpoints and plated hollowpoints in this round, but you'll also find that the Speer 124 grain Gold Dot specifically made for the 357 Sig is also a very good bullet, as well as the Hornady 124 grain XTP. Also use a powder that fills the case and is slightly compressed, as this helps with preventing bullet setback. I prefer Accurate Arms #9 for my loads, since it's proven to be very, very accurate. You can use any standard small pistol primer for this round.

You may run into a problem with the Dillon dies, since they are belled at the mouth of the die to facilitate use in a progressive press. Mine wouldn't size the case far enough to take the swell out just ahead of the web, but I solved this by running the brass through my Magma Case Sizemaster jr., which pushes the entire case all the way through the die and sizes the whole length of it, including the rim. I already had a 10mm die for the Magma, and the 357 Sig is based on a 10mm size case. Of course it won't size the neck, but I do that in a my Dillon 357 Carbide size die when I punch out the primers.

Speaking of depriming, you'll find that some Speer brass has a very small primer flash hole. So small in fact that the Dillon decapping pin won't go through it. I'm told this brass is made for Speer by another vendor, but it's good brass. You can tell the difference by looking at the base of the case. Some Speer brass is totally flat appearing and other Speer brass has a rounded appearance. I drill all my flash holes the same size, once I use a universal decapping tool to punch out the original primers. More work, but I've devised a way to do it really fast, which I won't go into now.

The round is designed to headspace on the case mouth, but I've found that there are two actual datum points for headspacing. One is the case mouth and the other is the shoulder. Some dies won't set the shoulder back far enough for the round to chamber. I had one die/shellholder combination that wouldn't allow this to happen, so I milled off about .008" from the top of the shellholder, to allow the case to be pushed far enough into the die to set the shoulder back to where it needed to be. It was an easy fix and I've helped others with this same problem. There is enough tolerance stack between the dies and shellholders to sometimes cause this problem. I'm not sure how this is going to factor in on your Dillon press, since I don't use one.

Another area that might give you a problem is the seating of bullets. Because of the short neck, you need as much neck tension on the bullet as you can get. I choose not to bell the case mouths, since I want all the neck tension there is. I chamfer all my case mouths, which only has to be done one time. This allows bullets to seat into the tight neck without shaving the jacket, including the plated bullets, which are considerably softer. Once I did the chamfering, all seating problems disappeared. I've also devised a process for chamfering whole batches of cases really quickly and it only has to be done one time.

I also crimp, using the Dillon crimping die, but I canellure all my bullets and crimp into the canellure, which helps to keep the bullet from setting back during the feeding cycle.

I've found that Federal nickel brass has a tendency to be long. Some of it is so long that even once fired brass won't chamber. I've bought a file trim die for this round, but what a pain that is! Since the brass is now pretty plentiful, I would just recycle any brass that is too long to reload. Just watch the length of the cases and when you start to get some that are longer than SAAMI maximum, look for some newer brass.

I have two pistols for the 357 Sig, a Springfield XD and an EAA Witness. Both are exceedingly accurate with this round, but the XD prefers 124 grain bullets and the Witness prefers 115 grain bullets for the tightest groups. Both will shoot ragged one hole ten shot groups from the bench @ 15 yards, and keep all ten rounds within about 2" at 25 yards, if I do my part. I've saved some targets that even amaze me. This is one accurate round.

If you have any questions, be sure to ask.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Good write ups above. My add/build is use AA9 powder. It basically supports the bullet so you cannot really get a setback issue during the feed cycle like some of the other powders can. Also, for most bullets you cannot put enough AA9 into the case to make a nasty overload. Mild yes, but nasty no. To me, AA9 was made for the SIG.
 
Thanks Fred!

Now I learned a few things!:) My buddy just brought out the 357 sig barrel, it didn't need to be fitted! Dropped right in nice and tight! There's a lot of rounds through that slide in the 40 configuration, so it fit without a problem.

The powder I tried for my first loads was Alliant blu-dot. These will be the first ones to go through the new BBL. I also used the 124 Hornady xtp. AND a few speer 90 grain hp. The 124 west coast fmj were too much of a pointed bullet to load in the sig, darn it I still can't get them used up!:scrutiny: . I have some power pistol that should work well.

I have some,(8 pounds), WC-820 that acts more like aa#9, it is supposed to be used with H-110 data, but it is faster than H-110. i'm wondering if it could be used to load the 357 sig.?
 
You're welcome. No sense in having to rediscover what I've already learned about this great round.

As far as using the WC820 powder, I don't know. That powder was originally used for M1 Carbine loadings, so it's probably pretty close to both H-110 and WW 296, though the load is about 2 grains less than WW 296 for the same bullet in the carbine round. If you have access to a chronograph, you could probably work up some loads for it, but I would only use it with 124 grain bullets and heavier. The only surplus powder I've used is IMR 4895 for .308, which was identical to commercial IMR 4895 in loading.

A lot of people don't like the 357 Sig round because they say it's restricted to 124 grain bullets, but my XD was shot at the factory with S&B ammunition, which only comes in 140 grain bullets from that manufacturer. I've never shot any of the S&B 357 Sig ammunition myself, but I know they go through tons of it at the factory in Croatia, and it has a good reputation for quality in Europe.

Some people use Blue Dot with great success in this round. I started with AA #9 and it worked out so good, I just stuck with it. It meters beautifully and fills up the case, besides being extremely accurate. I use a lot of Blue Dot for loading my 10mm guns.

The lightest bullets I've tried are the 115 grain from Berry's. I have done some experimenting with other bullets, but all of them are between 115 grains and 124 grains, though I intend to load some with 147 grain Remington JHP's. I had several thousand round nose 9mm bullets sometime back, and some time on my hands, so I ran some of those bullets through one of my bullet swaging dies that forms a flatpointed roundnose. I bumped them down to the same length as the Speer Gold Dots and they shot great. It was just too much work to go through, when I can buy the bullets by the thousand for under $30.00, plus shipping. That's for the Berry's, not the Gold Dots, as Speer doesn't sell most of their better bullets in bulk.

The 357 Sig is a great round and I really enjoy shooting it. I'm sure you will, too.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
With AA9 I have loaded from 88 grn "screamers" up to to 147 grn XTP's. Mostly I load 115 Rem JHP's and 124 Rem JHP's. Both work well unless I am out to have fun.

I think a lot of folks "think" the 357 sig would be hard to load for so they complain. I find it one of the easiest to load for. Never catch the lip of the SIG going into the dies like you can on the 357 mag or the 30 carbine.....

;)
 
Range session

Wow! Now that's what I call a handfull!:D :what: I only had 20 rounds loaded, so I stopped at Gander mtn to pick up a box of rem 125 fmj's. Shooting at the steel sihouette from 50 yds, the velocity increase compared to the 40's was remarkable. I had no trouble hitting the plate, as long as I concentrated on trigger squeeze. it's a zippy round, that's for sure! Noisy, with more recoil than any of my 40 loads. Function was flawless as well!

My handloads seemed to be in the same velocity range, with the blu-dot loading. I only had a small ammount left, I'll switch to power pistol. I want to set up the chrono to see what the velocity actually is. With it, I should be able to work up some loads with the WC-820. Since I have a lot of it, and it's a bargain, I'd like to put it to use. Today was a gourgeous day, little wind, sunny and 40 degrees. You don't get many days like that in Wisconsin this time of year!
 
I've used both the Speer 125grn TMJ & Montana Gold 125grn FMJ bullets to good effect. I'm using Power Pistol as powder (believe 8.3grn, but doing from memory, do NOT load with said data) and been pleased. A poster on Sigforum suggested I try the Master Match 357 Sig bullets (see http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=2610&dir=278|281|298; they look like they're cheaper than the Montana Golds or the Speers. Going to give those shot next 1000 rounds. :)

I'm loading on a Lee Pro 1000 press with Lee dies. I have a Lee Factory Crimp Die on a 2nd die holder I run everything through after loading (the Pro 1000 only has three sockets per holder).
 
WOW Thanks to all of you who chimed in. I appreciate all the advice and tips for reloading the 357 Sig. I reload alot of straight wall stuff but never any bottleneck cases. Thanks again!
 
Any ideas about AA9

I've been using AA9 powder for the 357 SIG, and I have a few questions.

I'm loading with 124 grain Hornady FMJ FN on top of 13.1 grains, and shooting it in an H&K USP compact.

What I've noticed is that the muzzle flash is quite noticeable, and that a lot of unburnt powder granules find their way into the chamber. I have occasional issues with fully chambering rounds, and was wondering if the problem lies with poor brass resizing, or from unburnt powder granules accumulating in the chamber.

Topgunner
 
AA 9 is a relatively slow powder and the short barrel of your compact isn't long enough for all if it to burn before the bullet exits the muzzle. This is why you're getting all the flash and unburned granules of powder. If you're not crimping your case neck, you might want to do so, to give the powder a better chance to combust.

The chambering issue is most probably attributable to case sizing. Make sure you're setting the shoulder back enough to allow the slide to lock up properly. You can test this with a sized, but unloaded case. If the shoulder isn't being set back enough, then screw the size die down about 1/4 turn more and try it again. If that's too much, then back off about 1/8 turn. If you look at the case necks under a magnifying glass, you should be able to see how far down the neck the sizing die is going and adjust accordingly.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Thanks Fred

I'll see what I can do, but IIRC the die was screwed all the way down to the shell plate and wouldn't go down any farther.

I'm in the middle of gearing up to load a bunch of 44 Magnum, so the press is in the middle of being calibrated for that, but once I'm done loading all of that, I'll put the 357 SIG toolhead and shellplate back in and do some checking. I've read that some people experiencing inadequate shoulder-setback have filed/milled their dies to make them shorter. I'm not sure that I want to go that route, but if I have to then I have to. :uhoh:

I chose the AA9 as a starting load, since it filled up the case nicely and prevented the chances of accidental overfilling. I'm almost done with it all, so I may move to a different powder with a faster burn rate.

Are there any rules of thumb for determining how fast of a powder I need in order to acheive complete combustion before the bullet leaves the barrel? I'm assuming that the ammo and gun manufacturers have some secret formulas for calculating such a thing, I was just wondering if there was any in the public domain.
 
I'm assuming that since you mention a shellplate, that you're loading 357 Sig on a progressive press. If you have a single stage press available, you might try sizing on that, and doing the rest of the loading on the progressive. That's how I do it, just to make sure I don't have the sizing issue, which I did when I first starting loading this round. I solved it by milling about .008" off a shellholder and marking it just for sizing 357 Sig. I also like to prime my cases separately and then load them on my progressive. I've solved a lot of problems with this method. You won't be able to file off metal from the die, as they are hardened steel. Most sizing dies will ruin a file before any metal is removed.

As for powders, the commercial manufacturers use what are known as "bulk" powders, whereas reloaders use "canister" powders. The difference is the bulk powders are blended to certain parameters and then the companies test them in their ballistics labs to come up with the proper load for that lot of the bulk powder, which they get in very, very large quantities.

Canister powders are blended to finer parameters so that each lot is very close to the same burn rate as the previous and those following. That's done because reloaders don't have access to ballistics labs and have to rely on the data provided for each powder, so the variance between lots is kept to a minimum..

Another good powder for the 357 Sig is Blue Dot, but I'm afraid you're going to have some of the same issues with unburned powder in the short barrel. A tighter crimp would be the first thing I would try, as long as it doesn't crumple the shoulder.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Difficulty chambering cartridges

I did a bunch of measuring, and I think that the COL may be just a tad too long.

Neck Shoulder Base Length OAL
American Eagle 0.378 0.4205 0.421 0.864 1.135
American Eagle 0.378 0.4205 0.4205 0.865 1.135
American Eagle 0.378 0.421 0.421 0.864 1.136
Speer Lawman 0.38 0.42 0.422 0.86 1.131
Speer Lawman 0.381 0.419 0.422 0.861 1.124
Speer Lawman 0.38 0.42 0.422 0.862 1.124
Handload 0.38 0.422 0.425 0.856 1.141
Handload 0.379 0.422 0.423 0.861 1.142
Handload 0.38 0.423 0.423 0.858 1.14
Handload 0.38 0.422 0.423 0.856 1.14
Handload 0.381 0.422 0.423 0.854 1.142
Handload 0.382 0.423 0.425 0.855 1.142
Handload 0.38 0.422 0.423 0.86 1.14
Handload 0.38 0.422 0.423 0.858 1.141
Handload 0.378 0.422 0.424 0.862 1.125
Handload 0.38 0.422 0.423 0.859 1.14

It was hard to tell, but plotting the data in Excel made it easier to see.

(damn, it was all layed out in nice easy-to-read columns in the reply window, but it gets messed up when submitted. Sorry.)

Topgunner
 
Well, I got the dillon carbide dies for the sig, and although it works fine without lube, I use a tiny, tiny bit of one shot. One shot is the best.
Dillon sez to use lube, and one shot is easy.
 
Most of mine are recaps from above:

1) Yes to AA#9. Being a compressed load, you do not have to worry about bullet setback.

2) Yes to Dillon carbide dies (but so pricey). I do use a small amount of one shot case lube.

3) My favorite load for 357 SIG: 147 grain Remington JHP's (the cheap bulk ones with the dome-shaped base) over 11.2 grains AA#9.
This is a very accurate load that is pleasant to shoot. There is a bit of muzzle flash but not too bad. I do not have the unburnt powder problems mentioned above (shooting out of a 4" barrel).
 
It just goes to show that your milage may vary.

Reloader Fred:
A lot of people don't like the 357 Sig round because they say it's restricted to 124 grain bullets, but my XD was shot at the factory with S&B ammunition, which only comes in 140 grain bullets from that manufacturer. I've never shot any of the S&B 357 Sig ammunition myself, but I know they go through tons of it at the factory in Croatia, and it has a good reputation for quality in Europe.

I shot a few boxes of the S&B in my H&K USP Compact, and every round was keyholing at 7+ yards! I'd be interested in comparing barrel dimensions for different manufacturers as well as mic'ing the bullets from various ammunition manufacturers.


As far as using the WC820 powder, I don't know. That powder was originally used for M1 Carbine loadings, so it's probably pretty close to both H-110 and WW 296, though the load is about 2 grains less than WW 296 for the same bullet in the carbine round. If you have access to a chronograph, you could probably work up some loads for it, but I would only use it with 124 grain bullets and heavier.


Could you explain to me the basis for the 124 gr bottom limit? I think I stand to learn something from your answer.

Thanks so much for your extensive help!

Topgunner
 
Topgunner,

The reason I recommended sticking with 124 grain bullets or heavier is that the WC820 appears to be in the same burn rate area as Win. 296 and H-110, which are relatively slow burning pistol powders. This wasn't based on experience with the powder, just from looking at how it's used for the M1 Carbine cartridge and comparing it to loads for that cartridge with the other two powders.

As for S&B bullets keyholing, that may be from the rate of twist of the barrel in your gun. If it's too slow for that bullet, then the bullet wouldn't be stabilized and would keyhole. I don't know what rifling twist H&K uses for their barrels, but the included target with my XD showed the bullets to be stabilized and they shot into a tight group. I haven't had any keyhole issues with either my XD or the Witness I had converted to 357 Sig. I've only used 115 and 125 grain bullets in them, but I just bought 2,000 of the Remington 147 grain JHP bullets to try in 357 Sig, 9mm, 9x23 and .38 Super.

Fred
 
The reason I recommended sticking with 124 grain bullets or heavier is that the WC820 appears to be in the same burn rate area as Win. 296 and H-110, which are relatively slow burning pistol powders.

Um, OK, so what does that mean? Slow powders aren't used with light bullets? Educated guess: Does the inertia of the heaviers bullets and relatively longer barrel transit time allow for more complete burning of the powder?

This wasn't based on experience with the powder, just from looking at how it's used for the M1 Carbine cartridge and comparing it to loads for that cartridge with the other two powders.

I thought the standard bullet weight for 0.30 M1 carbine was 110 grains.
In any event, if you could elaborate on this, I might learn even more.

As for S&B bullets keyholing, that may be from the rate of twist of the barrel in your gun.

Oh, right, I hadn't even thought of that. According to H&K's manual (http://www.hkdefense.us/manuals/uspc_man.pdf) it is 378 mm (14.88 in.).

I have also been led to believe that: a) there ain't a whole heck of a lot of factory bullets weights out there for 357 SIG, and b) it's more the length of the bullet than the actual weight - heavier bullets are often necessarily longer thus confusing which of the two attributes is the cause of the effect.

Thanks,

Topgunner
 
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