New to black powder, need advice

[Anotherguy]

My neighbor came by today and gave me a black powder revolver. I know virtually nothing about BP having never owned or even fired one before. I’d like to get some educated opinions on who manufactured it. Also, can someone point me to some websites where I could learn the basics on what I need to load and fire this thing, what powder, powder charges, projectiles? Black powder is totally new to me although I have been shooting modern firearms for years and have been reloading both pistol and rifle cartridges for about fifteen years.
From the research I have done so far I gather that it is a copy of a Remington 1858. After cleaning and inspecting the gun I would say that it is a cheap copy. Brass colored frame, blued cylinder and barrel, case colored trigger and hammer. It has a ridiculously long barrel, (my opinion) I measured 12” from the muzzle to the forcing cone. There are some markings on the frame and barrel; the letters “BI” in a square, a crest with a star over the letters, ”PN” and some cartouche that I can’t really describe accurately. On the barrel are the words,” SM BLACK POWDER ONLY CAL .44 MADE IN ITALY” I have posted some pictures below. Thanks for any help.

ETA-I just noticed the Black Powder Essentials sticky at the top of the page; very helpful. Still would like to know the manufacturer.

 

[jojosdad]

The PN means it's a Pietta, and the frame is brass. I've no experience with brass framed guns, but I've read that they can stretch if heavier loads are used regularly. I think the remmie with it's top strap isn't so prone to that though.
Just looked it up and what you have is a Texas Buffalo model. http://www.marstar.ca/gf-pietta/Pietta-1858-New-Model.shtm

 

[mike101]

I just clicked on that link. Did you see the Remmie at the bottom of the page going for $999? What the hell is that?

 

[sundance44s]

That shooters remmie for 999.00 is the one most used by the olympic shooters in the Colt Class ....Funny no one shoots a Colt in the Colt Class ..tells ya something ...I use to keep up with them , they all were shooting the Remmies and Rogers & Spencers ...Dixie sells the shooters Remmie in blue steel for around 600 bucks .

 

[mykeal]

PN is not Pietta

Sorry, jojosdad, but the PN is the mark of the Italian proof house and not Pietta. Every Italian gun gets two proof marks; one is the PN under a five point star with a garland around it, and the other is a device that looks like a crest with crossed lines under that same star/garland. They will also have the square with (usually) two letters inside. The letters are a date stamp; in Anotherguys case BI stands for 1997.

Pietta's manufacturer's mark are the letters FAP, sometimes alone and sometimes inside a diamond. Uberti is the letter U inside an outline of the muzzle of a pistol. Others include the letters dp (lower case intentional) inside an oval for Pedersoli, a palm tree inside an oval for Palmetto, the letters DGG, either alone or inside a circle for Armi San Paulo which is now Euroarms and the letters ASM for Armi San Marco.

The manufacturer's mark may be found under the loading lever near the breech end of the barrel, on the frame in front of the trigger guard or on the frame, usually on the right side.

You are correct about the "Texas Buffalo" model.

"Stretching" of a brass frame will occur regardless of the top strap if the gun is subjected to repeated use with heavy loads. The actual damage occurs to the face of the frame behind the cylinder and is caused by the cylinder recoil load. The brass is simply pounded out of shape.

The brass frame is a cosmetic feature on many guns and should not be taken as an indication of poor quality; your gun is not necessarily a "cheap" one. Many people find the brass frame attractive. The gun itself can be used and will perform just like a steel frame with the caveat that full chamber loads must be avoided to prevent damage to the frame. Brass frames will also tarnish and so require more polishing than steel frames, although many also like the tarnished brass look and let their guns age naturally to get a more authentic "antiqued" look.

 

[Misfire99]

I have a Pietta 1858 Texas Buffalo revolver. Mine looks almost exactly like the one pictured except it says F.LLI PIETTA on the right side of the barrel near the breech. The one picturd does not have this marking. This one might be made by Pietta and rebranded by another company or it could be a copy. Dixie gun works has them on sale for $175, or in kit form for $145. I'm fairly a cheap SOB and got mine on sale. Have yet to shoot it and was hoping to do that today.

 

[Snaggletooth]

The square with the BI in it means that it was made in 1997. The SMBlack powder only indicated that it was made by Armi San Marcos. I own one. It is safe to shoot 25 grains of black powder in it all the time. Ive a friend who killed a deer with his and wad loaded with 35 grains, It went all the way through at 35 Yds, The longer barrel means greater accuracy if yoy get accustomed to the weight. Plink with it using 20-25 grains and have fun. Those other marks are Proof marks and required to be on all foreigh made Pistols. The House of Gardone VT and the House of Gardone. If I'm wrong someone can correct me and I will learn also.

 

[jojosdad]

Thanks for the correction Mike. It was an assumption I had made that only proves the rule about assuming

 

[mykeal]

jojosdad - not a problem, many people have made that assumption, including a certain much younger version of myself.

 

[Anotherguy]

Thanks to all who replied. I probably never would have gained an interest in blackpowder if my neighbor hadn't given me this pistol but I can't wait to get out and shoot it now. And that sticky thread about rolling your own paper cartridges has me chomping at the bit to do so.

I have a couple more dumb questions if you'll indulge me; what diameter ball should I load with? I was looking on the Midway site today and for .44 caliber they have .433, .451 and .454 lead ball. And to make it even more confusing their is a .440 diameter ball listed as .45 caliber. Can I also shoot jacketed bullets?

 

[arcticap]

You need to use the size ball that shaves a small ring of lead as it enters the cylinder or at least swages it in snugly. Usually that's a .454, but some folks do use a .451. Measuring the chamber mouth helps to identify the best one.
You really shouldn't shoot jacket bullets out of it, pure lead is recommended and the best, especially with it having a brass frame.

I just clicked on that link. Did you see the Remmie at the bottom of the page going for $999? What the hell is that?

mike101. the Marstar prices are in Canadian dollars and need to be converted into the U.S. dollar price using their currency converter.

Judging by their currency converter, it looks like the U.S. dollar has lost more value lately.

Live rates at 2007.08.14 02:34:33 UTC
999.00 CAD = 945.907 USD
Canada Dollars United States Dollars
1 CAD = 0.946854 USD 1 USD = 1.05613 CAD

 

[barman]

PN stands for "Polvere Nera", which means black powder.

 

[Anotherguy]

PN stands for "Polvere Nera", which means black powder.

You guys are sharp. That's why I post here. You'd think I would know that being half Sicilian and half Italian.

You need to use the size ball that shaves a small ring of lead as it enters the cylinder or at least swages it in snug. Usually that a .454, but some folks do use a .451. Measuring the chamber mouth helps to identify the best one.

My chamber mouth measured .445 -.446. I guess I'll try .451 first. Thanks for that info.

 

[Shotgun Willy]

.451

Be very careful when you load. If the .451 doesn't shave off a ring of lead when it goes into the cylinder it might be too loose. If it's too loose it's possible that the balls may jump/creep forward in the cylinder after the first round is fired. A gap behind the ball and in fron of the powder is a bad thing.
Bill

 

[barman]

The marking [BI] corresponds to a year code. In that case it appears that the gun has been made in 1997.

Those markings ([PN], [BI]), along with the crest and stars were stamped by the test-fire range at Gardone in Italy.

 

[barman]

By the way, your revolver looks like a "buffalo" version of the 1858, like Pietta markets it.

It' s supposed to have a better accuracy because of the longer barrel length.
I'm not sure that it's very Historical though.

 

[eastwood44mag]

Lyman makes a very nice handbook on black powder guns and shooting. Worth picking up.

BP shooting is a ton of fun. Big puff of smoke, very little recoil compared to modern revolvers, and accuracy is unbelievable. Love the sport.

 

[Imaginos]

Send me an email, and I will respond with a set of articles I have collected on black powder revolvers. It should give you some good direction to get yu started in the right direction.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

wow you must really be on good terms w/your neighbors to receive such a nice gift. I have a steel-framed 'Buffalo' model, good shooter. I have owned 3 brass frames and ttaded/sold them off but wish I had kept one. I fired them with heavy charges some just to pracitice with my hunting load, I carried them bear hunting with ol' boys that have bear dogs. didn't seem to hurt them a bit but the BEST SHOOTING load was 22 gr. powder. after that groups began to open up. I had to stack felt wads overpowder to bring the ball up to the chamber mouth, some use fillers such as grits or cream of wheat. lot of fun to shoot and quite powerful also.

 

[Anotherguy]

Yes, my neighbors have become good friends. Unfortunately they are moving at the end of the month which is a little scary because you never know what you'll get. He owns some Japanese WWII relics, a few rifles one pistol and a sword that were all passed down from his grandfather but he doesn't shoot them they're just keepsakes. I've seen them but don't remember exactly what they are but I will be storing them for him during the move. He has an interest in guns, just doesn't own any modern firearms, yet. I took him shooting a couple weeks ago for the first time in his life, made a day of it. We shot rifles, pistols and shotgun and he's really been bitten by the bug. He's been asking lots of questions about various rifles and pistols for his future purchases. I think he may have given the 1858 to me in appreciation for the shooting outing.
I can't wait to shoot the blackpowder pistol but I'm educating myself about it first, much thanks to everyone here. Just want to be safe, it's all new to me.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

check out 'Muzzleloading Forum' run past google. you will enjoy.

 

[Misfire99]

I think i found this revolver. It looks like a traditions Bison. The sights match the traditions and are different from my Pietta Buffalo Texas model. Here is a link to it:http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=FR185812

 

[Anotherguy]

Yep, that looks like the one. The front sight on mine is different than any of the other ones I've found. The Traditions looks spot on. And it's nice to be able to download the owner's manual too. Thanks.