New to cast bullets, how are these crimps?
- Thread starter Big-bore-bob
- Start date
Hugger-4641
Member
They look good and heavy to me. Are the bullets firm in the case or can you wiggle or spin them?
Hugger-4641
Member
Pulled it up on my screen to see better and it looks like some of the crimps have flaired back a little. Others more expert with cast will reply soon, but I wonder if the bullet might need to be seated out a bit more to get the crimp in the groove better?
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Big-bore-bob
Member
They are very snug in the cases. I barely felt any resistance in the press handle crimping them. I wondered if this is too much crimp for a moderate load, and whether or not my seating depth looks correct.
IWAC
Member
I had a conversation with an RCBS tech some time ago, and he said;"Factory crimps are an overcrimp." (?) Going from that, and the fact someone else has noticed that a couple of your brass crimps have gone a skosh beyond the crimp die, which can occur through a longer case length, or an overcrimp...Don't ask how I know this...
perhaps a slightly lighter crimp might help. I know lots of reloaders take pride in never trimming their pistol brass, but I do, simply for more crimp consistency. A lot of fellows nowadays say to crimp in the middle if the cannelure, but I thought if I seated mine like you do, at the top of the crimp groove, it would keep dirt from invading the opening. But that's just me! My brother-in-Law never trimmed his .357 Magnum revolver brass and he used a 2400 load well beyond anything in the Speer #8 manual.
Truly inspiring when he would touch one off! Anyhoo, a little adjustment might help.
perhaps a slightly lighter crimp might help. I know lots of reloaders take pride in never trimming their pistol brass, but I do, simply for more crimp consistency. A lot of fellows nowadays say to crimp in the middle if the cannelure, but I thought if I seated mine like you do, at the top of the crimp groove, it would keep dirt from invading the opening. But that's just me! My brother-in-Law never trimmed his .357 Magnum revolver brass and he used a 2400 load well beyond anything in the Speer #8 manual. Truly inspiring when he would touch one off! Anyhoo, a little adjustment might help.
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Big-bore-bob
Member
I think you all are referring to the third case in from the left? These cases were previously loaded with h110 and xtp's. I put a heavy crimp on those, some definitely got over crimped on the last loading. I believe you're seeing the imprint of the crimp from the last loading. I was going to trim this off but decided against it since these are range loads. I could definitely lighten the crimp an eighth turn, and seat further out a few thousandths if it will be beneficial. Here's a picture of some sized cases from that same previous batch.
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Blue68f100
Member
You don't need that heavy of crimp for your load. Back it off and the brass will like it too. I would also extend the bullet out a little so your not at the very top.
.45Coltguy
Member
They look fine to me. Do you seat and crimp separately?
They look Ok. If you’re not getting a bulge or damaging the case behind where the bullet is seated, that’s one good sign. The next test is if they chamber and fall out freely. The last test is during shooting: don’t fire the last shot and examine the loaded round. If it handled the recoil of five rounds before without moving, it’s a strong crimp.
I wish I could advise on an easy way to crimp, but even now I always have to work into it with some finesse. I try to get it set with almost enough crimp and the bullet seated right at the rear of the crimp groove… then tighten the lock ring on the die and hopefully get the OAL and the crimp on the same try. However, this isn’t foolproof. Good news is that lead bullets are more forgiving than jacketed.
I wish I could advise on an easy way to crimp, but even now I always have to work into it with some finesse. I try to get it set with almost enough crimp and the bullet seated right at the rear of the crimp groove… then tighten the lock ring on the die and hopefully get the OAL and the crimp on the same try. However, this isn’t foolproof. Good news is that lead bullets are more forgiving than jacketed.
AJC1
Member
They are inconsistent because brass length varies or seating depth does. As was pointed out a few are curling back out. I love a heavy roll crimp, but trimming to a tight tolerance is needed. One trick is to set the crimp by the longest case.
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Big-bore-bob
Member
Yes, I seat and crimp separately.
They fall in and out of the chamber like factory ammo, no hang ups at all. I'll check the lengths of the cases on the bulk run and set my crimp on the longest case. These cases were trimmed to 1.280 when they were new. They are twice fired. Question: will seating longer a tiny bit more below the driving band give me more tolerance for case length variance? I was wondering if a miniscule gap between the mouth of the case and that top driving band is ok? It looked weird having that gap.
AJC1
Member
I can't see the shape of the crimp grove, but if the lower lip is tapered in toward the front driving band then yes. Those tapered groves will also change your oal depending on how much you crimp. I have found that cases trimmed to be uniform in length somehow become unsquare as they are reloaded. As I put them back in the trimmer set to the same 1.280 only part of the case is trimmed... I don't know why it happens but I have observed it happening.
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Big-bore-bob
Member
That's an interesting observation, I'll check for that! The coal for these rounds are ending up at 1.572 and rounds are consistent in length across the 30 rounds I loaded. Here's a picture of the bullet I'm loading.
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AJC1
Member
That's the taper I was talking about. If you load them long, a strong crimp has the force to draw the bullet down into the case.... freaked me out in 30-30 the first time it happened and I figured it out after a few hours of pondering
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Big-bore-bob
Member
Thanks for the heads up! I'll test these rounds I made up for accuracy and velocity, then I'll readjust my dies to eliminate any of the issues you all have pointed out before loading the 800 pieces of brass I've sized. Thanks for the advice! Always appreciated!
Riomouse911
Member
Looks like a fairly stout crimp to me. Those should hold when in the cylinder of a lightweight revolver, as well as prevent setback in a tubular magazine. 
Stay safe.
Stay safe.
LV Gun
Member
Your crimps look good other than a couple, best advice I can give you for 357 is trim your brass even if it is new so they are all the same length. I shoot a lot of 357 use the same bullet you use only I use W296 for powder and Winchester SPM primers . I know there is always a lot of discussion on how heavy to crimp I do a heavy crimp because I have had a bullet back out under recoil and lock up my revolver it is a pain if it happens.
41 Mag
Member
I've mentioned in other post that I usually crimp only enough to hold the bullets in place. That usually however can only be checked at the range. I have a small Lee press that I can c-clamp to just about anything and when working with a new load, I'll seat at the house and crimp at the range. I load 6 rounds with a slight crimp and start shooting. I measure the last round(s) as I shoot looking for movement. If I see any, I adjust the die slightly and run some through again. Once I can fun 10-15 rounds through and not see any movement of the last couple, I call it good and use that setting for the whole batch.
That said, after you have done several thousands you kinda get an eye for what you need. The case tension should do most of the holding, the crimp simply reinforces it. These are a couple of 454's that run in the 1600fps range,
There is a roll crimp into the groove of each and I did not readjust from the jacketed to the cast. It holds the bullets just fine in both revolvers and the rifles tubular mag.
You will also find that the amount of crimp will effect accuracy if you piddle with it enough. The biggest thing is case length which has already been mentioned. While it is a pain, and lots of folk never do it, if you're working towards accuracy, you will find consistency in your crimp to be beneficial and case length matters.
That said, after you have done several thousands you kinda get an eye for what you need. The case tension should do most of the holding, the crimp simply reinforces it. These are a couple of 454's that run in the 1600fps range,
There is a roll crimp into the groove of each and I did not readjust from the jacketed to the cast. It holds the bullets just fine in both revolvers and the rifles tubular mag.
You will also find that the amount of crimp will effect accuracy if you piddle with it enough. The biggest thing is case length which has already been mentioned. While it is a pain, and lots of folk never do it, if you're working towards accuracy, you will find consistency in your crimp to be beneficial and case length matters.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I've noticed that also.
That's the most important thing to me is the trimming. You can't have consistent crimps, consistent OALs, without consistent case lengths. Sooner or later your crimp die will start pulling bullets in on the short cases and buckling the mouth on the longer cases. I set my crimp die to the longest case when setting the dies up,
But like to keep a little bit of space below the driving band and the mouth of the case so I know I'm not pushing the driving band of the bullet against the case mouth and buckling it.
I wish someone made a micrometer crimp die for a roll crimp but I don't know if the mic would stay in place when being used. It would sure be convenient though.
I haven't
That's a good sign you did it right.
SingleActionAndrew
Member
- Joined
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Redding makes micro adjustable profile crimp die
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Big-bore-bob
Member
Well I tested the .357 loads today along with a load workup for 44 magnum using rimrock 158gr and 240gr lswc's. The results are as follows.
.357, starline cases, 158gr lswc, rem 5 1/2 primer, be86 powder, coal 1.572.
7.0gr: SD 6.6, avg vel. 1130, es 21.
7.2gr: SD 13.8, avg vel. 1148, es 43.
7.4gr: SD 16.3, avg vel. 1190, es 55.
There was leading in the barrel and a little bit in the cylinder throats. Leading cleaned up pretty easy but I'm going reduce my load under the 7.0gr to get my velocities around 1000-1050. I think 6.5gr should do it. Accuracy was about as good across the charge weights as I am. Fired cases fell out of the cylinder and were clean. I forgot my pistol rest at home and had to shoot off hand at 25 yds.
.44 magnum, starline cases, 240gr lswc, win wlp primer, be86 powder, coal 1.58.
9.5gr, SD 16, avg vel 1093, es 59.
10gr, SD 11, avg vel 1134, es 37.
10.5gr, SD 13, avg vel 1169, es 47.
Leading was pretty bad and took longer to scrub out of the barrel and cylinder throats than the .357 loads. Mabye my throats are tight in the 44. Accuracy was comparable to the .357. Cases fell out of the cylinder with ease and primers looked excellent. Cases were clean. My crimp needs to be tighter, I has some bullet pull on the last round in the cylinder. I'll most likely reduce this load to 8.5gr to try and achieve 850 to 900fps.
.357, starline cases, 158gr lswc, rem 5 1/2 primer, be86 powder, coal 1.572.
7.0gr: SD 6.6, avg vel. 1130, es 21.
7.2gr: SD 13.8, avg vel. 1148, es 43.
7.4gr: SD 16.3, avg vel. 1190, es 55.
There was leading in the barrel and a little bit in the cylinder throats. Leading cleaned up pretty easy but I'm going reduce my load under the 7.0gr to get my velocities around 1000-1050. I think 6.5gr should do it. Accuracy was about as good across the charge weights as I am. Fired cases fell out of the cylinder and were clean. I forgot my pistol rest at home and had to shoot off hand at 25 yds.
.44 magnum, starline cases, 240gr lswc, win wlp primer, be86 powder, coal 1.58.
9.5gr, SD 16, avg vel 1093, es 59.
10gr, SD 11, avg vel 1134, es 37.
10.5gr, SD 13, avg vel 1169, es 47.
Leading was pretty bad and took longer to scrub out of the barrel and cylinder throats than the .357 loads. Mabye my throats are tight in the 44. Accuracy was comparable to the .357. Cases fell out of the cylinder with ease and primers looked excellent. Cases were clean. My crimp needs to be tighter, I has some bullet pull on the last round in the cylinder. I'll most likely reduce this load to 8.5gr to try and achieve 850 to 900fps.
