New to AR-15 - looking for opinions on Stag vs. S&W

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I'm new to rifles in general and am possibly interested in an AR-15 for target shooting and home defense as a backup to the shotgun. I called my LGS and they said they carry both Stag and S&W as well as some higher end makes such as Colt.

I was wondering if anyone has any strong opinions either way for the Stag and/or the S&W. From what I've been reading so far, both seem to make good AR-15's and have found their way to a lot of happy owners. I'd be looking at the S&W M&P 15 Sport and whatever models Stag produces.

Any advice for a newb on these two makes for the AR-15? Is one better than the other, i.e., higher quality, etc?

Thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions.
 
Check out m4carbine.net and ar15.com.

What variety of AR are you going for? An M4gery, 16" midlength, 18" rifle, 20" rifle, etc....?
 
I'm not an AR expert, and I have never fired the M&P Sport, but I have checked them out at the LGS. For under $600 I think they are a pretty good deal, and would certainly qualify for the HD role. It might be a little unsuited for serious target work, but I think they are a good choice for an entry level, general use AR.
 
Since I know next to nothing about the AR-15, I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for just yet. I suppose that will become clearer the more I research and visit the LGS and start talking to people.
 
I have been very happy with my Stag AR-15 model 3. Stag Arms is a fairly new company, however, they are related to Continental Machine Tool, which has been making mil-spec firearms parts for 30+ years. I found the quality of the Stag AR-15 to be very good and maintains the established mil standard. As you may know, the M&P sport does not have a "standard" AR upper; it does not have the forward assist or ejection port cover.
http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?products_id=208
http://www.continentalmachinetool.com/firearms.html
 
You can plus package a Stag and get milspec upgrades.

If you are an occasional plinker there are quality affordable rifles out there...Stag, Bushmaster, DPMS,

There are a few that are supposed to be a little better
Spikes Tactical, PSA, LMT,

And then there's the real deal
Colt, Daniel Defense, Noveske
 
I have a 2011 stag model 3, I wanted the flat top never intend to use open sights, quality is excellent, accurate and no failures at this point,only thing I changed was the trigger,2 stage Geissele, smooth clean break ideal for target.
 
It kind of depends on hard you plan to run it. Most rifles will work for most people most of the time. To really show the differences in build quality between the bottom end of the scale and the top, you have to run them REALLY hard for a REALLY long time. Just to have and use is not a big deal. To take it to a hard and fast carbine course, you might make it hiccup.

You can build a Del-ton for maybe $600. Then are the entry level guns, Stag, DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. Where most people put the benchmark is the Colt 6920. It's the closest rifle to the issued M-4 you can buy. You can probably find one for $1000-1100 right now if you dig. Up from there are the custom makes, and here is where I think the law of diminishing returns comes in. Meaning, you can spend a lot more money, for not much more quality. Brands like Daniel Defense, LMT, Noveske, etc. Noveske cut their barrels from the blanks made for M-249 SAW machine guns, and double chrome line them. Whether or not any of this extra expense means anything to you probably depends on how hard you want to run it.

I personally think that pretty much everyone should start with an economic rifle, and see if they ever need more than that. Most don't.
 
Thanks for all the helpful responses. Seems like I have some work ahead of me, which is a good thing. Not sure if I want to go budget or just bite the bullet (pun intended) and spend the extra $$ now. I'm leaning towards buying a complete rifle and not piece by piece. At any rate, a trip to the LGS will hopefully give me some good ideas.
 
FWIW I have a Stag Model 2. It has worked very well never a problem, unlike most of the AR platforms I see at my range. I hear a lot of people fussing and complaining about their ARs as I am target shooting with one of my bolt actions. A novice beating on the action takes my attention away from shooting because I get worried about being shot. I can only assume that these are home built ARs.
 
I hear a lot of people fussing and complaining about their ARs as I am target shooting with one of my bolt actions. A novice beating on the action takes my attention away from shooting because I get worried about being shot. I can only assume that these are home built ARs.

I see this a lot also think it's number one poor maintenance,perhaps junk ammo or mags.

One note to original poster some of the dedicated AR web sites are IMO little help to the new guy as most are dedicated zombie hunters or mall ninjas perhaps well meaning but talk if only purchasing an AR for battle while 99.9% will only see the local range.My suggesting is find a AR you can afford with a good warranty buy some decent ammo and have fun.
 
Because the AR is soooo; available, popular, modular & varied you're gonna' get a lot of opinions on an open-ended what-to-buy-and-why question. There are super-high quality homebuilts as well as crappy quality factory models (and vice versa). There are people who know a BUNCH about 'em but can't explain things very well. There are folks who sound like AR gurus but don't really know "come here from sic 'em". You're in a good spot 'cause this forum seems to have a lower population of BS artists than most other firearm forums I haunt. :cool:

Both S&W & Stag have a good reputation for consumer-grade AR products. Very few civilian shooters actually need a Les Baer, Wilson Combat or Noveske (etc.) AR. But if they've got the funds, sure, why not?

In your spot & budget, either of the choices you mention will be a fine addition to your gun safe.
 
How much is your local GS selling these for? And how much for the Colts? Most local gun store prices are far higher than buying online and some should at least buy you dinner first. Of course there are a few that have great deals but they are rare.

Anyways, you're about to spend $600 to $1000 i'm guessing so I would advise you read as much as possible to learn the differences between ARs and then decide what serves you best.
 
I'd be looking at the S&W M&P 15 Sport and whatever models Stag produces.
I can't comment on Stag products, but I have been very happy with my S&W M&P 15 Sport that I bought several months ago. Accuracty and reliability have been everything I could ask for.

Check out m4carbine.net and ar15.com.
Actually, I would advise AR newbie to avoid either site. While there is plenty of knowledge there, there is a lot of attitude, too. In my limited experience, no matter what your actual needs, they will most likely do nothing but suggest expensive milspec options and insult you if you ask about less expensive or less "prestigious" guns. :rolleyes:
 
I got my Smith and Wesson M&P 15 about a year ago, and it's great. But really, the only thing you have to consider is price: Both models are available from the factory with a plethora of options (rails, etc.) and both are companies very reputable for their consistency. I would just make a list of the options you want and see who has it cheaper.
 
Actually, I would advise AR newbie to avoid either site. While there is plenty of knowledge there, there is a lot of attitude, too. In my limited experience, no matter what your actual needs, they will most likely do nothing but suggest expensive milspec options and insult you if you ask about less expensive or less "prestigious" guns.

This is very true. Overall, they are good sites with lots of information though. Don't get a 6920 because someone told you to. Research and make your own decision. (For example, ar15.com has an excellent DPMS myth-busting thread. E.g. "DPMS doens't properly stake their carrier keys."--Busted.)

FWIW, I'm a proud DPMS owner; the rifle suits my needs perfectly and has never malfunctioned. Ever. The carrier key is well staked.
 
I own a S&W AR and love it. I've had it for 2yrs now and have yet to have any sort of malfunction, even with the TONS of dirty Russian ammo that I've put through it. I do take care of it though, and clean it after range/training trips. I'm sure the Stag would do you just fine too if you want it just for the occasional range trip and to have on hand for HD. Just use quality accessories should you choose to add things to it, and you'll avoid most problems.
 
My first and only AR is a Stag which I mainly got because it is a left handed version. As has been stated, unless you are running competition or are in multiple extended firefights over in the sand box, just about any quality AR is going to suit your needs as a plinker and home defending rifle.

Short of just not cleaning the dang thing, there isn't a ton to go wrong with an AR. And anything that does happen to short out can be replaced pretty readily since it's so modular.

I bought an AR to shoot a few thousand rounds down range a year for cheap as well as to have a very capable home defense rifle. I have been guarding my home and hearth for years using guns that are not the creme de la creme be it a simple budget Marlin 336 or an old Remington 870. I didn't purchase the Stag to fight block to block with multiple bogies after TWAWKI goes tango-unicorn...that's mall ninja fan fiction:D

Chances are, by the time I am able to wear out anything on the Stag I will have collected another 3 or 4 ARs that replace it. Such is the life of a gun nut:neener: I've heard good things about the S&W as well:)
 
Very few civilian shooters actually need a Les Baer, Wilson Combat or Noveske (etc.) AR. But if they've got the funds, sure, why not?
Very few shooters of any persuasion need one of those brands. The Noveske is noted for durable, high quality barrels and the Wilson and Les Baer are known for being very accurate.

The Noveske is geared toward an operator type with a healthy budget. Other than their switchblocks, they don't bring anything really special to the table. They are very high quality but they are no more reliable than any of the other quality brands out there.

Likewise with the Wilson and LB. Those are mostly geared toward precision shooters with high quality barrels and the focus being on accuracy. Nothing magical about them either.

Colt gets tons of reverence since they hold the DOD M4 contract. That contract has zero to do with their civilian weapons so I don't see what the big deal is. They sell almost entirely on their name and rep in the military market.

Stag is the "house brand" of Continental Machine and Tool who, as mentioned previously, is a sub-contractor for some of the military and government contracts on true mil-spec rifles. Nothing special. Parts are dimensionally in spec. That's all that matters. Some of their rifles and uppers lack M4 feed ramps and some people make a big deal about that. I've got a carbine length upper without them and since my lower lacks the 3rd position on the fire selector, it really isn't a big deal. Have yet to see a reliability issue as a result.

Daniel Defense also gets a lot of praise. I've got various DD parts sprinkled through my various rifles and again, nothing special. I bought them because they were affordable, of acceptable quality and available.

Real world performance and reliability between the various reputable brands out there is marginal. Too many people place too much emphasis on certain nitnoid details that don't matter to reliability and won't have any effect on long term durability with full-auto firing out of the equation. Way too many people point to the "chart" as the gospel of quality but the reality is that most of the columns on that chart have no bearing on the function, durability or reliability of the weapon. In a similar fashion the "chart" is simply a "yes/no" list of features in common with a M4. It is possible, and even common, for something for a particular brand or model to fall in the "no" category but only because it uses a superior coating, material, finish, etc...

I'm not saying that there is no differences between the brands, but in most cases it comes down to quality control of the assembly process and customer/warranty service. Some brands focus their efforts on parts that actually matter to the function of the weapon for its target market and use less expensive options where permissible to meet a price point while still producing a reliable weapon.

Do your research. Figure out what you want/need the rifle to do and how you will likely be using it. Make your purchase decision based on what meets your needs, not what some chart claims is required.
 
I have owned a Bushmaster A3 20" Target model, and currently own a S&W M&P 15OR. I kept the Bushmaster about 95% stock while I owned it, and have dressed the M&P up to almost it's limits with practical and slightly-less practical doo-dads. Both brands have been great for me. The M&P15OR can usually be had for around $850, possibly less if you shop around, and I believe it is just about the best bang-for-your-buck AR-15 currently on the market, when considering quality/reputation/features compared to sticker price.

I have no experience with Stag, but I agree with others who say that unless you get shot at as a living, you should start with an AR that fits within your budget and still has most or all of the features you are looking for.

I have learned that you should start with an AR in it's stock configuration, and get plenty of range time with it, before succumbing to the urge to tacticoolize it. I have a feeling that half of the stuff I currently have hanging off my M&P 15OR will end up back in the box in the future. A few add-ons have surely helped the handling, performance, and manipulation of the rifle for me, but most people can get along fine with a bone-stock AR. For a rifle that will be used only for occasional paper-punching at the range, under non-stress situations, any common brand will do just fine. Keep it clean, keep it lubed, and enjoy that "thwang!" sound that only comes from shooting an AR!
 
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Colt 6920s can be had for just under 950 bucks right now online.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920

If you want to know the ins and outs of the AR family of weapons check out M4carbine.net.

Like others have said here, that site is not the most welcoming if you go in there not knowing what its about. That site was created for professionals to discuss their equipment. There the AR15 is viewed as a FIGHTING tool first and foremost. Many people on that site use ARs daily for LEO, Mil and PMC work. If you want to talk about which rifle will be the best for hunting or target shooting and you dont care if its built to correct fighting spec, then dont go there.

That being said. If you want a range rifle then any brand will do. If you want something to be mainly a home defense weapon then I would look at Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense and BCM.

I currently use a Bushmaster at work. It has fed and fired reliably but I have had four instances where something has broken on the rifle. ALL of the Bushmasters that my dept has bought have had some issues. We train hard with out rifles. Mandatory training puts over 1k a years through these guns. The class to be certified is a few thousand rounds in 4 days. The Colts have no problem doing this because they were made to. The Bushy rifles, while usually reliable and very accurate, dont take the abuse as well.
 
All good stuff here. Thanks again for all the helpful information. I look forward to learning more and will post back in the future when I've made a decision.
 
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